Is HTML 5 better than World Peace and sliced bread combined?

Just what the * is this:

Web-connected and web-powered apps built using HTML5 and JavaScript have access to the power of the PC

http://www.buildwindows.com/

 

Has Tim Berners-Lee taken over the Windows division? HTML 5 "apps"?!

Every damn Browser with a userbase of more than 100 people can run HTML5 (or parts of it) nowadays.

I don't get Microsoft here at all. I would say MS has the best OS APIs in the market (silverlight, WPF, .net) and they are advertising their new OS by pointing out HTML 5 "apps"? I don't get it.

Every Linux distro with Firefox 4 can browse HTML5 web pages too. It's not an exclusive feature, not even an exciting one by any means.

It's like advertising a PC by pointing out that it supports USB and DVI.

I hear the new Windows 8 SDK comes with a fleshlight, so that older developers can go f themselves.

-Josh

Forgetting computers, remember that selling a product is 99.99% marketing.  Imagine if you are stuck with the task of selling a mediocre product.  Do you advertise it as "just average in quality", "keeps on running and takes a beating" or do you go for something a bit more exciting?

 

People often confuse Microsoft with a software development company.  They are a marketing company that happens to own a software division.  They excel at marketing their products.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Desktop

Not again please...... no no no....

 

@figuerres: When PointCast first came out, I remember it being really cool. If all Microsoft did was to copy it, they would have been all set. But, Active Desktop totally screwed up whatever computer it was activated on. I guess that was before the days of quality control in software.

-Josh

2 minutes ago, lensman wrote

Forgetting computers, remember that selling a product is 99.99% marketing.  Imagine if you are stuck with the task of selling a mediocre product.  Do you advertise it as "just average in quality", "keeps on running and takes a beating" or do you go for something a bit more exciting?

 

People often confuse Microsoft with a software development company.  They are a marketing company that happens to own a software division.  They excel at marketing their products.

It's a popular saying, but it's wrong. Microsoft's marketing sucks. Not always, but quite often.

Google and Apple are far better in this regard (and more hyped up).
And this is again a classic case - they are advertising a commodity!

Everything that can run a browser is running HTML5. It's a complete dead end to put all your eggs in the HTML5 basket.

I could understand it, if Microsoft intents to pull a "Embrace&Extend.." with HTML5. But I don't think this is the case, MS seems to be believably tired of all the lawsuits and I don't think they want to relive that experience again.

So yes, I am totally baffled.

Being able to execute HTML and Javascript is the LAMEST feature in a tech product that I can think of.

The big complain I have is they love to keep backward compatibility when they are using a technology they don't have total control over it. It is totally fine for Windows and DX backward compatibility because they have full control over it. They can evolve it without breaking BC. But, they don't own HTML, so HTML always evolves in a way that will break BC. And since they love BC, they don't evolve HTML as trade off. Then, you get this HTML web dev bashing all over the places.

In short, Win8 embraces HTML5 and will screw HTML6 in the future.

3 minutes ago, JoshRoss wrote

I hear the new Windows 8 SDK comes with a fleshlight, so that older developers can go f themselves.

-Josh

I'd be really scared to look under my seat at the BUILD conference if I were going.

a moment ago, DCMonkey wrote

*snip*

I'd be really scared to look under my seat at the BUILD conference if I were going.

Don't worry, it will be this http://www.fleshlight.com/ XD, which is also what Josh's spelling refering to.

5 minutes ago, wastingtime​withforums wrote

*snip*

I could understand it, if Microsoft intents to pull a "Embrace&Extend.." with HTML5. But I don't think this is the case, MS seems to be believably tired of all the lawsuits and I don't think they want to relive that experience again.

So yes, I am totally baffled.

I think that Microsoft have just finally accepted that they can no longer win by simply having a better API. Applications are rapidly becoming a web-based thing and the native API of the client becomes less relevant.

Where they can win is by simply doing HTML5 better than everybody else. The development pace between IE8 and IE9 is staggering, nobody else can even hope to compete at that level. If they can keep that rate up, everyone else in the browser space (and by extension the OS space) is just going to become irrelevant.

@AndyC:

3 minutes ago, AndyC wrote

*snip*

Where they can win is by simply doing HTML5 better than everybody else. The development pace between IE8 and IE9 is staggering, nobody else can even hope to compete at that level. If they can keep that rate up, everyone else in the browser space (and by extension the OS space) is just going to become irrelevant.

They can't do HTML5 "better than everybody else".

Because it's a total standard function. It's like taking a nap better than everybody else. Who cares in the long run?

Makes no sense at all. HTML 5 is a static entity. You can't add any exclusive features to it, without creating a sh*tstorm that is. And any new features in HTML are open to all your competitors.

Yes, maybe Microsoft's HTML renderer is the fastest, well, that gap will be closed, rather sooner than later.. After the gap is closed, they will have no unique features. Nothing that can't be immediately replicated at least.

Take into account the glacial speed of the HTML standardization process. I won't be surprised if HTML 6 will be released in the middle of the next decade. Once HTML5 will be complete, it won't take long until all the browser will implement all the features. MS will have no unique selling point then at all for a LONG time if they concentrate this much on HTML 5.

5 minutes ago, magicalclick wrote

*snip*

Don't worry, it will be this http://www.fleshlight.com/ XD, which is also what Josh's spelling refering to.

Oh I know what it is. That's why I'd be scared.

15 minutes ago, wastingtime​withforums wrote

Makes no sense at all. HTML 5 is a static entity. You can't add any exclusive features to it, without creating a sh*tstorm that is. And any new features in HTML are open to all your competitors.

Apple's done pretty well out of it: they added 3D transforms and animation/transitions to CSS3 without any backlash and because they used the vendor-prefix it means other UAs can't make proper use of them until it's standardised. I've made a few pretty iPhone-esque UIs for web applications using CSS3's features.

I know Microsoft came out with some pretty nifty extensions to CSS2 back in 2000/2001 (filter, expressions, behaviours, etc), they should run with them instead of disabling them in IE9's Standards Mode.

You don't get it.

They're comparing this to Win95 because they are breaking compatibility with new applications.

Just as Win 3.x couldn't run many Win32 apps on the 95 platform all previous Windows applications will be broken by these apps. Thus people will be forced to upgrade.

All MS has to do is extend HTML and JS with a couple proprietary extensions, and I'm sure there are more than a couple, and it will make it so that the apps don't run in Chrome or any other similar system.

A lot of people around the world still run XP(The last system that was truly easy to pirate) even with Windows 7 out. They've canceled the genuine advantage system recently for example.

They're trying to break people's spirits and force them to spend. You will follow them no matter what because that's what you all do.

Pretty soon no new apps will work in the 3rd world. That's what they're aiming for.

16 minutes ago, wastingtime​withforums wrote

@AndyC:

*snip*

They can't do HTML5 "better than everybody else".

Because it's a total standard function. It's like taking a nap better than everybody else. Who cares in the long run?

Of course they can. There are plenty of bits of HTML5 which their competition, despite having touted HTML5 support for so much longer, have terribly buggy implementations of. It's easy to say "the competition will soon catch up" but I'm not at all convinced that's actually the truth.

And when developers use those features and other browsers/platforms don't implement them as well (or just plain wrong) they care. You only have to look at the constant backlash at IE6 to see that - indeed if IE hadn't had such a large market share the big names would have dumped support for it even earlier than they did.

If there needs to be any more proof that desktop apps are dead, this is it.

6 minutes ago, beerinbelgi​um wrote

 

All MS has to do is extend HTML and JS with a couple proprietary extensions, and I'm sure there are more than a couple, and it will make it so that the apps don't run in Chrome or any other similar system.

I know you're probably full of beer, but I've talked about that point already in this thread:

 

I could understand it, if Microsoft intents to pull a "Embrace&Extend.." with HTML5. But I don't think this is the case, MS seems to be believably tired of all the lawsuits and I don't think they want to relive that experience again.

MS worked very hard in the last years to give a new image to IE and everything that is related to it. No way they will pull an EEE with HTML 5.

It would be totally schizo; all the hard work with IE would be for nothing. The resulting negativity would make Vista look good.

Microsoft no longer has any anti-trust oversight in the USA. Plus I doubt they'll get in trouble for something literally every other browser maker does.