So I've been looking at Windows Phone 7. As an iPhone user(I love my phone), my biggest quirk is that the programming model sucks(Objective C is only used on the apple platform, and it's a nasty language), and that in order for me to make applications, I need to PAY Apple. And I can't deploy any applications to my phone without putting it on the market-place.

Along comes Windows Phone 7. It uses my favorite language and IDE, and it doesn't look all that bad.

Now, investing time and money into a new application model is a pretty big deal. And given that in order to run an application on the phone, you have to submit it through Microsoft, just like with Apple. That means in order for me to write programs that I'd wanna use, I'd have to support it in case other people wants to buy it. 

That leads to following question: Is Windows Phone 7 gonna be adapted widely enough that it's a worthwhile investment? Gartner estimates that WP7 will be the 6th most used Mobile Platform, which is not very encouraging. 

So how the hell does one justify spending time on WP7? The success of the Windows Platform is based on the fact that good tools are readily available, and you can execute any program on any computer that runs Windows. But given that it's my understanding that this will not be the case on WP7, but that Microsoft has to approve your application, then how is WP7 not gonna fail against other platforms?

I got no relations to Novell or the Mono people (just a fan of Mono), but I feel like I should mention you can actually do iPhone development in C# with MonoTouch. You can also write iPhone apps in Flash/Flex now.

5 minutes ago, Bass wrote

I don't think anyone can really answer that question in a satisfactory manner. I assume Microsoft hopes it will succeed.

I got no relations to Novell or the Mono people (just a fan of Mono), but I feel like I should mention you can actually do iPhone development in C# with MonoTouch. You can also write iPhone apps in Flash/Flex now.

Maybe I've missed something?

How do I justify spending time on WP7?  Best answer for me is I want to write some private apps for my phone, but I don't want to have to buy a mac to do it.  Everyone will have have their own answer; for some it will make sense, others it won't.  Just look
at want you want to achieve and make the best decision based on the information you have to hand.  For my work, it's looks like we won't have an option but to write the same app in iOS, WP7, Android, and maybe  WM6.X if we ever go that route.

first of all, you can get a dev device quite easily, if you have an app you want to develop. registering with the dev program costs $99 and that gives you the ability to sideload apps on your device and all the certification/code signing when you want to sell something in the marketplace.

with the registration , you get the ability to put a limited number of free apps (don't remember how many) and unlimited paid apps. I have yet to verify this (just registered Saturday and I'm out of town now) but I remember something about doing limited betas with friends.

By the way, this has been posted from an LG dev device running build 7003

I've yet to find where to register for a developer device though. Also, I'm just a person, not an actual company, so I can't register for the market-place as I have not VAT numbers and stuff.

I happen to have an idea for an app (which I have started to write), so I may well have an app-store registration anyway, but it's still irksome!

Herbie

Everything else is just a guess. When gartner estimates the wp7 will become the 6th most used mobile platform then this is nothing more than a guess. They have no idea how windows phone 7 will be adapted because nobody does at this point of time.

You can keep in mind however that investing time into developing apps for windows phone 7 means investing time in .net, c# and silverlight and/or xna. And this is an investment very much worthwile because it means you can target your application for windows and for the xbox as well. And this is a very big market already.

Justify:  a client who will pay you to write an application.

right now that's the *ONLY* way i would do it.

first of all, you can get a dev device quite easily, if you have an app you want to develop.

4 hours ago, PaoloM wrote

Yup, easily. I got an email from a Twitter thread, emailed, got redirected to my local Dev evangelist, exchanged a couple of emails detailing my app design intentions and got a device fedexed overnight. Did you email the Dev rep with the details of your app?

So you have to convince a person, who might not even respond to your email, that your application is a good idea, in order for you to get a dev-device?

See, I can't commit to actually ever releasing anything. I'm just a hobbyist with some spare-time who wants to write for a mobile platform.

Herbie

And I also laid everything out in an email to said wp7req address, plus future ideas.

I think Microsoft need to

1.       Get a better marketing department. They really do have the world’s worst marketing department don’t they!

2.       Give a phone to whoever wants one. I know there pockets are only so deep. But they need to get the phone in people’s hands and I mean a lot of people. Maybe A “trade you old phone for a windows Mobile 7” campaign.

Don’t get me wrong i really want to develop for this phone. And I probably will. But I can only go so far without the hardware. Am i prepared to spend money on a phone? If there’re a couple of hundred pounds then maybe but anything over that not until I
can see a return in my investment. (My daughter has more disposable income than I do and she’s only 15) I also sent an email and never heard anything, but at this stage I don’t think Microsoft can be to choosy.

Just my 2c worth

Johnny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3fLPgJX7g0

Earlier I was hacking away on a mobile DJing application, until I randomly felt the urge to actually benchmark the MP3 decoder written in C# that I was using (no APIs to use the very likely way faster system codecs), ending up with 7x decode speed on actual
computer hardware. And the application needed to run up to four decoding instances (two decks playing and rendering a proxy for displaying ahead of time), _on the phone_. I'm glad I didn't go ahead, because that'd have been a futile exercise.

http://storageserver.be/images/pocketdj.jpg

Now I feel that the FFT and bitmap generation has a similar effect. Because the app bar opening and closing animations jitter when the application's active. But hey, how do I test this, apart from real hardware?

--edit: What is it with the post editor inserting blank lines left and right?!

You can fully develop a Window Phone 7 application that runs in the emulator on your machine, you you have a rich environment as a hobbyist. If you then think the world needs the application, then you can look at taking the steps to release it.

That way, when someone browses the WP7 application store, they are guaranteed a high quality experience, I lose attention after 5 minutes on Google's Android marketplace.

Look at codeplex, sourceforge or codeproject. There is a lot of good stuff there almost drowned by pet projects and incomplete "hobbyists" projects. This is way of having a measure of quality control, however frustrating, it will result in a far better end user experience.

This is the reason why,for instance, Dr Herbie suscribes to Visual Studio magazine, to get well thought out and written articles, as apposed to the half baked badly written material in the blogoshere.

I expect this is to prevent a 'side load' market from springing up, but I think they should give some regard to the hobbyist market.  Currently, I believe, students can unlock a single phone for free (and put apps on the market for free).  They should give
a free 'hobbyist' license where you can unlock a single phone, but you can't use the market.  This will allow people to write apps for their own personal use on their own phones. The license would enable MS to keep track of the hobbyists and perhaps even sign apps with the license details so they know where they originated from.

Herbie

On the other hand, unless Microsoft prohibits applications that run "plugins", I can see some application acting as assembly downloader and launcher, to sideload stuff. Actually, I think they're going to prevent this really hard from reaching the marketplace.

It would be nice to facilitate hobbyists installing applications on their own phones, but this early on in the game, they should concentrate on bigger business, as they are the ones most likely to create applications that the masses will use, consequently, exacerbating the aggrandisement of the platform.

There will always be hobbyists that go on to make a million, maybe even 10 million, but if you are a hobbyist, and create a good application that you feel can sell, then it is well worth raising the fee (that is what hosting a website would cost).

With cloud computing etc. Microsoft is trying to become the 'web-host for the world' for desktop, web and mobile platforms, with the subscription feature
central to the realisation of their goals.

Microsoft as you are no doubt aware always tend to make commercial decisions first, then worry about hobbyists afterwards.

4 hours ago, Dr Herbie wrote

@vesuvius:  While I agree that putting a price on entry to the app store will keep the quality bar high, I don't like that I cannot write apps for
myself without paying MS an annual fee.

I expect this is to prevent a 'side load' market from springing up, but I think they should give some regard to the hobbyist market.  Currently, I believe, students can unlock a single phone for free (and put apps on the market for free).  They should give
a free 'hobbyist' license where you can unlock a single phone, but you can't use the market.  This will allow people to write apps for their own personal use on their own phones. The license would enable MS to keep track of the hobbyists and perhaps even sign apps with the license details so they know where they originated from.

Herbie

XNA club is 90bucks a year, and still tons and tons of indie games on XBL. I think the encouragement is, don't make an app for yourself, make an app for the community.

I'd start writing applications to sell in a heart-beat, but given the fact that all predictions says that the adoption of WP7 will be rather low, I do not have confidence in the platform to take off, enough that it's worth me spending time on supporting an application that was only intended to be an application for me, even if I'm sure other people would like it.

It's a chicken and egg problem.

I've been doing a little contract work and filling in the gaps with app development for WP7 & I have to say it has been great fun! 

I don't anticipate making 'a lot' of money from the apps, but I believe the platform has a secure future and is worth investing in.  I'm also hopeful that the marketplace will expand onto the forthcoming new Windows Tablets - so there will be additional opportunities for developers there.. 

And eventually the Corporate world will catch up and the result will be plenty of opportunities for Silverlight developers!

IMO The traditional PC/Laptop market is on the decline, mobiles & sleek tablets are the future!

Yes, I've always been an optimist!