New Kinect licensing

From the official blog:

Although we encourage all developers to understand and take advantage of the additional features and updates available with the new Kinect for Windows hardware and accompanying software, those developers using our SDK and the Kinect for Xbox 360 hardware may continue to use these in their development activities if they wish.  However, non-commercial deployments using Kinect for Xbox 360 that were allowed using the beta SDK are not permitted with the newly released software. Non-commercial deployments using the new runtime and SDK will require the fully tested and supported Kinect for Windows hardware and software platform, just as commercial deployments do. Existing non-commercial deployments using our beta SDK may continue using the beta and the Kinect for Xbox 360 hardware; to accommodate this, we are extending the beta license for three more years, to June 16, 2016.  

So let me get this straight: if you're a hobbyist, you have to buy the new hardware now, or you can't deploy your stuff? Are they effectively telling the huge Kinect dev community who are using the existing hardware and have released many amazing Kinect applications in little over a year to stop doing that and buy new Kinects?

Not questioning the sentiment but my guess is that the motives behind the new PC Kinect hardware and SDK is as much about quality control as anything else.

I'm guessing it's partially that and partially the fact that the 360 Kinects were intended to be subsidized by the games sold for them, which means selling at a loss if they're only used for PC development.

I don't doubt their reasoning there, but what I think is ill-advised is praising developers for the Kinect Effect, and in the same blog post thanking them for that succes by telling them to replace all their stuff with new devices that will cost them $250 a piece, or no more innovating for you.

@Bas: And not just buy a new one, but buy a new one at apparently twice the price of an XBox Kinect ...

Not sure what's going on here.

Herbie

Come on guys, heavily subsidised to get market traction works with XBOX because the renumeration is through the purchase of games.

The PC market just isn't like that (although a little piece of it will be after Windows 8 gets launched I guess).  But even then bottom line is the price of PC applications has largely fallen through the floor as a result of the whole phone app store thing. 

Thats the downside, the upside is that there are much better opportunities for distribution and making money based on volume sales (at least in theory).

Anyways $250 isn't really a barrier nowadays even if it is just a hobby.

@Bas: The existing beta SDK never granted commercial licensing. They did extend the period for non-commercial licensing to 2016 if you want to keep using the beta SDK. So hobbyists wanting to use Kinect for Xbox for non-commercial purposes can continue to do so using the beta SDK.

Like I said, I understand the higher price. What I don't understand is why they're thanking all Kinect Developers by giving them the finger and telling them to spend another $250 on top of what they've already spent for each Kinect device they need, or stop contributing to Kinect´s succes.

Anyways $250 isn't really a barrier nowadays even if it is just a hobby.

Uh, speak for yourself there, pal.

18 seconds ago, Bas wrote

Like I said, I understand the higher price. What I don't understand is why they're thanking all Kinect Developers by giving them the finger and telling them to spend another $250 on top of what they've already spent for each Kinect device they need, or stop contributing to Kinect´s succes.

 

*snip*

Uh, speak for yourself there, pal.

The $250 purchase grants you the ability to develop and test commercial applications and royalty-free distribution rights of that software.

3 minutes ago, cbae wrote

@Bas: The existing beta SDK never granted commercial licensing. They did extend the period for non-commercial licensing to 2016 if you want to keep using the beta SDK. So hobbyists wanting to use Kinect for Xbox for non-commercial purposes can continue to do so using the beta SDK.

You´re right, I should rephrase. People have a choice between handing over $250 per device or continue to use beta drivers and the beta SDK. What a way to show how much you appreciate your dev community!

@Bas:I'm not "working" at the moment so I'm not flush with money but if I really wanted the new Kinect I would find something to sell on eBay or something

BTW This is what I am doing until someone comes along who is prepared to pay my "extortionate" asking price for contract work: http://websurfaces.co.uk/2012/01/10/app-roadmap/  (and don't be thinking I am making lots of money developing Phone apps).

In related news MS are offering the device to educational users for only $149

Later this year, we will offer special academic pricing (planned at US $149) for Qualified Educational Users.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006UIS53K/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=itwriting-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B006UIS53K

No sign of it yet on the Amaon UK  but I am guessing £199 - sheesh - though todays exchange rate is 160.78 + VAT = 189.00 GBP or therebouts

2 hours ago, Bas wrote

*snip*

You´re right, I should rephrase. People have a choice between handing over $250 per device or continue to use beta drivers and the beta SDK. What a way to show how much you appreciate your dev community!

Sounds like only "existing non-commercial deployments" can continue to use the beta SDK.

6 hours ago, Bas wrote

From the official blog:

*snip*

So let me get this straight: if you're a hobbyist, you have to buy the new hardware now, or you can't deploy your stuff? Are they effectively telling the huge Kinect dev community who are using the existing hardware and have released many amazing Kinect applications in little over a year to stop doing that and buy new Kinects?

The $250 is only for the Kinect for XBox 360 - it's still free for Windows (aside from the hardware, obviously):

"We have chosen a hardware-only business model for Kinect for Windows, which means that we will not be charging for the SDK or the runtime; these will be available free to developers and end-users respectively."

It's too bad Kinect hardware is so expensive.  I had a pretty good idea for a product that would act as a burglar alarm and/or elderly shut-in monitor.  Currently, this stuff can be done with standard motion sensors, but if the kinect was used, it might be better able to tell if the 'intruder' is a family pet or if grandma is limping.

I thought the Xbox Kinect was sold at a profit. Isn't that something someone from Microsoft claimed way back when? I guess not enough of a profit?

6 minutes ago, Bass wrote

I thought the Xbox Kinect was sold at a profit. Isn't that something someone from Microsoft claimed way back when? I guess not enough of a profit?

Probably not enough to cover the development cost of the SDK. It would be one thing if the only two platforms you could use the device on were Xbox or Windows, but there are going to be tons of commercial applications for Linux and OSX as well so they can't sell the device at just break even.

9 hours ago, Richard.Hein wrote

*snip*

The $250 is only for the Kinect for XBox 360 - it's still free for Windows (aside from the hardware, obviously):

"We have chosen a hardware-only business model for Kinect for Windows, which means that we will not be charging for the SDK or the runtime; these will be available free to developers and end-users respectively."

Sorry, I was wrong and I totally misunderstood ... I re-read the blog post.  You're totally right Bas it seems unfair to force developers to pay for the new Kinect if they don't want to.  However cbae is right in saying there never was a license to distribute any commercial software for Kinect for XBox 360 to begin with.  However, ultimately you'll need to test a commercial application with the Kinect for Windows if you are making a commercial application, in order to test it.   Certainly, they aren't compatible, so I guess it's justified, accounting for R&D and perhaps higher hardware costs due to new components. 

I wish they'd bundle up multiple Kinects into a package deal ... like 5 for $499.

23 minutes ago, Richard.Hein wrote

*snip*

I wish they'd bundle up multiple Kinects into a package deal ... like 5 for $499.

If you wanted to purchase 5, you could probably qualify for volume licensing, But you'd probably to take an exam first to establish that you understand the terms.