Unbelievable.

Julie Larson-Green ?? Tami Reller ?? OMG

http://allthingsd.com/20121112/breaking-windows-head-steven-sinofsky-to-leave-microsoft/?mod=tweet

Boy, I sure didn't see that coming.

I cannot pretend I am sad about the passing of the torch. I have been persona non grata with the Windows division for the entire time that Sinofsky ran it. Many long-time Microsoft employees, managers and testers have expressed similar sentiments, mostly in private. Here's hoping to better days, in terms of how the Windows client team interacts with all of its constituents: Its customers, partners and us Microsoft watchers.

https://twitter.com/panopticoncntrl/status/268181797584633857

Herbie 

@EveryoneElseOtherThanTheTrollAbove:

Not sure how I feel Steven going. On the one hand he sure did a hell of a job fixing WinDiv after Jim Allchin's disastrous Longhorn/Vista debacle. On the other hand he was apparently hard to work for/with. Julie Larson-Green is a smart cookie, but something is telling me that this is a stop gap measure and there's more changes coming.

No matter what has happened, Fired/Retired/Mutual/Ballmer threw a chair at him, it's really not good to loose him so soon after Windows 8 and Surface launch like this - very bad from a PR perspective and the trolls are going to go on a feeding frenzy (as we can see above).

And there's no way Scott Gu moves into his position - or at least he better not....!

1 hour ago, OrigamiCar wrote

and the trolls are going to go on a feeding frenzy (as we can see above).

You've got to pardon us trolls though. These news are just too delicious food to resist.

1 hour ago, OrigamiCar wrote 

@EveryoneElseOtherThanTheTrollAbove:

Not sure how I feel Steven going. On the one hand he sure did a hell of a job fixing WinDiv after Jim Allchin's disastrous Longhorn/Vista debacle.

Overrated. Aside from the new taskbar, what's the big deal with Windows 7? I can't find any. Can you? Be honest! Most performance issues and bugs of Vista were fixed in SP1 and 2 already.

Windows 7 is mostly just Vista with a new taskbar and with bug-fixes already baked in. Sinofsky got way too much credit for that. Just look what the man did when his "vision" got free-reign: He put a pretty much unmodified touch-first mobile interface on desktops.. on purpose. Coupled with _multiple_ update mechanisms and control panels. How's that better than the accidental bugs in Vista?! Also, by beginning of 2006, it seemed as if the Windows guys got their * together anyway.

5 hours ago, MasterPie wrote

The sad part is when people will try to spin this as representative of Windows 8/Surface sales...

No spin involved, Visual Studio 2012 sales have plummeted. Jason Zander leaving Visual Studio was the warning sign. Sinofsky has made powerful enemies, both within (Developer Division) and outside Microsoft

1 hour ago, vesuvius wrote

Visual Studio 2012 sales have plummeted.

Source?

8 hours ago, MasterPie wrote

The sad part is when people will try to spin this as representative of Windows 8/Surface sales...

As much as I hate Windows 8, even I got to admit that the thing is still too recent to project sales for the holiday season and beyond.

I've read some interesting comment on mini-msft:

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the EU mess yet. Sinofski was given responsibility by the board for ensuring that MS stayed compliant with the agreement regarding browser choice in Windows. Now, MS is facing a possible 10 BILLION dollar enema by the EU because Sinofski couldn't be bothered by something as trivial as a check box in Windows. Good riddance.

Sinofsky was responsible for the browser's choice dialogue, really? If yes, then wow, he botched this with W7 SP1 badly.

I guess he thought that Windows 7 was "dead" by this point anyway (like 7's gadgets) so why bother..

My personal hope is that now things at Microsoft can begin to move away from the new 'Apple way of doing things' (which I suspect he may have been behind?).

That said, I do wish him well. 

Congrats to Julie Larson-Green!

6 hours ago, OrigamiCar wrote

@DeathByVisualStudio: I think you should get the job Death. Show us what an AMAZING job you would do with Windows 9, you clearly have all the answers... They spew from your orifices every time you post here...

 

@EveryoneElseOtherThanTheTrollAbove:

...

Dude, seriously? You directly get on someone's case who hasn't even posted to this thread and call that person a troll? That entire paragraph is trollish behavior and everyone knows it.

The bright side .

1.  Start Button comes back.  Stupid to take it out for no good reason.  Sinofsky?

2.  Desktop ignored.  Make a good tablet but dont mess with the best thing to come out of Microsoft . The desktop.   Bring back 3D and make buttons look like buttons.  Flat sucks. If Sinofsky stayed any longer we would be back to playing a black and white version of Pong.

3.  Other groups get some love.  Yes windows is important but so is xbox, office, azure, server products, business apps (vesivus lets bring back WPF/silverlight),  embedded apps (I do them and although they are not a high visibility app but used in suprising places).

4.  Timing is right for Bill Gates to come back.   I think he has already wiped out some diseases.  No disease is spreading more than the Applism.  It needs to be wiped out.

5.  There are some very bright guys at Microsoft and they need to have some more power.  Hopefully this will create a new openness and maybe like Ian said some true leadership and not following the crowd attitude.

53 seconds ago, RobGreenly wrote

Microsoft had a genuine chance of having the next Steve Jobs in their rank, and jealousy raised its ugly head.

The poor-man's Steve Jobs maybe.

*snip*

The poor-man's Steve Jobs maybe.

31 minutes ago, SteveRichter wrote

I do not think Office is very good at all. It is certainly brutal as a programming platform.

You're aware that before 2009, Sinofsky was the Office guy?

31 minutes ago, SteveRichter wrote

At least Sinofsky appeared to have advanced the windows OS with WinRT and siloing of apps.

WinRT is even less powerful than WPF in its current state. So.. And the "apps"? Wake me up when Office gets ported, which will take a while, a long while, I guess. Freeware like Bluestacks offers a more sane way to run these kind of "apps" on full-fledged PCs than what Sinofsky did. "Yes, ma'am, this sorry ad-ridden weather gadget thingie needs to occupy the whole 23 inch screen!"

What should have been done long ago is finally implemening a sane, standardized update-process for desktop programs (you know, the ones 99.9% of the Windows users depend on), without relying on a myriad background services.

With the store, this could have been done quite easily, but the SinMan decided not to.

2 hours ago, TexasToast wrote

Well when I did NOT see him at Build I thought it was very weird and I asked where he was?   I think he did his job but he did screw up alot of things with his stubborn attitude.

The bright side .

1.  Start Button comes back.  Stupid to take it out for no good reason.  Sinofsky?

2.  Desktop ignored.  Make a good tablet but dont mess with the best thing to come out of Microsoft . The desktop.   Bring back 3D and make buttons look like buttons.  Flat sucks. If Sinofsky stayed any longer we would be back to playing a black and white version of Pong.

3.  Other groups get some love.  Yes windows is important but so is xbox, office, azure, server products, business apps (vesivus lets bring back WPF/silverlight),  embedded apps (I do them and although they are not a high visibility app but used in suprising places).

4.  Timing is right for Bill Gates to come back.   I think he has already wiped out some diseases.  No disease is spreading more than the Applism.  It needs to be wiped out.

5.  There are some very bright guys at Microsoft and they need to have some more power.  Hopefully this will create a new openness and maybe like Ian said some true leadership and not following the crowd attitude.

1. Why do we need a start button? Windows key, hardware button, swipe from right click Start, click lower left corner on desktop. Are four options not enough?

2. I actually prefer the new flat appearance on the desktop. But sure, put the old Vista-era Aero as an option. Should we include Luna too?

3. How are they not getting love? Xbox has a new machine coming out next year and had major dashboard updates recently. Office just had a new version come out. Azure had a whole keynote speech dedicated to it at Build. Server/Tools is always busy working on new stuff.

4. Gates is the reason Microsoft is so far behind. He could not get past slapping the same old desktop UI on everything. I'd rather he stay with his charity.

5. I do agree with this. MS needs to dump their performance evaluation system and start letting the guys in Microsoft Research have a bit more power over the direction of the company. Ballmer needs to step down and someone who is more of an engineer and less of a salesman needs to be CEO.

9 hours ago, OrigamiCar wrote

@DeathByVisualStudio: I think you should get the job Death. Show us what an AMAZING job you would do with Windows 9, you clearly have all the answers... They spew from your orifices every time you post here...

 

Awww... my post was deleted. It has such a sad short life.

Just waiting for the call from Microsoft... Thanks Origami for the vote of confidence. Can I use you as a reference?

9 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

*snip*

1. Why do we need a start button? Windows key, hardware button, swipe from right click Start, click lower left corner on desktop. Are four options not enough?

Why do you need forks and knives? You have fingers, feet, teeth (can't you just move your head down?!), chopsticks.. Are four options not enough?

9 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

2. I actually prefer the new flat appearance on the desktop. But sure, put the old Vista-era Aero as an option. Should we include Luna too?

Why using ubiquitous 3D acclerators when I prefer the DOS look?

9 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

4. Gates is the reason Microsoft is so far behind. He could not get past slapping the same old desktop UI on everything. I'd rather he stay with his charity.

Oh, ok, this is a logic test I guess. it apparently goes like this:

Putting desktop UIs on phones is bad, BUT putting phone GUIs on desktops is a winner! Who knew. Have they included this one in intelligence tests around the world already? I am sure you could filter out the losers from the stars with this one once and for all.

Anyways, I think Sinofsky made a lot of mistakes but really did a great job overall, and Windows 8 and Surface is a culmination of more than a decade of R&D and a solid vision of how the ecosystem should interoperate.  It was hard to see, now it's easy to see that it will work out very nicely.  Those of you who haven't tried Windows RT with a tablet or touch screen ... you're missing out ... believe me I wasn't too keen on it until I got ahold of a Surface RT.  

I am inclined to believe Sinofsky when he says it's his choice, only because it is so soon after the launch of Windows 8 and Surface that I find it hard to imagine that Ballmer was so impatient and willing to stir things up at this time.  Perhaps he decided he was going to move on because Ballmer isn't going to hand over the reins and he's finally accepted that.  Maybe he's just tired of 23 years of trying to get people to do what he wants. Maybe he wants to leave on a high note. 

1.  I don't need it but a lot of customers Want it.  Why not please your customers?

2.  We had flat appearance in DOS.   Do you like bell bottom jeans too?

3.  Sinofsky was not listening to others and helping them work their ideas on windows 8.  This is especially true for Line of Biz apps being killed by a WPF Silverlight strategy that developers liked. 

4.  Gates was the reason Microsoft was successful.  He might not have been cutting edge on everything but he was persistent.   The ship is steady and not very fast but it will not sink.

5.  Agree 100%.   They have some teams and people with no slackers and you cannot cut the bottom 10% just as a policy.   They need to reinvigorate dev teams again.

a Julie Larson video from 2008 demoing touch on a PC.  My immediate question is why has she not been able to get touch accepted on the desktop for 4 years now?  Why expect it to be something people want now?

http://minimsft.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/a-microsoft-without-sinofsky.html

there was also a video of JulieLar on Channel 9

http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/WM_IN/Julie-Larson-Green-Leading-by-Example-Managing-the-Windows-Experience

3 hours ago, SteveRichter wrote

What has Julie Green done that qualifies her for such a high position in the company? 

Put on your "regular user" hat for a few minutes and you'll see how perfect Windows 8 is. My wife is still draining the battery daily on her Vivo Tab. I have heard zero complaints from her.

Touch is the future. Accept it and embrace it.

1 hour ago, TexasToast wrote

@spivonious:

1.  I don't need it but a lot of customers Want it.  Why not please your customers?

2.  We had flat appearance in DOS.   Do you like bell bottom jeans too?

3.  Sinofsky was not listening to others and helping them work their ideas on windows 8.  This is especially true for Line of Biz apps being killed by a WPF Silverlight strategy that developers liked. 

4.  Gates was the reason Microsoft was successful.  He might not have been cutting edge on everything but he was persistent.   The ship is steady and not very fast but it will not sink.

5.  Agree 100%.   They have some teams and people with no slackers and you cannot cut the bottom 10% just as a policy.   They need to reinvigorate dev teams again.

1. Because we both know that customers don't know what they want. Apple has proven that.

2. After using Windows 8 for a few months, going back to Windows 7 Aero just feels dated. No one is doing translucent effects anymore. Plus, the flat appearance on the desktop fits in to the Metro UI better. Consistency is good.

3. He did like having things his way, but I'm not sure he had as much control over DevDiv as was speculated. WPF has some awesome things, but it was slow and didn't get much dev buy-in. Silverlight was a little better, but with the world moving towards HTML5 and plugin-less browsers, its days were always numbered. WinRT takes the best of WPF/SL and matches it with native code. I wish we could use it on desktop apps, but MS is really pushing Metro right now. Trying to use desktop apps with your finger on a touchscreen is next to impossible, so I can understand why they made that decision.

4. Slow and steady doesn't win the tech race, unless you're content to be Oracle or IBM. I'm glad that Sinofsky and Ballmer are taking a big risk.

5 minutes ago, Charles wrote

*snip*

It's great to see women at the top.

Um, why? Now, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against women (or men for that matter) at the top. Just that I absolutely don't care what gender someone has, as long as the person is fit for the job, no matter the gender.

The Windows head could be a Martian hermaphrodite for all I care.

6 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

Wastingtime - have you used Windows 8?

For the millionth time, yes. Funny how you people keep asking me this, despite my tons of rants about every Metro detail of it.

6 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

Touch is the future. Accept it and embrace it.

For what? I am sure, for fart apps and watching porn it is. But how do you write letters with more than two lines on touch? (without bleeding hands that is).

I could buy the hype if we would get affordable tactile touch devices now, then sure, maybe. You have still issues like the gorilla arm though. But now? Why cripple the desktop? As I said earlier, the pro W8 arguments on laptops and desktops is like poking the eyes out of people and then telling them to get used to it by getting a braille reader and a guide dog. And then going on about how great dogs are and that braille readers improve your touch senses.

17 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

*snip*

1. Because we both know that customers don't know what they want. Apple has proven that.

Apple operates in a entirely different hippsters sphere. Stop aping Apple. Actually, their market share isn't even all that great in smart phones and especially PCs (just tablets, and even there Samsung is eating already). Apple has record profits because of their hippster magic and totally overpriced unit prices. MS can't out-Gucci Gucci.

17 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

2. After using Windows 8 for a few months, going back to Windows 7 Aero just feels dated. No one is doing translucent effects anymore. Plus, the flat appearance on the desktop fits in to the Metro UI better. Consistency is good.

Consistency is good, that's why we have two control panels here, two task bars, and multiple GUI paradigms, in one OS. But that's OK.  Aero on the other hand was SUCH a problem that it needed to be killed right away though...

"the flat appearance on the desktop fits in to the Metro UI" - indeed. Metro has the multi-tasking abilities of Windows 1, so let's give the desktop the style of Win 3.1 as well.

17 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

3. Silverlight was a little better, but with the world moving towards HTML5 and plugin-less browsers, its days were always numbered.

No one cared about the plug-in (in the sense as a Flash-replacement) anymore. It was a hit as LOB plattform. That has been killed, good job. And no, WinRT/Metro won't cut it, because Metro doesn't work on anything besides W8, and W8 is a no go in business, thus Silverlight got stoned and WinRT is dead as well in LOB space (and WPF is on life-support). Haven't you just noticed that those people are completely without a sane future-proof client LOB tooling from Microsoft now?

32 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

Put on your "regular user" hat

Unfortunately, there are a number of niners who are incapable of that. They'll rant for hours about something completely irrelevant claiming that the average user must have it a certain way or else. I must have gotten access to a Super Secret build of Windows, because my desktop is anything but crippled, it quite simply rocks. </rant> Queue violent reaction in 3...2...1...

Anyway, my wife does something similar with her Surface RT, although it lasts long enough that she doesn't always think about charging it until Windows complains. She's easily a Power User+ and thinks it's great on tablet, desktop and laptop.

Sometimes an organization needs somebody with an iron fist to run things for a while. They are able to beat things into shape and bring a vision that otherwise might have been muddled. The problem is that it's not always a good idea for them to stay around after they've played the axe-man role.

57 minutes ago, wastingtime​withforums wrote

*snip*

For the millionth time, yes. Funny how you people keep asking me this, despite my tons of rants about every Metro detail of it.

*snip*

For what? I am sure, for fart apps and watching porn it is. But how do you write letters with more than two lines on touch? (without bleeding hands that is).

I could buy the hype if we would get affordable tactile touch devices now, then sure, maybe. You have still issues like the gorilla arm though. But now? Why cripple the desktop? As I said earlier, the pro W8 arguments on laptops and desktops is like poking the eyes out of people and then telling them to get used to it by getting a braille reader and a guide dog. And then going on about how great dogs are and that braille readers improve your touch senses.

You plug in a keyboard and type away. It is still Windows, after all.

I don't understand the gorilla arm argument. You're not going to be constantly touching the screen. You'll reach out to tap something or do a gesture and then go back to the keyboard and mouse. They can all coexist peacefully. Try it out in a store. Touch screens on laptops definitely make sense.

21 minutes ago, kettch wrote

*snip*

Unfortunately, there are a number of niners who are incapable of that. They'll rant for hours about something completely irrelevant claiming that the average user must have it a certain way or else. I must have gotten access to a Super Secret build of Windows, because my desktop is anything but crippled, it quite simply rocks. </rant> Queue violent reaction in 3...2...1...

 

The only notion of "must...or else" is the spin Microsoft fanbois put on the idea of "choice". Keep wishing for those violent reactions...

58 minutes ago, spivonious wrote

*snip*

2. After using Windows 8 for a few months, going back to Windows 7 Aero just feels dated. No one is doing translucent effects anymore. Plus, the flat appearance on the desktop fits in to the Metro UI better. Consistency is good.

Both Office 2013 and VS 2012 are inconsistent messes (more so Office). They have removed too many visual cues and make the UI look like a bunch of views written by different people all cobbled together into some sort of Frankenstein. Again VS is not so bad on this mark but Office is terrible. can't wait for command line version of these apps. Of course they'll use a proportionally spaced font to be modern and all that.

6 hours ago, TexasToast wrote

@spivonious:

2.  We had flat appearance in DOS.   Do you like bell bottom jeans too?

And before bell bottom jeans, there were straight bottom jeans. We actually went backwards. Bell bottoms were a type of flare, an embellishment on a Plain Jane design, and a fad. For people who liked bell bottoms, going back to straight bottoms was regression to being boring. 3D is also a flare and an embellishment on a Plain Jane design. Maybe 3D was a fad, too.

I'm not going to argue taste with you, just stop with the "DOS was flat" argument, its a non-starter.

http://allthingsd.com/20121113/in-the-sinofsky-departure-bill-gates-sided-with-the-other-steve-ballmer-at-microsoft/

I was getting used to not having the start button but I found a negative to it.  If you remote desktop into your windows 8 box,  every time you hit the windows key it has to do a full screen repaint which sucks up a lot of bandwidth.    It would have just been easier to leave it in.   I am ok with change,  I am not ok with change to make things work like crap. 

45 minutes ago, TexasToast wrote

I was getting used to not having the start button but I found a negative to it.  If you remote desktop into your windows 8 box,  every time you hit the windows key it has to do a full screen repaint which sucks up a lot of bandwidth.

Also, if you remote using a dual-screen, and you have the remote on your R-H screen, finding the 'start' hot-spot with the mouse, is problematic... and if you are someone like me, where using the keyboard is something you try and avoid, then this is quite frustrating.

But, there is where the controversy. They put Sinofsky on top because his report is fancier with all the heatmap and statistical data. They give him the power to bark around in the first place. And now they complain he bites too many people. Then, how about doing something before he bites too much?

As for the Metro full screen not a good choice for many apps such as Skype, I hope they fix that on Win9. Honestly the foundation is already there. Metro can already do tall strip mode. All they need to do is simply put those Strip Metro in a none-resizable window frame and put it on the work space desktop, all done.

And yeah, hire an intern to put back the win orb in 30 minutes.

And yeah, continue to improve the unfinished build-in Metro apps so it could work with PC. Like let me see next picture in the same folder.

Still, Win8 is a great achievement. I am quite amazed how many things they have accomplished. So, I would still prefer to contribute to MS. If he is willing to listen and play well with others, I really hope he continue to work with MS.

43 minutes ago, contextfree` wrote

Good luck to Julie, Jensen & co.  ... please follow through on what you started with Windows 8.

Seconded. We've still got very talented people in charge at Windows. Believe in your vision. The only thing I'd ask you to change, is to be more open and follow the example of Scott Guthrie and his teams.

Also, I'd just like to see a woman as the lead. The whole "it should be the person best suited for the job regardless of gender" argument is nonsensical. Of course it should be the person best suited for the job, but it would be preferrable if the best person was a woman. There's an embarrasing shortage of female rolemodels in this industry, so if one was to emerge, that would be a lot better than yet another male rolemodel.

17 minutes ago, Bas wrote

Also, I'd just like to see a woman as the lead.

Are you a horny teenager?

17 minutes ago, Bas wrote

The whole "it should be the person best suited for the job regardless of gender" argument is nonsensical.

Idiocy. So if someone would be "good", and another one "great", then the "good" one should get the job because of gender? I hope you aren't a CEO.

17 minutes ago, Bas wrote

Of course it should be the person best suited for the job, but it would be preferrable if the best person was a woman.

Look, if a woman IS the best person for the job (because of skill, not her uterus) then no problems from me! But if she isn't, then her womanhood means absolutely nothing. As simple as that.

I am sure some idiots would spin my post as misogynstic, when it is in fact the complete opposite.

You should come work at my current assignment in Amsterdam! It's for a huge fashion label! No shortage of women here

8 hours ago, magicalclick wrote

As for the Metro full screen not a good choice for many apps such as Skype, I hope they fix that on Win9. Honestly the foundation is already there. Metro can already do tall strip mode. All they need to do is simply put those Strip Metro in a none-resizable window frame and put it on the work space desktop, all done.

How would that be different from today? Pin Skype to the side in "tall strip mode" and have the desktop as your main "app". Or do you mean doing that with multiple Metro apps?

6 hours ago, spivonious wrote

*snip*

How would that be different from today? Pin Skype to the side in "tall strip mode" and have the desktop as your main "app". Or do you mean doing that with multiple Metro apps?

If you only use a few applications that is fine. If you have multiple monitors and use more applications at the same time, it is much better to have the ability to arrange the windows in whatever way works for you. Now we are forced into some bizarre pre-Windows 3 mode where windows can't overlap etc. IMO it is a step back. How is it possibly a step forward?

9 hours ago, Maddus Mattus wrote

ICT is a men's world Bas,..

You should come work at my current assignment in Amsterdam! It's for a huge fashion label! No shortage of women here

 

We need urgent pictures of your 'workspace'.

47 minutes ago, kettch wrote

@BitFlipper: But it's also nice to have "lightweight" applications completely out of the way, not even on the task bar. I don't have any serious work that happens in Store Apps. Those are all stuff like my calendar, messaging, email, etc. None of those have anything to do with actual work. The real work is Visual Studio, Office and stuff like that.

yep (as well as not running in the background either).

I'm someone that *do* depend on real applications (and not web apps either) and just seeing how the desktop has been castrated in one version alone is worrisome. There was no reason to Metrofy the desktop itself at all, yet here were are with 2 decades of UI refinement out the window.

26 minutes ago, BitFlipper wrote

@kettch: However the trend seems to be towards Metro style apps while real applications get relegated to the "legacy" desktop (although has MS ever used the word "legacy"?).

No

I don't share the opinion that the desktop has been crippled, but YMMV. The way I use the Windows 8 desktop is unchanged from the way I was using Windows 7: Search for everything, pin lots of stuff to the task bar. Adding more applications within easy striking distance on the Start screen is just a bonus.

from the way I was using Windows 7: Search for everything, pin lots of stuff to the task bar. Adding more applications within easy striking distance on the Start screen is just a bonus.

7 hours ago, kettch wrote

@BitFlipper: But it's also nice to have "lightweight" applications completely out of the way, not even on the task bar. I don't have any serious work that happens in Store Apps. Those are all stuff like my calendar, messaging, email, etc. None of those have anything to do with actual work. The real work is Visual Studio, Office and stuff like that.

Except for the fact that the Windows Store App world is disconnected from the desktop aside from the clipboard. My daughter was home today working on homework in OneNote and wanted my help. She doesn't have Outlook installed on the desktop. It would have been great if she could have used the Share -> Email feature in OneNote to send me a link to the notebook but because Windows Store App Mail can't talk to the desktop and visa versa it's back to copy/paste. That goes for all of the explorer "Send To" stuff as well has the reverse: not having share charm support in the desktop world.

If they don't extend the contracts from the Windows Store App world into the desktop in Windows 9 I'd say Bitflipper's assertions are correct; The desktop is legacy.

10 hours ago, ZippyV wrote

*snip*

We need urgent pictures of your 'workspace'.

Not enough memory on phone to take picture of each pretty girl I see

The same thing, in my opinion, goes for syncing of settings and data, and live tiles. These are really great additions to Windows and I'd want to see them become available to all applications that run on Windows 8. We'll see what happens with Windows 9 or whatever is coming next with the rumored yearly release schedule.

Herbie

13 hours ago, kettch wrote

@DeathByVisualStudio: OneNote (2013) on the desktop doesn't require an email client to share anything. I don't have any 2010 instances left, so I can't test how that works.

That's a big improvement on OneNote sharing. 2010 is still dependent on a MAPI client. I hope they do the same thing for Word, Excel, etc. in 2013. It still would be nice however for Microsoft to merge any "sending/sharing" functionally so it's the same workflow across the desktop and Windows Store App space.

11 hours ago, Dr Herbie wrote

@Bas: Of course, people are already coming out with solutions to this problem ...

Herbie

It's a super clipboard. Great start but not quite the one step approach of the share charm or "send to". BTW looking at the project's issue list it looks like they have a long way to go; doesn't support OneNote or Outlook as sources.

All-in-all the duality of W8 makes me cross-eyed sometimes. Maybe with Sinofsky gone there will be some flexibility here in the future.

22 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

All-in-all the duality of W8 makes me cross-eyed sometimes. Maybe with Sinofsky gone there will be some flexibility here in the future.

"Duality"? How about Frankenstein?

I must admit I miss some of your healthy rage from some months ago. Has the Windows 8 use decreased your coffee consumption?

1 day ago, spivonious wrote

*snip*

How would that be different from today? Pin Skype to the side in "tall strip mode" and have the desktop as your main "app". Or do you mean doing that with multiple Metro apps?

That is whole lot of difference.

1. It is hosted inside the desktop.
2. It is hosted inside the desktop, so, you can see taskbar.
3. It is hosted inside the desktop, so, you can switch apps without unhide whacky auto-hide bar(s).
4. It is hosted inside the desktop, so your desktop is still the same resolution instead of shrink or cropped (whatever artifact you get from having smaller desktop in Metro Split).
5. It is hosted inside the desktop, so you can move the Window Frame that hosts the Metro App in Strip Mode.
6. It is hosted inside the desktop, so you can have multiple Apps running in Strip Mode.
7. It is hosted inside the desktop, so you can rearrange all those Metro Apps in Strip Mode, aka, overlap, non-overlap, partially overlap, place anywhere you like.
8. It is hosted inside the desktop, so Desktop lover can stay in desktop while still able to enjoy Metro App in the same Visible Taskbar way.
9. It is hosted inside the desktop, look at another new thread about time. That's just one small reason why people love Taskbar when still want to have that as a choice.
10. It is hosted inside the desktop, doesn't mean it will break Metro experience.
11. It is hosted inside the desktop, so we can enjoy the same multi-tasking experience since Win95.
12. It is hosted inside the desktop, so, we can use Metro Skype in desktop instead of installing another desktop version (which I have been recommend to stay away from Metro version by fellow C9 members).

And just a reminder, hosting Metro in desktop doesn't mean the aspect ratio is changed. You only have the Full Screen version be a little bit smaller for taskbar.  And with Metro Strip mode. Doing this does not change Metro App development at all, but, makes Metro App to much desktop friendly and so much more versatile.

And another reminder, this can be done already. StartDock already hosted StarMenu in desktop.

13 hours ago, magicalclick wrote

*snip*

And another reminder, this can be done already. StartDock already hosted StarMenu in desktop. 

And this is why it makes no sense for MS to do it. The tiny minority complaining about things will just get StartDock. The rest of us will move on and accept the change.

2 hours ago, spivonious wrote

*snip*

The rest of us will move on and accept the change.

You mean... Compromise.

30 minutes ago, elmer wrote

*snip*

You mean... Compromise.

In life, what isn't a compromise?

47 minutes ago, cbae wrote

*snip*

In life, what isn't a compromise?

According to Sinofsky: Not Windows-8

7 minutes ago, elmer wrote

*snip*

According to Sinofsky: Not Windows-8

And is probably part of the reason why he's gonzo -- no Compromising his vision for Windows 8 and for the rest of the company.

@spivonious:

nice