Stephen Elop makes me angry

• Fire your marketing department. The mode of operation, it seems to me, is come up with an idea, and market the heck out of it. for example: Silverlight was going to take the web and kill all other plugins. XPS is going to take PDF on and win. Windows Phone 7, was marketed to the tune of many $M's. Be more humble. Let the products talk

This may come as a shock to you, but that's kinda the way pretty much every company on Earth works. And, oddly enough, it's a remarkably successful strategy. Being humble and 'letting the products talk' has never got anyone anywhere. Even the companies who pitch at the higher end of any given market, like Apple, advertise heavily. They're just more focused because they fundamentally aren't aiming at the same size market.

• Get more good engineers. It will be hard. The good one, it seems, want to be in silicon valley.

I don't think Microsoft have ever lacked good engineers, that Windows works at all and runs such a diverse amount of software is a testament to that fact. Now hiring people who are good presenters to present stuff, rather than just sticking devs on stage would probably be a much wiser idea.

• Open source

What I didn't mention is how to make $$. I don't know.

Well those two rarely go together for one thing.

Lumina 900 is only 99 bucks with data plan. I am not sure why you expect NFC and duel core support to be included in this hardware. And many people actually camp out WP8 instead of getting a Lumina 900, specially the incompatibility rumors have been floating around already.

And SL? From my perception, Silverlight is always part of WPF/XAML. I mean, it is basically XAML on IE7, instead, they support multiple browsers to gain enough dev support. At one point , people are wondering if WPF is dead, instead, it simply evolved to Metro/XAML, which logically is still the same.

And web to HTML5 is the way to go, I think Balmer is right about that. Web is all about standards, not plugins. html5 is not as good, but, it has more potentials in terms of web ecosystem.  

13 hours ago, fanbaby wrote

When you have to take care of so many employees, how can you bet the company and not even blink?

Such a sweet and smart guy

EDIT: I was so angry i forgot the link: http://mlkshk.com/p/GXR5

On one thing we agree: a few things companies do seems baffling if not altogether misguided. But then, it's entirely possible that these top notch MBA's just play a game we don't even know the rules of. Reminds me of my attempts at inferring the rules of cricket by watching a few games on TV.

This said, even with my very limited knowledge in the field, I think that what Elop did was remarkable given the initial conditions. Symbian was falling hard, and had been for years, Android was already an overcrowded market, with several strong market leaders. Not a nice place to be the new kid on the block. 

By jumping on WP with both feet, Nokia obtained an immediate injection of hard cash and a huge safety net, as Microsoft cannot afford to let Nokia to go under, at least for a few years to come. This was the best outcome possible for Nokia's stakeholders, employees included (alas, not all of them) but it could only happen through a full committment to the platform. All in all, a solid A in my books.

4 minutes ago, Blue Ink wrote

*snip*

On one thing we agree: a few things companies do seems baffling if not altogether misguided. But then, it's entirely possible that these top notch MBA's just play a game we don't even know the rules of.

The rules in this case were relatively simple:

Scenario: Symbian was failing, Meego/Maemo was a non-entity that Nokia could never fund to become large enough to have a big enough ecosystem. It was the proverbial "burning platform", doing nothing could only lead to the end of Nokia.

Option 1: Go Android. Disappear into a sea of averageness, maybe tread sufficient water to keep going, maybe disappear. The short term advantages would be obvious, Android phones were the market leader, the OS was free-ish (pretty obvious you'd end up paying Microsoft licencing fees at that point) and nobody would question the decision.

Option 2: Get in on the ground with the Windows Phone 8 platform. Commit to having your technology baked right into the OS, potentially not only on the phone but on the PC itself. Reap the rewards of licensing technology that ends on pretty much every desktop/laptop/tablet on the planet. And do so as the premier partner of Microsoft.

Now the risk of #2 is potentially higher, but the rewards could be phenomenal. Now that did require adapting some of the existing devices to run WP7 in the mean time, but that's hardly the worst thing in the world. Fortune favours the brave.

And if you think Elop or any of the senior management at Nokia were not fully aware of every detail of where Windows 8 / Phone 8 was heading (and probably still more than is publically known now) then you're very naive or deluded. That deal was undoubtedly done on the strength of what we're seeing now, not what was available when it was announced. And while the geek world might like to dismiss WP, even back then the likes of Gartner were (and still are) predicting significant successes for the platform.

Having watched this video about Rx (well the first 10 minutes, it's 1:20 hours long), I've gotten another insight why MBA should NOT run a tech company. Its about startung afresh and rewriting your stack. Or introducing major features. Basically one should avoid doing that, and thread very cautiously when it's a necessity.

It seems to me that suddenly De Smet's tone is more subdued and isn't that enthusiastic as it was in the beginning, once more implications and difficulties are found.

Developer: This stack is 10 years old.

MBA Boss: Is that right? That's not very competitive is it?

Developer: Correct. I want to reinvent everything. Here I made a presentation and a prototype. It's easy. Can I? Can I?

 MBA Boss (dave letterman hillbilly voice): Well, aaaaa, OK

The Linux kernel has not been rewritten (well, not as a whole anyway) since day 1. And it has become "the official kernel of planet earth". Good thing there's no MBA telling Linus what to do

 Then again I might be wrong.

8 hours ago, AndyC wrote

*snipsnip*

Option 1: Go Android. Disappear into a sea of averageness, maybe tread sufficient water to keep going, maybe disappear. The short term advantages would be obvious, Android phones were the market leader, the OS was free-ish (pretty obvious you'd end up paying Microsoft licencing fees at that point) and nobody would question the decision.

Option 2: Get in on the ground with the Windows Phone 8 platform. Commit to having your technology baked right into the OS, potentially not only on the phone but on the PC itself. Reap the rewards of licensing technology that ends on pretty much every desktop/laptop/tablet on the planet. And do so as the premier partner of Microsoft.

*snipsnip*

17 hours ago, vesuvius wrote

*snip*

That is why you should read the people that are impartial on Channel 9. I hardly contribute now because for the most part you are getting advice from MSFT shareholders or people that think with their heart, rather than head.

Sorry for the dearth of meat in my reply, could not have said it better.

4 hours ago, fanbaby wrote

 Then again I might be wrong.

We agree again.

6 hours ago, fanbaby wrote

The Linux kernel has not been rewritten (well, not as a whole anyway) since day 1. And it has become "the official kernel of planet earth". Good thing there's no MBA telling Linus what to do

The same as true of the NT kernel, or the CE kernel for that matter.

The only kernel rewrite from scratch that MS has done was when they built NT to replace the DOS/Windows kernel. And that was definitely a good call.

1 day ago, Blue Ink wrote

 

By jumping on WP with both feet, Nokia obtained an immediate injection of hard cash and a huge safety net, as Microsoft cannot afford to let Nokia to go under, at least for a few years to come. This was the best outcome possible for Nokia's stakeholders, employees included (alas, not all of them) but it could only happen through a full committment to the platform. All in all, a solid A in my books.

Really? Looks like Microsoft just shivved Nokia (and all their other OEMs) just recently with their tablet announcement. Nokia signed a really bad deal with Microsoft if it didn't include a non-compete clause.

2 days ago, LiquidBoy wrote

fanbaby

...please dont feel sorry for me... i actually feel sorry for you.. I'm a silverlight guy, that picked up WPF , and easily transitioned to XAML/C# in Win8.. Oh and now that I know XAML like the back of my hand I've been picking up C++/Cx and DirectX ...

Thanks to Silverlight teaching skills like MVVM/XAML and experiencing a design first approach, and with great tooling I'm pretty skilled up..

So please don't feel sorry for us Silverlight devs, we're doing just fine with our feet in both the old world and the new world ...

Thx for your concern ... xoxo

I am having hard time figuring if this was said ironically, but let's assume not. I don't pity you, but I do have some advice for you. Pick up some HTML/CSS/JavaScript. Learn some of the many libraries and tools being given to you for free on github.

Around 2000, i was teaching computing. I was teaching Visual Basic, VBScript (yes, don't ask), the Jet engine as a DB, SQL, HTML, CSS and JavaScript. Guess what's still relevant today? 

In your eyes, XAML might be the greatest and most important thing in computing today. After all you take pride in being skilled in it. I don't know XAML, and not interested in learning, but i urge you to consider the fact that it might not stay with us forever.

The emotion you do evoke in me is fear. After all you were one of the army of Microsoft developers (bots, i like to call you) who were willing to execute the order of Microsoft: Silverlight on every web site, only hippies care about openness.

EDIT: Oh, and just to stay on topic: NOKIA JUST GOT PUNCHED IN THE STOMACH AND MANY HERE SAY THAT"S ITS JUST RAIN. I HAVE NEWS TO YOU IT"S NOT WATER.....

YET ANOTHER EDIT: I must have some prophecy skills. Just not long ago i said that most of the people here cheering the MS NOKIA deal would throw NOKIA under the bus if it would help the WP platform. Well it may have just happened 

What is this talk about Nokia issue? I am thinking of buying a Nokia WP8 if it is able to come out at WP8 launch. I like their design better than other phones, except the Toshiba's phone is very cool too, especially Toshiba model is water proof.

I actually didn't really care about Nokia phone until their recent Lumia phones.

2 days ago, TheGnu wrote

Why is fanbaby trying to be like chris/car pool/beer? I'd love a windows phone, alas the android  that Three foisted on me will have to stay till end of contract, but so much of the software is so buggy, numerous times I've dealing with automated phone systems and the only way to hang up is to take the battery out.. End rant.

Is WP8 available to buy? err no but where was the anger when ICS was announced or IO5 sorry this just seems like sh*t stirring

1st: offense taken RE beer. 2nd: I really really really don't care if WP succeeds. Really. I take Google's words that android was started so there would be choice, so windows phone would just be more choice. Also IE10 seems to conform to standards pretty well, so I even wouldn't mind if someone gave a WP8 when available (though i will miss WebGL ). BUT, let me ask you a few questions:

1. Do you understand the Silverlight is now completely gone from the last place it was used? (again i have nothing against SL on the phone). That future developement on WP will not be sl?
2. As new apps will not work on wp7, for example only IE9 and not IE10  is available and will ever be, so it seems, would you recommend buying WP 7/7.5 today?
3. Will Nokia see sales declining b/c of this?
4. Had nokia gone with android/also with android things would be less problematic?(no need to answer this if you think everything is groovy.
5. Is elop a genius (just kidding)

2 hours ago, fanbaby wrote

*snip*

Around 2000, i was teaching computing. I was teaching Visual Basic, VBScript (yes, don't ask), the Jet engine as a DB, SQL, HTML, CSS and JavaScript. Guess what's still relevant today? 

It's SQL, isn't it? That's probably been a better bet than anything else. 

It's just as naive to think HTML/CSS/JS is going to be the only way to develop apps as time goes on as any other technology. The only guarantee is that nothing lasts forever.

2 hours ago, fanbaby wrote

1. Do you understand the Silverlight is now completely gone from the last place it was used? (again i have nothing against SL on the phone). That future developement on WP will not be sl?

Don't let marketing monikers fool you: the future development of WP will still be based on XAML + C#/other languages. Transitioning won't amount to much, and you can still use SL to develop for WP7 and WP8. Using your metrics, C++ developers should slit their wrists with rusty blades over C++11 (hint: we aren't).

2. As new apps will not work on wp7, for example only IE9 and not IE10  is available and will ever be, so it seems, would you recommend buying WP 7/7.5 today?

It depends. WP7 is still more than good enough for most users, so yes, I would recommend it for some users. And I would suggest others to wait. Of all things, I don't think I would consider IE10 as a factor though: poorly designed websites have a lot more to do with the bad experience you get on smartphones in general than the merits of the individual browsers.

3. Will Nokia see sales declining b/c of this?

Good question... intuitively I'd say yes, but I'm afraid I have to ask "compared to what?". WP8 isn't the only competitor of WP7: with looming announcements from Apple's and Android camps, there's a possibility that what looked like an untimely announcement to many (me included) could be just a preventive measure. I don't have all the details and projections it takes to make that kind of call.

4. Had nokia gone with android/also with android things would be less problematic?(no need to answer this if you think everything is groovy.

No. That move would have prevented any cash investment by Microsoft, the low estimate of which is 1B$. With the low profit margins recorded for Android devices, that means that Nokia would have had to sell tens of millions Android devices to be exactly where it is now, not an easy feat when some of the largest competitors (e.g. Samsung) do not rely on the mobile market for their survival.

5. Is elop a genius (just kidding)

No. I reserve that title for the likes of Da Vinci, Feynman and very few others. But I think he's a pretty good pilot flying in extreme weather.

Elop could do really well at Bain Capital.

21 hours ago, fanbaby wrote

*snip*

 

1. Do you understand the Silverlight is now completely gone from the last place it was used? (again i have nothing against SL on the phone). That future developement on WP will not be sl?
2. As new apps will not work on wp7, for example only IE9 and not IE10  is available and will ever be, so it seems, would you recommend buying WP 7/7.5 today?
3. Will Nokia see sales declining b/c of this?
4. Had nokia gone with android/also with android things would be less problematic?(no need to answer this if you think everything is groovy.
5. Is elop a genius (just kidding)

 

1) No, I don't even support the rise of SL. When SL first came out, it didn't support the full feature set of XAML/WPF. The community was herding toward a less featured platform, instead of a much richer WPF. While SL made tons of improvements to catch up to WPF, but, it is still not the same. And having the community divided into WPF vs. SL is just bad for the whole ecosystem.

2) where did you get that information? I don't think that's actually happening.

3) why didn't you include HTC, Samsung, etc? And duh, will Xbox360 decline in sales after the announcement of Xbox720? Or duh, will iPhone4S decline in sales after iPhone5 is announced?

4) What problem?

5) No, Elop is a man who decided to team up with Microsoft. Elop is a man who openly claimed his decision is jumping into freezing uncertain water from a burning platform.

Executives are like that.

When you have to take care of so many employees, how can you bet the company and not even blink?

This is the usual justification:

It's not me, it's the chair I sit in.

In their mind, they were hired to do a job, and they did their job and they're not responsible for any social effects of their actions. Why is it so easy for them to take bonuses and give out pay cuts? It's because of this same reason. To be a real corporate executive, you have to have a tangible level of sociopath traits.

In their minds, the employment pool is a market, and the employees will be re-absorbed by the job market. What they don't take into consideration is that those people will lose their seniority and benefits also when they are re-absorbed.

@1001001: The most liberal estimations of psychopathy in C-level positions is only around four percent. Then again, it is a spectrum disorder, with some people scoring higher than others.

-Josh