This make me think that XAML might not be with us forever

MS is serious about HTML/CSS/JavaScript.

It seems VS2012 is one of the best tools for these languages.

I doubt any language will be with us forever

Personally I'd like to see a lighter, smarter syntax (e.g. not XML) for the XAML model. ASP.NET : Razor :: XAML : this.

@contextfree`:

Personally I would just output simple HTML using my own Razor Helper functions on websites. Browsers cannot even understand XAML except IE.

Trident from WinDiv vs. Avalon from DevDiv ? lets see.... oh the Avalon team is in WinDiv now.

Considering quite a lot of Visual Studio is currently written in XAML, I think it'll be around for a while.

Doing stuff in XAML is insanely easier than in the brain* that is HTML/CSS/JS.

With XAML they can continue to have full control over all aspects of the language and make sure that it keeps up with the current needs of the platform. Anybody who complains about XAML has probably never used binding. Try that in a browser without crazy JS libraries and other complications. With HTML, they are subject to whatever the standards bodies are smoking.

XAML is also used for more than just graphics too, it's a generic markup for object models.

@fanbaby: for every video/presentation like the one you link to there are xaml/c# ones ... How can you not think XAML is not taken seriously by MS and most importantly WINDOWS when some very key applications are written in it.. AND the fact that it's made it into WinRT also means its being viewed as a serious technology..

I wish we would just move on from these stupid side line comments ...

I use XAML, I use WinJS, I use DirectX/Cx (very early dev thou), and I use pure Web technologies (html/css/js)  ... they are all good and have there pro's and cons and NO one technology is the magic bullet!

...  move on!

Isn't fanbaby already identified as a nay-sayer on MS in general? What's that for?

I agree with those who speak in support of XAML. Obviously those who spoke beforehand do not use it and have not gotten their expertise around it - or they'd like using it. Perhaps they have only ever written for the web, something has them half-in, half-out so there is nothing compelling use of XAML like desktop apps, real LOB enterprise apps.

Browsers suck. Whoever thought putting a LOB app there is still very wrong, imho. Deployment lightweights, the lot.

Silverlight is the only sane way to attempt to put a serious LOB on the web. Got to have state. XAML beats HTML/CSS/JS on all counts.

Why are web devs so nutty sometimes?

27 minutes ago, JohnAskew wrote

Isn't fanbaby already identified as a nay-sayer on MS in general? What's that for?

I agree with those who speak in support of XAML. Obviously those who spoke beforehand do not use it and have not gotten their expertise around it - or they'd like using it. Perhaps they have only ever written for the web, something has them half-in, half-out so there is nothing compelling use of XAML like desktop apps, real LOB enterprise apps.

Browsers suck. Whoever thought putting a LOB app there is still very wrong, imho. Deployment lightweights, the lot.

Silverlight is the only sane way to attempt to put a serious LOB on the web. Got to have state. XAML beats HTML/CSS/JS on all counts.

Why are web devs so nutty sometimes?

well at some level it's a mix of things like EGO and how none of us want to be working on the stuff that is "old and ready to be dumped" face it .... folks want to say they are working on the new / cool stuff that is "right" like some level of "this is the one true good tech that all you others are missing out on"

some times this is a minor thing, other times it grows into a giant war....

According to this video, MS is also pretty committed to XAML:

http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Bytes+by+MSDN/Bytes-by-MSDN-Windows-8-User-Interface

Trust me...with the experience of building an HTML/WinJS Windows 8 app being very, very "not fun", I'm sure Xaml will catch on despite the HTML5 hype.

Isn't XAML just mark-ups for filling up a UI tree? a possible native UI tree?

I don't know if a browser canvas + javascript is ever going to be as fast as native code... I think XAML is safe for a long while

@Minh: XAML is also used for the styles and animation of the UI tree. I don't know about speed, but the canvas and javascript are going to be loads more complex than the declarative model that XAML uses.

Declarative animations? Remember W3C SMIL?

I don't have a particular preference either way. I hope we'll see some radical ideas emerge in the UI space but WPF et al are still pretty cutting edge.

Well XAML and HTML is just organized text.   It is taking this text and turning it into useful User interaces where the cutting edge of technology is.    I just want a tool to create this text the way it shows up (WYSIWYG).   I rather handle the events through code.   Just my preference. 

19 hours ago, Minh wrote

Isn't XAML just mark-ups for filling up a UI tree? a possible native UI tree?

I don't know if a browser canvas + javascript is ever going to be as fast as native code... I think XAML is safe for a long while

it is a "markup" language but it is used for some stuff that is not really ui but the xaml helps display a graph of the data. so it's not just for ui.

@JohnAskew:

Saying XAML/SIlverlight is better than HTML is like saying Esperanto is better than English.