I am not exactly a big fan of the RT version, but given the competition, the Pro is even more redundant.

The only time I feel I would like having a tablet is when I'm traveling; in an airplane, or sometimes even at a conference depending on their seating arrangements, a tablet would be more useful. But I'm not going to buy a separate, expensive device for just those scenarios.

The Surface Pro or something similar would be the workhorse laptop that can run Visual Studio and do all the things I need to do at work and can be attached to an external display and just function like a regular PC. Yet at the same time, it would also become a tablet for those situations where that is more convenient without having to own and carry around an extra device.

That is why I look at the iPad or a Windows RT tablet and see a toy that's kind of neat but that I, personally, just don't have a need to own. But when I look at the Surface Pro I see something that, next time I need to replace my laptop, I can get instead to fill both roles at once.

Of course, it remains to be seen whether the Surface Pro can actually work that way. It could be too heavy for a tablet, or too underpowered as a serious laptop replacement. But if not the Surface Pro itself, the idea of a device that can be both really appeals to me and I think that's a niche that Windows 8 can fill that iPads or Android tablets definitely can't.

3 hours ago, Sven Groot wrote

 But if not the Surface Pro itself, the idea of a device that can be both really appeals to me and I think that's a niche that Windows 8 can fill that iPads or Android tablets definitely can't.

13 hours ago, wastingtime​withforums wrote

If you want x86, why would you buy at a premium a device with a 10 inch display, when you could just buy an Ultrabook for less with far more power and a bigger screen? Look what you get for $850:

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-S3-391-9499-13-3-Inch-Ultrabook-Champagne/dp/B009JXJXAC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357398557&sr=8-1&keywords=Acer+Aspire+S3+i7&tag=hardfocom-20

The Acer S3 has a 1366x768 display and weighs 3 lbs.  The Surface Pro has 1920x1280 and weighs less than 2 lbs.  Also, the S3 is being criticised for not having a particularly good screen, whereas the Surface RT has been widely lauded for having an excellent display, so the Surface Pro is bound to be very good as well.

Those are pretty significant differences, and for some people can justify spending the extra money.  I know for myself I'd refuse to buy a tablet with 1366x768 resolution -- that's less vertical resolution than I had on my Windows 95 desktop in 1996 (!!)  ..... and let's not forget that the iPad offers 2048x1536 resolution. 

Second, ignoring quality, those devices are lacking features. Better screen resolution and viewing angles, touch screen support, sensors, etc.

The Surface Pro provides tablet functionality (not found in your Ultrabooks), pen input (not found in your Ultrabooks), quasi-laptop functionality (your Ultrabooks will do better here), and full desktop functionality via docking (works for both). None of this may be compelling for you, but if you can't see why it might be compelling for someone else...

 Customers are obviously willing to pay for premium devices, allowing for actual profit to be made.

From Apple.  There's no indication they're willing to that the Windows notebooks, for various reasons.  Certainly not in this economy, along with their disposable income being pulled in many directions from tech with smartphones and tablets.

I too am wondering what problem the Surface Pro is trying to solve.  Again, albeit obviously less since it can run x86 apps, like the Surface RT it's the inherent problem with trying to make a device to showcase an OS with dual personalities.  It's a slew of compromises.

As a tablet?  Yes - one of the heaviest and thickest out there with half the battery life of the competition.  Still very poor selection of apps.  Priced extremely high.  No 3G.  Better resolution than Surface, still less than the latest Android/Apple tablets.

As a laptop?  Fixed hinge and keyboard make it poorly suited to be used on anything other than a flat surface when working.  Even the "best" Type Keyboard option still has a ridiculous small trackpad relative to most laptops, and increases the thickness/weight so that we're close to Ultrabook territory in those two aspects as well.  Integrated graphics only.  Small storage. Small screen.  Priced high.

Does it have a niche?  Yes, probably.  Just a very, very small one.

It will be about 1 lb less, have more ram, a better processor, faster disk, better resolution

Apps? meh... This has applications

3G? I can tether to 4G... or 5G, or even Bieber 6G

Why not Apple/Android: The Surface fits into "my" ecosystem - those others do not

As a laptop... "when working" it will be great.

... the leading PRO argument is that our Silverlight apps will work with it. I favor moving away from SL but that's another story.

1 hour ago, NitzWalsh wrote

*snip*

From Apple.  There's no indication they're willing to that the Windows notebooks, for various reasons.  Certainly not in this economy, along with their disposable income being pulled in many directions from tech with smartphones and tablets.

The problem is that the Windows brand is reliable in the same way that Walmart is reliable. Everyone has a Windows machine, but few people "love" it.

This is the thing I never really got about Microsoft rebranding all of their core technologies to be "Microsoft" or "Windows" branded. They fell into the (disappointingly common) trap of saying "We have two brands. One is great - one is ok, but we all identify more with the OK brand. Let's fold the great brand into the OK one and people then we will get the kudos that was previously going to the great brand".

Xbox was more of a luxury brand when it didn't have Microsoft's logo splattered all over it. Lionhead studios is a better brand than Microsoft games, and "Windows Live Hotmail" was a vastly inferior brand to "hotmail".

I think perhaps some executives at Microsoft should go on a little two day "brand awareness" course to understand what consumers actually feel about brands, and how they can be exploited.

If they wanted Microsoft Surface running Windows RT to have sold better, they should have just differentiated the brand by calling it "Surface", and dropped the whole "Microsoft" and "Windows" branding from it.

Much as I hate to say it - Apple has already learnt this lesson. "Apple" is not a cool label. The "i" prefix is. That's why they don't call their product "Apple Phone RT with User Accessibility Compatibility Extensions XP 2004 Customer-Orientated Edition"

*snip*

"Apple Phone RT with User Accessibility Compatibility Extensions XP 2004 Customer-Orientated Edition"

Ha! Love it

As for me I've been using my Build tablet for over a year now as my laptop replacement. It works pretty well for development despite the small screen size & resolution. I certainly would prefer the resolution on the Surface Pro however.

I use the tablet mainly as a third screen (mail, web, OneNote) on the desktop using mouse & keyboard most of the time. On weekends and on the road it becomes my laptop but again I use it mainly on the desktop with mouse & keyboard.

Now that I have a Galaxy Note II as a phone I seldom use the tablet as a tablet. IMO this is another example of Microsoft being late to market and not anticipating where it's going. My next laptop replacement might just be a laptop if I can get more power, memory, bigger display, etc. now that my tablet needs are fulfilled.

If I get a Surface Pro, put on Office(including the very necessary OneNote), and a few other programs...I'm set.

It's bonus for sure is the digitizer. It's a laptop on your desk, snap off the keyboard to go to a meeting, now it's a tablet PC with pen input. WIN!

Though, I'm considering just giving the first round a pass and making a decision on the next iteration of Surface (if one does exist). A little unsure of buying something first gen when it's possible that the second gen will be vastly superior (esp. in terms of fixing any nasty issues).

Part of the whole idea about building an OS that can handle full screen tablet-capable apps and also traditional desktop apps is that you might want something to carry around with you during the day, able to write on with a pen, etc., and then when you come home, sit it on your desk and use it like a desktop computer.

I would be interested, but I just got through paying for fixes to my laptop so I'm going to wait a while.

The HDD space isn't that important to me since I always use an external drive for my files, typically I just use the internal HDD for apps, although I have enough space on my external drive to handle that too if I need it. Getting a computer with high disk space = unimportant.

Though, I'm considering just giving the first round a pass and making a decision on the next iteration of Surface (if one does exist). A little unsure of buying something first gen when it's possible that the second gen will be vastly superior (esp. in terms of fixing any nasty issues).

That's my plan, too.  It sounds like Intel has made some great progress lately in super low-power x86 chips recently so by the end of 2013 I'd expect to see a second-generation Surface Pro that uses a lot less power.  Plus the Windows App Store will be a lot more filled out by then.

2 minutes ago, warren wrote

*snip*

That's my plan, too.  It sounds like Intel has made some great progress lately in super low-power x86 chips recently so by the end of 2013 I'd expect to see a second-generation Surface Pro that uses a lot less power.  Plus the Windows App Store will be a lot more filled out by then.

It's gonna be fun to see people's confused reactions when they compare how many hours of Netflix you can watch on a Pro versus RT tablet (hint: x86 wins power hands down for video).

19 minutes ago, Visible = False wrote

@evildictaitor: An i5 beats an ARM chip in battery life when it comes to watching Netflix?

Do the test when it comes out . It certainly used to.

23 minutes ago, Visible = False wrote

@evildictaitor: Where did you hear that it "used to"? Microsoft has already indicated 50% less battery life in the Surface Pro even though it has a 30% larger battery that the RT.

I heard* that for encrypted video playback (i.e. DRM) the Intel GPU/i5s were outperforming Nvidia/ARM tablets by a full hour of full-screen playback in terms of battery life. That was a long while ago (like 18 months ago), so it might have changed since then.

For normal computing the i5 will obviously lose out - so you'll have less time with your Office 2013 on Pro than on RT, but for Netflix (which is DRM fullscreen video playback) you might see it swing the other way.

* a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Terms and conditions apply. Not official Microsoft anything.

It's gonna be fun to see people's confused reactions when they compare how many hours of Netflix you can watch on a Pro versus RT tablet (hint: x86 wins power hands down for video).

I'm not disagreeing with you on the battery life concerns, but this isn't really the target usage for Surface Pro, is it?  Watching that much Netflix in one go usually means you're at home, so you can run a power cable.  No sense in wearing down the battery for no reason beyond a very minor bit of inconvenience.

4 hours ago, warren wrote

*snip*

I'm not disagreeing with you on the battery life concerns, but this isn't really the target usage for Surface Pro, is it?  Watching that much Netflix in one go usually means you're at home, so you can run a power cable.  No sense in wearing down the battery for no reason beyond a very minor bit of inconvenience.

Netflix was a bad example because it requires a good quality Internet conenction - but running hours lots of DRMed videos in one sitting without a power cord is quite a common thing to want to do, e.g. for sitting on a plane flight.

Discussions like this and rumor's from MS_Nerd, I will admit have me thinking otherwise.

Combine that with the post xmas rush, everyone and I mean everyone around my area were swarming round the tablet stands. Not interested in PC's or camera's anymore. The people want tablets... and you can't see ms anywhere, except Jon Lewis...

I really REALLY want a pro... but as the days tick by I convince myself less.. already starting to see that people aren't as interested in this version as to what could be "next"... I know it's impossible to chase the tech dragon but, it ain't even shipped yet!

4 hours ago, CaRDiaK wrote

Although I've saved all of xmas to get a pro come release.

Discussions like this and rumor's from MS_Nerd, I will admit have me thinking otherwise.

Combine that with the post xmas rush, everyone and I mean everyone around my area were swarming round the tablet stands. Not interested in PC's or camera's anymore. The people want tablets... and you can't see ms anywhere, except Jon Lewis...

I really REALLY want a pro... but as the days tick by I convince myself less.. already starting to see that people aren't as interested in this version as to what could be "next"... I know it's impossible to chase the tech dragon but, it ain't even shipped yet!

I bought a Surface RT and it's really nice!

Herbie

It sounds like you need to build a "device update pipeline". Get a pro and use it until VNext comes out and either gift or sell (eBay?) the "old" tablet to the next person in your chain. If VNext doesn't come out too quickly, you should be able to pull the value you need from the original purchase.

3 hours ago, MikeInOhio wrote

It sounds like you need to build a "device update pipeline". Get a pro and use it until VNext comes out and either gift or sell (eBay?) the "old" tablet to the next person in your chain. If VNext doesn't come out too quickly, you should be able to pull the value you need from the original purchase.

This may work for cars, but I think consumer electronics generally devalue too quickly for that not to waste a lot of money.