Windows 8 - First Impressions (that you didnt ask for!)

OK im going to keep all my rants and raves to one thread...

and I gotta say - there seems to be a lot more rants at the moment (hey as usual )

FIrst of all - lets start with Metro.

On first glance it really does look nice. You play with a bit and go "Cool! this is going to be great"

Then - after about 5 minutes - youre going - where are all the options? why cant i change anything? how do i close metro tiles? how do i switch between running tiles - without randomly / spastically clicking the left side of the screen in hopes that one of the correct tiles "pops out"

It sort of reminds me of playing with media centre for 5 minutes...until you realize it is artificially crippled (see my old media centre / incorporate explorer rants) and just too limited to really have fun with

Metro "sample apps"

Well I sure hope these arnt sample apps - cause only one them is any good (the equiv of msPaint one *weather was good too

The closest i can come to describing how these "samples" hold up to ANY ipad/phone apps is early java gray box apps in first gen browsers (ouch)

Ugly, jerky, unclear, no global method of customizing or altering or even controlling - amateur graphics, font positioning... UI design..

After going through each and everyone - and UNPINNING them all except a few - im left asking ARE YOU REALLY THAT FAR BEHIND APPLE?

Windows 8 Desktop (?)

First glance - again - looks nice. neat blues - cool start bar - then the - Huh?? 's begin

First thing is - the start menu - YES its gone. I got it (after 20 minutes of trying to locate it)
Remember running "Start" button billboards all over cities when 95 came out?

You clicked it and got the menu?
Good or bad - Id venture to say closing in on 15 years later releasing all versions of windows with a start menu - did no one think... "hey - maybe we should keep the startmenu on the desktop part... or add it as an option"

Perhaps they did - and others said - "no - then we'll get labeled as just taping metro over windows - we have to make them be one thing"

Sounds noble doesnt it?

Problem is they arnt one thing. Read all the comments about gorilla arm and secretaries and no touch capability -

Combing the 2 UI's together like this - might work - for windows 9 - or even 10) but right now it seems like a frankenstien - too much too soon not ready for primetime

On half the UI we right mouse and properties and customization - on the metro side we have none
On one half we have great full screen browsing - with no disney or barbie - i guess the kids can launch the windows "tile" - open IE and use those sites there.

So many of the things Im seeing / trying - Im left shaking my head.

Havent seen this on cnn or anywhere on tv... when apple sneezes its reported. Youd think releasing first glance of windows answer to ipad and the future of windows computing would illicit some form of main stream media coverage - i saw none (tv im talking)

Perhaps you needed to release this - if only to hear and see all the threads and comments about - if there was one thing - how CONFUSING you have made things.. perhaps if id never used a computer before - id love it.. unfortunately ive been using them for decades - and am use to the idea of customizing anything and properties of everything.

All is not lost

There is still hope - re-work the start thing for one.  It could be as simple as keeping the regular win7 one - and beside it creating a new simple icon for Metro ("bolted on UI - bla bla" who cares - ) - just make the metro icon beside start - but with in the start area (not just an icon- more important.

NEXT - immediately release whatever the devs here are saying they SAW you present. Get that out next week - or at least the missing customization pieces to Metro. 

After that - delete all those sample apps - and just stick photos, media, tuner, browser, videos etc there.  Show me how metro displays photos on my pc - not how some jerky games breaks UI rules.

That should get you too a warm and fuzzy place....  best of luck

(ok - let me have it!  )

@jamie:

close, at this point i am also wanting to have the option to run a "non metro" system if i want to.

i think they are trying to make one system work for two very different kinds of useage and that's not a simple thing to tackle.

the "metro" side of it i think will work very well for a slate/tablet device where that is the primary way it's used. 

but the merger of the two .... not so sure how it will go over by and large....

I *HOPE* that what they said about this build  missing many features is true.  I know that the early betas for XP and vista and win 7 were not what we saw in the rtm builds.

The sample Metro apps were created by summer interns. It's ludicrous to compare those apps to those in the iTunes App Store and think Microsoft is "behind Apple". Besides, how many of those apps in the iTunes App Store were developed by Apple themselves?

The sample Metro apps were created by summer interns

...and they look and work like it.

Besides, how many of those apps in the iTunes App Store were developed by Apple themselves?

all the GOOD ones?

disclaimer - i hate itunes - i hate apple. i want an ipad without itunes

metro was what i was waiting for - on a cheap 200 dollar tablet - subsidized by ms - to flood the market full of oem choices

They dont need to make windows and metro one seemless thing (good luck on that)

they need to have metro (with windows) get on 100 million low price tablets

Later - you charge - and use subscriptions etc

we need MS tablets - like AOL discs right now - or there will BE no more beachhead to protect

ps - the sky is falling lol buck buck

4 minutes ago,jamie wrote

...and they look and work like it.

Let's see what you can throw together in 10 weeks.

The sample apps were thrown together by interns running on very early bits of a developing technology as rough proof-of-concept things. They aren't going to be in the final product and they aren't meant to be anything but simple samples. A lot of the other comments are at way too early a stage to make any real judgement, there is undoubtedly lots more UI work (particularly on the look of the desktop) that hasn't been integrated at such an early stage.

I don't think putting the old Start menu back is the right approach, having options to go back to 'classic' look has often been the source of uncomfortable UI issues that have plagued recent versions of Windows. If you're going to do a reinvention right you have to have the courage of your convictions. That said, a quicker way to launch apps from the desktop view is needed, a pop-up list of "Live Tiles" on the taskbar would probably do the job.

@cbae

there are those here that know i could beat some of those samples in 4 hours let a lone a week

point is - i couldnt because id ask for UI guidelines that seem to be non-existant (based on what the interns created)

"coming this fall:  What The Interns Created! in 3d gore-a-rama!"

@jamie: You can make Metro apps with HTML and CSS, now is your time to prove your point!

i just thought they were unprofessional and made the preview look amatuer - here's to supporting young programmers tho!

edit - why wasnt photos and music and videos and docs etc the main tiles? or right up there..
why a bunch of weird games? and strange stuff?

PS - RE ABOVE Startmenu:  Have you SEEN how companies abuse the start menu? Load your PC after loading win8 and watch those USELESS tiles all accumulate...click...unpin...click....unpin  rinse and repeat

"all is not lost" - I like your sense of drama!

2 minutes ago,jamie wrote

i just thought they were unprofessional and made the preview look amatuer - here's to supporting young programmers tho!

This is a "Developer Preview", so maybe the intent was to light fires under a$$es by making professional developers think "I can do better than that!" Or it was to show that Metro app development is so easy even an intern can do it.

7 minutes ago,jamie wrote

PS - RE ABOVE Startmenu:  Have you SEEN how companies abuse the start menu? Load your PC after loading win8 and watch those USELESS tiles all accumulate...click...unpin...click....unpin  rinse and repeat

At least with Metro apps, you can uninstall right from the start menu.

2 minutes ago,exoteric wrote

"all is not lost" - I like your sense of drama!

lol - gotta have drama!

4 minutes ago,cbae wrote

*snip*

This is a "Developer Preview", so maybe the intent was to light fires under a$$es by making professional developers think "I can do better than that!" Or it was to show that Metro app development is so easy even an intern can do it.

I think the obvious point here is to show how great applications on the new platformlook and feel. The point is not to invent 10-20 new full featured Metro desktop applications for this demo purpose. These Metro applications will come in time - thepreview development tools have only just been released after all.

Common sense ftw.

Looking forward to diving into .Net 4.5 and Metro...

+1 for the need of a better task switcher. Even Mango is light years ahead.

On a side note, it seems that Win8 tablets won't have the mandatory hardware buttons of WP, so the experience between phone and tablet won't be that seamless. No big deal, but I think they missed an opportunity here.

As for the desktop, I don't think we will have an MS sanctioned start menu replacement, or even just an option. I'm only guessing, of course, but if they introduced that, everybody would just end up living entrenched in the desktop environment (like everybody wanted to turn off the UAC in Vista) and Metro would become a lonely place like Media Center. Goodbye Metro apps, goodbye store, goodbye developer opportunities. I don't think they'll let this happen.

56 minutes ago,cbae wrote

*snip*

Let's see what you can throw together in 10 weeks.

10 weeks starting 10 weeks ago.  That means a much less stable platform.  Moving parts, probably having to install new Windows builds daily, and providing detailed bug reports and feedback.  And in some cases I suspect the interns had to learn XAML, Javascript, C#, and C++ (since I bet they had different groups use different technologies). 

"There is still hope - re-work the start thing for one.  It could be as simple as keeping the regular win7 one - and beside it creating a new simple icon for Metro ("bolted on UI - bla bla" who cares - ) - just make the metro icon beside start - but with in the start area (not just an icon- more important."

@jamie: I agree. Maybe they could call it "Launchpad".

But seriously, how about having the Start button on the taskbar be just another user replaceable button like other pinned app buttons? Then have one that shows a Win7 style start menu, and one that brings up the new Start Screen. Let the user have one or the other or both on the taskbar and choose which one gets the coveted corner spot. And have a setting for which one the Win button is assigned to. Tablets would be set to the new one by default and desktops to the "classic" (and the later would boot to the desktop).

And while we're revving up the photocopiers, I think Lion's full screen mode may be a better scheme for tablet/touch oriented apps on an OS that still has a desktop.