(Currently getting around 800kbs)

How about you guys ?

ZippyV wrote

You don't need a product key during install so you can wait until the site is stable again.

Well I downloaded it without any issues, but the first thing it does during the install IS asks for my product key ... and that's the bit I can't do, cos MSDN just crashes. 

Also, what is "Windows 8 Pro"? I thought it was going to be called Windows 8 Enterprise.

1 minute ago, cbae wrote

Anybody know the difference between Windows 8 and Windows 8 N?

Also, what is "Windows 8 Pro"? I thought it was going to be called Windows 8 Enterprise.

N is the media free version for the EU. You don't want that.

Enterprise is different to Pro. For consumers you'll just see Win8 and Win8 pro (and RT)

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/04/16/announcing-the-windows-8-editions.aspx

First thoughts...why does setup use Aero Glass like in Win7? (just the look, not the actual GPU rendered theme)

(that said, I have no idea if the Pro keys are available in BizSpark)

39 minutes ago, PaoloM wrote

The Windows 8 download is both for 8 and 8 Pro. It will change according to the key you provide.

(that said, I have no idea if the Pro keys are available in BizSpark)

You get 5 keys for each with BizSpark

Strange that I can only claim 5 keys each for both editions, while I could get 10 with WinXP/Vista/7. (Not that it matters to me as I don't need that many keys anyway, but it's just strange.)

Just out of curiosity, can you reclaim keys, like you can reclaim iTunes machine authorizations?

-Josh

For most other OS version, I just need 1 or 2 keys.

4 minutes ago, ZippyV wrote

I installed Windows 8 enterprise yesterday. During install it didn't even ask for a key.

Pro does ask for a key, and cannot be installed without one. It also automatically activates if you're connected to the Internet. So much for the old advice of not activating virtual machines.

The RTM also still defaults to "private network", complete with a home group, with my direct Internet connection with public IP address. It's like the least secure configuration possible. And the way to change it to private is no longer available in the Network and Sharing Center, but hidden in the charms bar and confusingly named "turn sharing on or off".

Other than that, it's definitely a lot smoother and more polished than the CP was (never tried the RP). We'll see how it goes.

Herbie

3 hours ago, Dr Herbie wrote

So has anyone spotted any differences from the preview releases?

No Aero glass effects on windows any more.

1 hour ago, PerfectPhase wrote

*snip*

No Aero glass effects on windows any more.

Yeah, when I first saw it, I thought it was butt-ugly. I still think it's ugly, but I do have to admit that I don't notice it that much during regular usage.

I just wish Office 2013 (decided to use the preview, hadn't used it before) wasn't so white. I always used the blue theme in 2010 because I thought the default gray one was too bland, and now it's even blander with no alternatives.

I have to wonder, if you were to show the Windows 7 and 8 desktop UIs side-by-side to someone who has never seen either (let's say, some hypothetical person who had never seen a version of Windows since Windows 95) and ask them which one is the more modern UI, what they would answer.

One minor annoyance so far: the "Computer Management" option in the right-click corner menu opens a non-elevated instance of MMC if you're a regular user (which I am), whereas the "Manage" option on the Computer entry in the start menu would always ask to elevate. There's no easy way to open an elevated computer management instance, since it doesn't appear in the start screen search either. Easiest way I've found is to open an elevated command prompt and run compmgmt.msc.

I'm also really missing the start menu MRU list and I hate that after every install I have to remove a whole slew of pointless tiles from the start screen. I'm also missing the Documents/Music/etc. options from the right-hand side of the start menu, and am slowly getting used to using a pinned instance of Explorer (I never had that pinned before). These are complaints I've made before.

It's not as bad as I feared, anyway. Metro doesn't get in the way too often, and the whole OS feels very fast and smooth. And since it seems the network issues that forced me to abandon the previews are gone, I hope I'll have a chance to see if I can get used to it this time.

It's weird, though. Ever since Windows 2000, I've been part of the process. I was invited into the technical beta for Windows 2000 at the beta 3 stage, and used it as my primary OS almost immediately (only falling back to 98 for some games due to driver issues). I filed bugs and conversed with the development team in the beta newsgroups, and when it was released I was proud to say I had some (small) part in the final product.

With XP I was there from the earliest days of the technical beta, before beta 1 even. I was very active during that one, installing every new build and giving a ton of feedback. And again, when it was released, I felt that in some small degree it was "my" OS.

With Vista, it started to get less. We got fewer builds, and it felt like the feedback of the external beta sites was less important than before. Still, some difference was made (like the return of list view in explorer), and it was still "my" OS, though less so.

Windows 7 was the beginning of the end for the technical beta program. There was less interaction with the devs in the newsgroups, and although they still listened to the feedback on Connect (since the old WindowsBetaWeb was no more), it felt we were somewhat out of the loop. This was strengthened by the fact that we got the same builds as the public (just the milestones), and that beta 1 was already so far along that there was no chance to influence the design like with XP or Vista.

I was in the Windows 7 SP1 beta. I might as well not have been. We were ignored. Only one build, never saw any MS people on the newsgroups.

Windows 8, I don't know if there was a real beta program like the old Windows versions had, but if there was, I wasn't invited (and I haven't heard about it). Sure, you could submit feedback on the public builds, but it felt like MS was plotting its own course regardless. And unfortunately I also didn't have the time to commit to an in-depth bug hunt like I'd done before.

So this is the first version of Windows where I've had no influence whatsoever over the final product. It seems that under Sinofsky the days of the technical beta program and being part of Windows are well and truly over. The end of an era, for me.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/Activating-Windows-frequently-asked-questions

I like the fact that Window borders now use the dominant desktop background color, by the way. I was confused by the bettafish at first, but then I realised it must've synced my stuff over from the RP.

Herbie

By the way, you can download the 90 day evaluation even if you don't have MSDN or Technet.

Also, several optional features of .Net 4.5 (appears to be stuff that's not part of the Client Framework like ASP.NET) appear under the "Turn Windows features on or off" dialog (.Net 3.5 also appears there, but is not selected by default, like you I got a prompt to install it when I installed the Windows Essentials).

Herbie

(minus) licensed on up to 2 processors on the licensed computer.

(plus) allows up to 20 devices to connect for file services, print services, iis, and internet connection sharing.

(minus) remote desktop to Windows 8 by "other" users requires the "other" users to be running Windows 8 or Windows RT.  not sure what "other" really means.

(minus) h.264/avc, mpeg-4, and vc-1 stuff is for consumer use only.  will need to check and see what business users can do to prevent violating.  looks like nothing needs to be done after reading the mpegla stuff but not sure completely yet.

2 hours ago, Dr Herbie wrote

Can anyone tell me which version of .NET are included in Win8 by default? (No I don't have MSDN or Technet).

Herbie

4.0 as far as I can tell.

Our software is 3.5 and someone's bound to ask it it will run on Win8 clients, so it will be nice to have some information for them before we get around to actually installing it somewhere and testing it.

Herbie

1 day ago, Sven Groot wrote

I have to wonder, if you were to show the Windows 7 and 8 desktop UIs side-by-side to someone who has never seen either (let's say, some hypothetical person who had never seen a version of Windows since Windows 95) and ask them which one is the more modern UI, what they would answer.

If you show them 2 static screenshots, then W7 has nicer effects... but if you show them real-time videos w/ animations and stuff, then I'd say there is no comparison

8 minutes ago, Dr Herbie wrote

@PaoloM: Thanks.

Our software is 3.5 and someone's bound to ask it it will run on Win8 clients, so it will be nice to have some information for them before we get around to actually installing it somewhere and testing it.

Herbie

Windows 8 comes with .Net 4.5, it seems. Odds are good your 3.5 app will run on that, but if it doesn't .Net 3.5 is available in the Windows features control panel.

12 minutes ago, Minh wrote

*snip*

If you show them 2 static screenshots, then W7 has nicer effects... but if you show them real-time videos w/ animations and stuff, then I'd say there is no comparison

 

I'm talking only about the desktop UI though, so you can't show them the Metro stuff.

5 hours ago, Sven Groot wrote

@Bas: I also already installed VS, but there is no entry for .Net 4.5 in Add/Remove Programs (only the multi-targeting pack), so it's a given that .Net 4.5 is included.

Also, several optional features of .Net 4.5 (appears to be stuff that's not part of the Client Framework like ASP.NET) appear under the "Turn Windows features on or off" dialog (.Net 3.5 also appears there, but is not selected by default, like you I got a prompt to install it when I installed the Windows Essentials).

It doesn't even look like 3.5 comes with the Windows 8 setup files. When I "turned it on", it appeared that the .NET 3.5 framework setup was downloading over the web.

If you're playing music in Xbox Music and you drag the app down to close it, the music actually fades out with the app. It doesn't immediately stop like in most apps to provide a jarring experience. It's all very fluid.

There's no button...it's just a gap that can be pressed. Guess they forgot.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=INVALID_IO_BOOST_STATE

2 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

*snip*

Thanks for the details. Not a great experience on a clean install especially using all out-of-box certified & signed drivers. I didn't even have a chance to install anything on it before it BSOD'd. I don't think grandma is gonna care whose to blame here. She'll just go buy an iPad.

Just out of interest, was this a raw out-of-the-box install? Or did you install any other drivers (e.g. graphics drivers or IDE drivers) that didn't come in the box?

Also I think Microsoft has long since learnt to live with the fact that anything that goes wrong on a PC somehow gets blamed on them - but at least in fairness, nobody's grandma is going to be buying a non-OEM version of Windows8. CD installs of Windows are < 5% of all Windows sales.

2 minutes ago, evildictait​or wrote

Ok cool - IDA pro FTW - INVALID_IO_BOOST_STATE is apparently one of the new integrity checking bugchecks in Windows8 to check that drivers are behaving properly.

It occurs when IO-boosting is applied to a thread which then dies before the IO-boosting is yielded, typically as a result of a resource lock being obtained and then released.

Windows7 didn't bother to check for this eventuality, so your buggy driver would have just sat there as a ticking timebomb leaking non-paged memory every now and then and occasionally bugchecking your system. In Windows8 the driver's misdeeds are detected when the thread that owns the lock is torn down.

Thanks for the details. Not a great experience on a clean install especially using all out-of-box certified & signed drivers. I didn't even have a chance to install anything on it before it BSOD'd. I don't think grandma is gonna care whose to blame here. She'll just go buy an iPad.

3 hours ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

*snip*

Thanks for the details. Not a great experience on a clean install especially using all out-of-box certified & signed drivers. I didn't even have a chance to install anything on it before it BSOD'd. I don't think grandma is gonna care whose to blame here. She'll just go buy an iPad.

His point is that grandma would never see a BSOD because she'd never be installing the OS from disc (or ISO).

I have a 6-year old notebook that's been a b1tch to find working display drivers for. Every hacked Windows 8 display driver I've been able to find causes the screen to go dim because it doesn't work properly with my computer's brightness controls.

The thing is, I had to deal with the same * when I installed Windows 7 on it a couple years ago. It's amazing that the display driver is the only thing on this old POS that isn't working properly in Windows 8. For now, I have to live with a skewed 1600 x 1200 display (the native resolution is 1920 x 1200) until I find the right driver.

I'm not sure if this was in RP or not, but it's the first time I noticed it.

4 hours ago, cbae wrote

@DeathByVisualStudio: Most OEMs test their computers for driver compatibility before they let them go out in the wild. Given the countless number of available peripherals, they're probably going to select the combinations that don't cause BSODs.

I have a 6-year old notebook that's been a b1tch to find working display drivers for. Every hacked Windows 8 display driver I've been able to find causes the screen to go dim because it doesn't work properly with my computer's brightness controls.

The thing is, I had to deal with the same * when I installed Windows 7 on it a couple years ago. It's amazing that the display driver is the only thing on this old POS that isn't working properly in Windows 8. For now, I have to live with a skewed 1600 x 1200 display (the native resolution is 1920 x 1200) until I find the right driver.

So you have an old POS notebook. Congrats on cobbling together a working solution. That still has zero impact on my OOB experience no grandma's down the road. Microsoft certifies the drivers, the oem tests the integration and still you get BSOD, W7, W8 regardless it still doesn't compare with Apple's OOB experience and that's what Microsoft needs to meet or exceed, I was hoping for better. Since this mornings episode I've had IE hang 4 times. Not a problem on any of the other previews.  Quality - it's in the box...

12 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

*snip*

So you have an old POS notebook. Congrats on cobbling together a working solution.That still has zero impact on my OOB experience no grandma's down the road.

You seem to have bug up your * about Windows 8 and love to complain about how shitty the overall experience is compared to Windows 7. So I brought up my old POS notebook to point out that when I installed Windows 8 on it, the video driver compatibility issues were no different from when I installed Windows 7. Considering that my hardware is another 2 years older than it was when I upgraded XP to Windows 7, having only a display driver issue is pleasantly surprising. Beyond that, the OOBE of Windows 8 was quite pleasant. The installation of the OS itself went quickly and flawlessly. 

Microsoft certifies the drivers, the oem tests the integration and still you get BSOD, W7, W8 regardless it still doesn't compare with Apple's OOB experience and that's what Microsoft needs to meet or exceed, I was hoping for better.

Are you seriously comparing the OOBE of installing Windows 8 on whatever hardware you yourself cobbled together vs. buying a brand spanking new MacBook Pro? Seriously? Compare apples to apples, my friend.

And why do you keep bringing up Grandma? Grandma's OOBE experience isn't going to consist of downloading an ISO, burning it onto a DVD, and then installing it onto an old Windows 7 machine. Grandma's OOBE experience will be unboxing a brand spanking new Windows 8 notebook by HP that she bought from BestBuy. That experience will be a lot closer to somebody else's grandma unboxing an iPad than it is to your or my OOBE installing Windows 8 onto an old Windows 7 machine.

Since this mornings episode I've had IE hang 4 times. Not a problem on any of the other previews.  Quality - it's in the box...

Browsers are browsers, and browsers hang--a lot. And it's not just IE. I've had Chrome hang or had the Flash plugin for Chrome crash on Windows 7 more often than I can count, and it hasn't been much better on Windows 8. You can't blame the OS for a browser hanging on you.

Beyond bad drivers and browser crashes I'm sure she's going to love the quality apps included in her brand new W8 PC; you know like the Mail app that instantly crashed on me when adding my Gmail account. I haven't are near as many hang-ups and crashes so back-to-back on any of the previews.

So I guess plug-in free Metro IE doesn't really help on browser lockups. The funny thing is one of the times it croaked it was when I was refreshing the thread list here on this forum. For the record all of the browser lockups and crashes occurred on Metro IE.

Yeah the beta test is over! Cake for everyone!

15 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

Beyond bad drivers and browser crashes I'm sure she's going to love the quality apps included in her brand new W8 PC; you know like the Mail app

Don't forget the quality ads she will get served by the built-in weather app.

5 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

Beyond bad drivers and browser crashes I'm sure she's going to love the quality apps included in her brand new W8 PC; you know like the Mail app that instantly crashed on me when adding my Gmail account. I haven't are near as many hang-ups and crashes so back-to-back on any of the previews.

So I guess plug-in free Metro IE doesn't really help on browser lockups. The funny thing is one of the times it croaked it was when I was refreshing the thread list here on this forum. For the record all of the browser lockups and crashes occurred on Metro IE.

Yeah the beta test is over! Cake for everyone! 

If you're having driver troubles, it's hardly surprising that apps are locking up and randomly dying.

Care to give us a list of your drivers? To do this run "driverquery > out.txt" from a command prompt.

All OOB stuff. I haven't done anything funky with the tablet yet. Device manager looks good too; no unknown devices or whammies. Thanks.

*EDIT*: This morning I installed Visual Studio, Office 2012, and MotoDev Studio so this list may include some additions since my bad OOB yesterday.

Module Name  Display Name           Driver Type   Link Date            
============ ====================== ============= ======================
1394ohci     1394 OHCI Compliant Ho Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:46 PM 
3ware        3ware                  Kernel        3/8/2012 12:33:45 PM 
ACPI         Microsoft ACPI Driver  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:26 PM 
acpials      ALS Sensor Filter      Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:02 PM 
acpiex       Microsoft ACPIEx Drive Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:57 PM 
acpipagr     ACPI Processor Aggrega Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:16 PM 
AcpiPmi      ACPI Power Meter Drive Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:33 PM 
acpitime     ACPI Wake Alarm Driver Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:37 PM 
adp94xx      adp94xx                Kernel        12/5/2008 3:54:42 PM 
adpahci      adpahci                Kernel        5/1/2007 10:30:09 AM 
adpu320      adpu320                Kernel        2/27/2007 4:04:15 PM 
AFD          Ancillary Function Dri Kernel        7/25/2012 7:24:27 PM 
agp440       Intel AGP Bus Filter   Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:13 PM 
AmdK8        AMD K8 Processor Drive Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:48 PM 
AmdPPM       AMD Processor Driver   Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:48 PM 
amdsata      amdsata                Kernel        6/11/2012 3:19:56 PM 
amdsbs       amdsbs                 Kernel        2/21/2012 10:15:43 AM
amdxata      amdxata                Kernel        6/11/2012 3:36:48 PM 
AppID        AppID Driver           Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:12 PM 
arc          arc                    Kernel        3/19/2012 10:49:21 AM
arcsas       Adaptec SAS/SATA-II RA Kernel        3/19/2012 10:51:00 AM
AsyncMac     RAS Asynchronous Media Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:25 PM 
atapi        IDE Channel            Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:33 PM 
athr         Qualcomm Atheros Exten Kernel        3/21/2012 8:26:22 PM 
b06bdrv      Broadcom NetXtreme II  Kernel        5/14/2012 2:42:24 PM 
BasicDisplay BasicDisplay           Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:08 PM 
BasicRender  BasicRender            Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:51 PM 
Beep         Beep                   Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:19 PM 
bowser       Browser Support Driver File System   7/25/2012 7:28:01 PM 
BthAvrcpTg   Bluetooth Audio/Video  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:27 PM 
BthEnum      Bluetooth Enumerator S Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:17 PM 
BthHFEnum    Bluetooth Hands-Free A Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:13 PM 
bthhfhid     Bluetooth Hands-Free C Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:30 PM 
BTHMODEM     Bluetooth Serial Commu Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:11 PM 
BthPan       Bluetooth Device (Pers Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:42 PM 
BTHPORT      Bluetooth Port Driver  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:24:01 PM 
BTHUSB       Bluetooth Radio USB Dr Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:16 PM 
cdfs         CD/DVD File System Rea File System   7/25/2012 7:30:10 PM 
cdrom        CD-ROM Driver          Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:36 PM 
circlass     Consumer IR Devices    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:06 PM 
CLFS         Common Log (CLFS)      Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:39 PM 
CmBatt       Microsoft ACPI Control Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:20 PM 
CNG          CNG                    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:34 PM 
CompositeBus Composite Bus Enumerat Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:03 PM 
condrv       Console Driver         Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:08 PM 
CSC          Offline Files Driver   Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:53 PM 
dam          Desktop Activity Moder Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:21 PM 
Dfsc         DFS Namespace Client D File System   7/25/2012 7:26:53 PM 
discache     System Attribute Cache Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:23 PM 
disk         Disk Driver            Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:25 PM 
dmvsc        dmvsc                  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:57 PM 
drmkaud      Microsoft Trusted Audi Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:51 PM 
DXGKrnl      LDDM Graphics Subsyste Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:27 PM 
ebdrv        Broadcom NetXtreme II  Kernel        5/13/2012 8:32:42 AM 
EhStorClass  Enhanced Storage Filte Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:24 PM 
EhStorTcgDrv Microsoft driver for s Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:41 PM 
ErrDev       Microsoft Hardware Err Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:13 PM 
exfat        exFAT File System Driv File System   7/25/2012 7:30:22 PM 
fastfat      FAT12/16/32 File Syste File System   7/25/2012 7:30:23 PM 
fdc          Floppy Disk Controller Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:15 PM 
FileInfo     File Information FS Mi File System   7/25/2012 7:28:02 PM 
Filetrace    Filetrace              File System   7/25/2012 7:29:09 PM 
flpydisk     Floppy Disk Driver     Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:15 PM 
FltMgr       FltMgr                 File System   7/25/2012 7:30:09 PM 
FsDepends    File System Dependency File System   7/25/2012 7:29:11 PM 
fvevol       BitLocker Drive Encryp Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:46 PM 
FxPPM        Power Framework Proces Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:58 PM 
gagp30kx     Microsoft Generic AGPv Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:14 PM 
gencounter   Microsoft Hyper-V Gene Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:58 PM 
GPIOClx0101  Microsoft GPIO Class E Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:13 PM 
GTNDIS62     GT62 UHS IP NDIS       Kernel        11/2/2011 3:29:55 AM 
GTUHSBUS     GT UHS BUS             Kernel        10/3/2011 8:42:32 AM 
GTUHSSER     GT UHS SER             Kernel        10/3/2011 8:41:03 AM 
HdAudAddServ Microsoft 1.1 UAA Func Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:49 PM 
HDAudBus     Microsoft UAA Bus Driv Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:35 PM 
HidBatt      HID UPS Battery Driver Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:45 PM 
HidBth       Microsoft Bluetooth HI Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:06 PM 
hidi2c       Microsoft I2C HID Mini Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:54 PM 
HidIr        Microsoft Infrared HID Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:06 PM 
HidUsb       Microsoft HID Class Dr Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:25 PM 
HpSAMD       HpSAMD                 Kernel        5/30/2012 3:24:33 PM 
HTTP         HTTP Service           Kernel        7/25/2012 7:24:55 PM 
hwpolicy     Hardware Policy Driver Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:51 PM 
hyperkbd     hyperkbd               Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:00 PM 
HyperVideo   HyperVideo             Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:03 PM 
i8042prt     i8042 Keyboard and PS/ Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:50 PM 
iaStorV      Intel RAID Controller  Kernel        4/11/2011 11:48:16 AM
igfx         igfx                   Kernel        5/24/2012 9:24:33 PM 
iirsp        iirsp                  Kernel        12/13/2005 1:47:54 PM
intelide     intelide               Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:52 PM 
intelppm     Intel Processor Driver Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:48 PM 
IpFilterDriv IP Traffic Filter Driv Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:02 PM 
IPNAT        IP Network Address Tra Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:01 PM 
IRENUM       IR Bus Enumerator      Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:54 PM 
isapnp       isapnp                 Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:02 PM 
iScsiPrt     iScsiPort Driver       Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:03 PM 
kbdclass     Keyboard Class Driver  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:47 PM 
kbdhid       Keyboard HID Driver    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:49 PM 
kdnic        Microsoft Kernel Debug Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:41 PM 
KSecDD       KSecDD                 Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:35 PM 
KSecPkg      KSecPkg                Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:35 PM 
ksthunk      Kernel Streaming Thunk Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:58 PM 
lltdio       Link-Layer Topology Di Kernel        7/25/2012 7:24:02 PM 
LSI_SAS      LSI_SAS                Kernel        5/11/2012 12:40:21 PM
LSI_SAS2     LSI_SAS2               Kernel        3/12/2012 1:28:53 PM 
LSI_SCSI     LSI_SCSI               Kernel        2/21/2012 3:59:35 PM 
LSI_SSS      LSI_SSS                Kernel        2/21/2012 4:00:12 PM 
luafv        UAC File Virtualizatio File System   7/25/2012 7:29:13 PM 
megasas      megasas                Kernel        4/3/2012 12:45:15 PM 
MegaSR       MegaSR                 Kernel        2/24/2012 10:22:15 AM
MEIx64       Intel(R) Management En Kernel        10/19/2010 4:33:43 PM
Modem        Modem                  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:07 PM 
monitor      Microsoft Monitor Clas Kernel        7/25/2012 7:24:55 PM 
mouclass     Mouse Class Driver     Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:47 PM 
mouhid       Mouse HID Driver       Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:47 PM 
mountmgr     Mount Point Manager    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:33 PM 
mpsdrv       Windows Firewall Autho Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:38 PM 
MRxDAV       WebDav Client Redirect File System   7/25/2012 7:26:02 PM 
mrxsmb       SMB MiniRedirector Wra File System   7/25/2012 7:23:24 PM 
mrxsmb10     SMB 1.x MiniRedirector File System   7/25/2012 7:23:06 PM 
mrxsmb20     SMB 2.0 MiniRedirector File System   7/25/2012 7:27:00 PM 
MsBridge     Microsoft MAC Bridge   Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:17 PM 
Msfs         Msfs                   File System   7/25/2012 7:30:24 PM 
msgpiowin32  GPIO Buttons Driver    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:27 PM 
mshidkmdf    Pass-through HID to KM Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:24 PM 
mshidumdf    Pass-through HID to UM Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:14 PM 
msisadrv     msisadrv               Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:02 PM 
MSKSSRV      Microsoft Streaming Se Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:55 PM 
MSPCLOCK     Microsoft Streaming Cl Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:55 PM 
MSPQM        Microsoft Streaming Qu Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:57 PM 
MsRPC        MsRPC                  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:37 PM 
mssmbios     Microsoft System Manag Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:19 PM 
MSTEE        Microsoft Streaming Te Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:37 PM 
MTConfig     Microsoft Input Config Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:11 PM 
Mup          Mup                    File System   7/25/2012 7:30:00 PM 
mvumis       mvumis                 Kernel        3/20/2012 12:43:50 AM
NativeWifiP  NativeWiFi Filter      Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:11 PM 
NDIS         NDIS System Driver     Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:20 PM 
NdisCap      Microsoft NDIS Capture Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:30 PM 
NdisImPlatfo Microsoft Network Adap Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:01 PM 
NdisTapi     Remote Access NDIS TAP Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:39 PM 
Ndisuio      NDIS Usermode I/O Prot Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:21 PM 
NdisWan      Remote Access NDIS WAN Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:13 PM 
NDISWANLEGAC Remote Access LEGACY N Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:13 PM 
NDProxy      NDIS Proxy             Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:41 PM 
Ndu          Windows Network Data U Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:41 PM 
NetBIOS      NetBIOS Interface      File System   7/25/2012 7:28:19 PM 
NetBT        NetBT                  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:24:26 PM 
nfrd960      nfrd960                Kernel        6/6/2006 2:11:48 PM  
Npfs         Npfs                   File System   7/25/2012 7:30:26 PM 
npsvctrig    Named pipe service tri Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:33 PM 
nsiproxy     NSI Proxy Service Driv Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:00 PM 
Ntfs         Ntfs                   File System   7/25/2012 7:27:31 PM 
Null         Null                   Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:16 PM 
nvraid       nvraid                 Kernel        9/12/2011 5:01:54 PM 
nvstor       nvstor                 Kernel        9/12/2011 4:53:04 PM 
nv_agp       NVIDIA nForce AGP Bus  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:16 PM 
Parport      Parallel port driver   Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:53 PM 
partmgr      Partition Manager      Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:03 PM 
pci          PCI Bus Driver         Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:43 PM 
pciide       pciide                 Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:52 PM 
pcmcia       pcmcia                 Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:45 PM 
pcw          Performance Counters f Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:44 PM 
pdc          pdc                    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:10 PM 
PEAUTH       PEAUTH                 Kernel        7/25/2012 7:24:24 PM 
PptpMiniport WAN Miniport (PPTP)    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:13 PM 
Processor    Processor Driver       Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:48 PM 
Psched       QoS Packet Scheduler   Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:05 PM 
QWAVEdrv     QWAVE driver           Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:00 PM 
RasAcd       Remote Access Auto Con Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:49 PM 
RasAgileVpn  WAN Miniport (IKEv2)   Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:11 PM 
Rasl2tp      WAN Miniport (L2TP)    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:16 PM 
RasPppoe     Remote Access PPPOE Dr Kernel        7/25/2012 7:24:55 PM 
RasSstp      WAN Miniport (SSTP)    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:59 PM 
rdbss        Redirected Buffering S File System   7/25/2012 7:25:57 PM 
rdpbus       Remote Desktop Device  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:19 PM 
RDPDR        Remote Desktop Device  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:18 PM 
RdpVideoMini Remote Desktop Video M Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:31 PM 
RDPWD        RDP Winstation Driver  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:24 PM 
rdyboost     ReadyBoost             Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:34 PM 
RFCOMM       Bluetooth Device (RFCO Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:24 PM 
rspndr       Link-Layer Topology Di Kernel        7/25/2012 7:24:06 PM 
RTL8168      Realtek 8168 NT Driver Kernel        10/19/2011 5:12:55 AM
s3cap        s3cap                  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:16 PM 
sbp2port     SBP-2 Transport/Protoc Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:48 PM 
scfilter     Smart card PnP Class F Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:04 PM 
sdbus        sdbus                  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:50 PM 
sdstor       SD Storage Port Driver Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:11 PM 
secdrv       Security Driver        Kernel        9/13/2006 6:18:38 AM 
SensorsAlsDr UMDF Reflector service Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:06 PM 
SensorsHIDCl UMDF Reflector service Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:06 PM 
SensorsServi UMDF Reflector service Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:06 PM 
SensorsSimul UMDF Reflector service Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:06 PM 
SerCx        Serial UART Support Li Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:46 PM 
Serenum      Serenum Filter Driver  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:13 PM 
Serial       Serial port driver     Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:01 PM 
sermouse     Serial Mouse Driver    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:50 PM 
sfloppy      High-Capacity Floppy D Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:47 PM 
silabenm     Silicon Labs CP210x US Kernel        5/27/2010 3:13:54 PM 
silabser     Silicon Labs CP210x US Kernel        1/10/2011 8:41:18 AM 
SiSRaid2     SiSRaid2               Kernel        9/24/2008 11:28:20 AM
SiSRaid4     SiSRaid4               Kernel        10/1/2008 2:56:04 PM 
spaceport    Storage Spaces Driver  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:36 PM 
SpbCx        Simple Peripheral Bus  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:43 PM 
srv          Server SMB 1.xxx Drive File System   7/25/2012 7:25:28 PM 
srv2         Server SMB 2.xxx Drive File System   7/25/2012 7:25:31 PM 
srvnet       srvnet                 File System   7/25/2012 7:23:17 PM 
stexstor     stexstor               Kernel        11/18/2011 4:27:32 PM
storahci     Microsoft Standard SAT Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:35 PM 
storflt      Hyper-V Storage Accele Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:47 PM 
storvsc      storvsc                Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:51 PM 
storvsp      storvsp                Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:22 PM 
swenum       Software Bus Driver    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:53 PM 
Synth3dVsc   Microsoft Virtual 3D V Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:55 PM 
Tcpip        TCP/IP Protocol Driver Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:24 PM 
TCPIP6       Microsoft IPv6 Protoco Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:24 PM 
tcpipreg     TCP/IP Registry Compat Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:13 PM 
tdx          NetIO Legacy TDI Suppo Kernel        7/25/2012 7:24:58 PM 
terminpt     Microsoft Remote Deskt Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:53 PM 
TPM          TPM                    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:28 PM 
TsUsbFlt     TsUsbFlt               Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:55 PM 
TsUsbGD      Remote Desktop Generic Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:34 PM 
tsusbhub     tsusbhub               Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:42 PM 
tunnel       Microsoft Tunnel Minip Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:04 PM 
uagp35       Microsoft AGPv3.5 Filt Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:13 PM 
UASPStor     USB Attached SCSI (UAS Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:04 PM 
UCX01000     USB Controller Extensi Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:09 PM 
udfs         udfs                   File System   7/25/2012 7:30:18 PM 
uliagpkx     Uli AGP Bus Filter     Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:15 PM 
umbus        UMBus Enumerator Drive Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:39 PM 
UmPass       Microsoft UMPass Drive Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:36 PM 
usbaudio     USB Audio Driver (WDM) Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:27 PM 
usbccgp      Microsoft USB Generic  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:06 PM 
usbcir       eHome Infrared Receive Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:07 PM 
usbehci      Microsoft USB 2.0 Enha Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:48 PM 
usbhub       Microsoft USB Standard Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:35 PM 
USBHUB3      SuperSpeed Hub         Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:37 PM 
usbohci      Microsoft USB Open Hos Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:59 PM 
usbprint     Microsoft USB PRINTER  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:24:50 PM 
USBSTOR      USB Mass Storage Drive Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:04 PM 
usbuhci      Microsoft USB Universa Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:00 PM 
usbvideo     USB Video Device (WDM) Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:03 PM 
USBXHCI      USB xHCI Compliant Hos Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:46 PM 
vdrvroot     Microsoft Virtual Driv Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:29 PM 
VerifierExt  VerifierExt            Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:18 PM 
vhdmp        vhdmp                  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:44 PM 
viaide       viaide                 Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:52 PM 
Vid          Vid                    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:26 PM 
vmbus        Virtual Machine Bus    Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:11 PM 
VMBusHID     VMBusHID               Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:34 PM 
vmbusr       Virtual Machine Bus Pr Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:12 PM 
volmgr       Volume Manager Driver  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:22 PM 
volmgrx      Dynamic Volume Manager Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:59 PM 
volsnap      Storage volumes        Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:26 PM 
vpci         Microsoft Hyper-V Virt Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:12 PM 
vpcivsp      Microsoft Hyper-V PCI  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:12 PM 
vsmraid      vsmraid                Kernel        1/31/2012 11:55:18 AM
VSPerfDrv110 Performance Tools Driv Kernel        7/1/2012 8:25:47 PM  
VSTXRAID     VIA StorX Storage Cont Kernel        3/26/2012 10:42:56 AM
vwifibus     Virtual WiFi Bus Drive Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:54 PM 
vwififlt     Virtual WiFi Filter Dr Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:39 PM 
vwifimp      Virtual WiFi Miniport  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:39 PM 
WacomPen     Wacom Serial Pen HID D Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:08 PM 
Wanarp       Remote Access IP ARP D Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:07 PM 
Wanarpv6     Remote Access IPv6 ARP Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:07 PM 
Wd           Microsoft Watchdog Tim Kernel        7/25/2012 7:30:12 PM 
WdBoot       Windows Defender Boot  Kernel        7/25/2012 7:28:04 PM 
Wdf01000     Kernel Mode Driver Fra Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:13 PM 
WdFilter     Windows Defender Mini- File System   7/25/2012 7:29:23 PM 
WFPLWFS      Microsoft Windows Filt Kernel        7/25/2012 7:23:58 PM 
WIMMount     WIMMount               File System   7/25/2012 7:29:45 PM 
WmiAcpi      Microsoft Windows Mana Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:53 PM 
wpcfltr      Family Safety Filter D Kernel        7/25/2012 7:25:13 PM 
WpdUpFltr    WPD Upper Class Filter Kernel        7/25/2012 7:27:29 PM 
ws2ifsl      Winsock IFS Driver     Kernel        7/25/2012 7:29:29 PM 
WudfPf       User Mode Driver Frame Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:45 PM 
WUDFRd       Windows Driver Foundat Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:06 PM 
WUDFSensorLP UMDF Reflector service Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:06 PM 
WUDFWpdFs    WUDFWpdFs              Kernel        7/25/2012 7:26:06 PM 

2 hours ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

@cbae: Dude you seriously need to get over yourself on the downloaded, installed DVD on crap hardware stuff. This is RTM software. This is what OEMs are going to ship. That's what Grandma is gonna buy on a new computer she gets from Best Buy -- you know comparable to buying an brand new iPad or MacBook.

Dude, you need to get over yourself on thinking your particular hardware is what's going to be sold by OEMs. Grandma ain't going to be getting the same year-old hardware as you currently have. Grandma is going to get brand new hardware that's been tested by the OEM over and over again with drivers that have been updated by the peripheral manufacturers.

Beyond bad drivers and browser crashes I'm sure she's going to love the quality apps included in her brand new W8 PC; you know like the Mail app that instantly crashed on me when adding my Gmail account. I haven't are near as many hang-ups and crashes so back-to-back on any of the previews.

You must have one really jacked up deployment. I've set-up my Gmail account in Windows 8 Mail on 3 different machines without any problems.

Herbie

2 hours ago, Dr Herbie wrote

@DeathByVisualStudio: What cbae is essentially saying is that OEMs will have ironed all these issues out before they release to Grandma (including writing new drivers if needed), making the OOB experience on the new hardware with Win8 pre-installed very similar to the experience with an iPad (but with varying amounts of crapware).

Herbie 

I understand what cbae is saying but I disagree. Driver issues can happen for any OEM especially if they use common parts or if the driver is Microsoft provided or some related OS flaw. OEM crapware only further adds to screwy acting systems. Add these two together on a new PC and Grandma will have a better experience on a new iPad or MacBook. I'm not saying I like that predicament for Microsoft. I'm just acknowledging that it exists and it sucks.

Being an early adopter of an OS on (effectively) untested hardware, you kind of have to expect this kind of thing. If you want the best end-user experience then best wait till Windows 8 hardware that's fully tested with the OS comes out.

A lot has been said about what Microsoft would fix or improve before release and I just don't see that happening. They're trying to be a lot of different things to a lot of different people and it's feeling a lot like Vista -- drivers et all. We'll see what happens upon final release.

13 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

*snip*

I understand what cbae is saying but I disagree. Driver issues can happen for any OEM especially if they use common parts or if the driver is Microsoft provided or some related OS flaw. OEM crapware only further adds to screwy acting systems. Add these two together on a new PC and Grandma will have a better experience on a new iPad or MacBook. I'm not saying I like that predicament for Microsoft. I'm just acknowledging that it exists and it sucks.

Driver issues can happen, sure. But OEMs don't slap together parts from NewEgg, install the OS, and call it a day. They source components from specific peripheral makers and install the drivers that they get directly from that supplier. Drivers for some devices, like for display adapters, are even specially designed for the OEM. The installers for some of these drivers do hardware checks to prevent installation on another OEM's hardware. Do you honestly think that OEMs go through that level of effort to get specific drivers for their hardware and then do no testing of those drivers? Seriously?

You're taking this as opportunity to rant about Windows 8, but what you're really really complaining about is that the stock driver that comes with Windows 8 doesn't work with the specific peripheral on your computer. Who's fault is that? Is Microsoft responsible for making sure that the latest drivers for every known peripheral on the planet be part of the Windows 8 installer? Of course not. If you're going to do any complaining, complain to the peripheral maker for not submitting the latest drivers for their 2, 3, 5, 6 year old peripherals for WHQL testing.

I take responsibility for installing Windows 8 on 6-year old hardware, and that's why I look for hacked video drivers myself instead of b1tching to Microsoft about it. I know it's not Microsoft's responsibility and I know nVidia will NEVER update the drivers for video card older than a couple of years.

If you want the Apple OOBE, go buy yourself a MacBook Pro and be done with it. Or go buy one that was designed for Windows 8 from Dell, HP, ASUS, or Lenovo like Grandma will.

39 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

*snip*

I understand what cbae is saying but I disagree. Driver issues can happen for any OEM especially if they use common parts or if the driver is Microsoft provided or some related OS flaw. OEM crapware only further adds to screwy acting systems. Add these two together on a new PC and Grandma will have a better experience on a new iPad or MacBook.

{citation needed}

As a powerful counterpoint, I'll present my anectodal experience of setting up Windows 8 on my ultrabook (November 2011) and my desktop (frankenbuild with a Core2 Duo E6600) with exactly zero issues.

2 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

@cbae: Like I said it smells a lot like Vista... OEMs with all of their tested, certified drivers didn't produce Vista era PCs that were blue-screenless. I had both an brand new HP and Gateway PC -- both shipped with Vista -- during that timeframe that both required driver updates before they were stable under Vista. I remember thinking "How the h3ll could they ship PCs that were defective right OOB like this?". Being that it wasn't brand centric it was easy to blame Microsoft like so many did (right, wrong, or indifferent) as so many did back then.

You're installing Windows 8 on a machine that didn't ship with Windows 8 and based on your anecdotal experience assume that this is going to be another Vista situation with machines that are specifically designed for Windows 8. You see no problem with that?

And technically this tablet did ship with Windows 8.

35 minutes ago, cbae wrote

*snip*

You're installing Windows 8 on a machine that didn't ship with Windows 8

So what? The driver model and kernel is pretty much Vista's, just with some optimizations. (NT 6.2)

And it's still a general purpose OS, right? So it should work on ANY PC that can run Vista/7 well. Period. The great Sinofsky promised it:

Windows 8 is designed from the ground up to be an amazing upgrade (or clean install) for any PC that runs Windows 7
Steven S. September 14, 2011 5:00 AM

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/13/experiencing-windows-8-touch-on-windows-7-hardware.aspx

23 hours ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

Wow! Big improvements in W8 RTM! I upgraded my build tablet (uber clean, all partitions deleted, install from USB) to W8 Enterprise RTM about an hour ago I just experienced my first BSOD -- "INVALID_IO_BOOST_STATE" No W8 wasn't rushed out the door... Exciting days to come! Can't wait for WP8 based on the same kernel...

Installed W8 RTM on my build tablet three days ago and have yet to experience any blue screen at all (had plenty of them during the three different preview versions), so I think you were just a bit unlucky or W8 didn't identify and install the correct driver quite quickly enough during initial install.

Only issue I'm having with RTM on the build tablet is the screen doesn't auto rotate.
I could sit here * and blame Microsoft, "Wah Wah, Windows 8 sucks and is going to be a disaster because it doesn't support my exact specific piece of hardware out of the box with no intervention from me", or I could realise that this device was not a product that was aimed at Windows 8 end consumers, was shipped to us developers almost a full year before Windows 8 was finished and so may not be quite as smooth in usage as the devices that will be shipped to consumers in a few months with Windows 8....

...I choose the latter.

Sorry you and cbae both continue to miss my point. I tired of explaining it so I'm done here. Enjoy your glass half full.

32 minutes ago, wastingtime​withforums wrote

*snip*

So what? The driver model and kernel is pretty much Vista's, just with some optimizations. (NT 6.2)

Windows Vista/7 use WDDM 1.1 and Windows 8 uses WDDM 1.2, so you're already wrong there.

22 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

@OrigamiCar: My tablet rotates just fine. I'd blame Microsoft if I were you. They gave you a defective tablet! OMG!

Sorry you and cbae both continue to miss my point. I tired of explaining it so I'm done here. Enjoy your glass half full.

Your only point is the tell us all about how displeased you are with Windows 8. We've gotten this point about 50 threads ago.

45 minutes ago, DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

 I tired of explaining it so I'm done here.

Bye!

30 minutes ago, cbae wrote

*snip*

Windows Vista/7 use WDDM 1.1 and Windows 8 uses WDDM 1.2, so you're already wrong there.

Big deal, 0.1

"pretty much Vista's, just with some optimizations" fits the description.

From the horse's mouth: "How is the product compatibility determined?" - "Windows 8 Release Preview is designed with compatibility in mind. If an app or device ran on Windows 7, our goal is that it should run on Windows 8."
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/en-us/CompatCenter/FAQ

"so you're already wrong there."

Alright? So Sinofsky's own frigging words don't count anymore?

4 minutes ago, PaoloM wrote

Did anyone called the whaaaaambulance already?

I lost the number

26 minutes ago, wastingtime​withforums wrote

*snip*

Big deal, 0.1

"pretty much Vista's, just with some optimizations" fits the description.

From the horse's mouth: "How is the product compatibility determined?" - "Windows 8 Release Preview is designed with compatibility in mind. If an app or device ran on Windows 7, our goal is that it should run on Windows 8."
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/en-us/CompatCenter/FAQ

 

"so you're already wrong there."

Alright? So Sinofsky's own frigging words don't count anymore?

A kernel-mode driver isn't an app or device.

DBVS might be wrong about people's grandmas (who will only be getting OEM versions of Windows), but he is right that Microsoft shouldn't be shipping with drivers that KO the system.

Hopefully Microsoft will be able to diagnose which driver is at fault and patch this via WU soon.

I'm somewhat surprised that if this tablet is the one given out at Build that Microsoft haven't noticed this before - surely lots of MS employees have those tablets and will have noticed the same thing?

1 minute ago, evildictait​or wrote

*snip*

A kernel-mode driver isn't an app or device.

Windows 8 is designed from the ground up to be an amazing upgrade (or clean install) for any PC that runs Windows 7

Hey, I am only the messenger. Some execs should maybe just stop over-promising.

16 minutes ago, ZippyV wrote

*snip*

I lost the number

(Sorry, I had to really)

8 minutes ago, blowdart wrote

*snip*

 

 

(Sorry, I had to really)

 

...3

LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=xuxO6CZptck&NR=1

2 hours ago, evildictait​or wrote

*snip*

I'm somewhat surprised that if this tablet is the one given out at Build that Microsoft haven't noticed this before - surely lots of MS employees have those tablets and will have noticed the same thing?

Unless, of course, it's a very obscure bug that he's just been incredibly unlucky to hit. Or a conflict with something else installed on the system. Or, heaven forbid, the result of an actual hardware fault with his machine.

But far better to simply assume every Windows 8 machine will suffer identically and then whine about it on the internets.

11 minutes ago, AndyC wrote

*snip*

Unless, of course, it's a very obscure bug that he's just been incredibly unlucky to hit. Or a conflict with something else installed on the system. Or, heaven forbid, the result of an actual hardware fault with his machine.

But far better to simply assume every Windows 8 machine will suffer identically and then whine about it on the internets.

It is a very obscure bug (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=INVALID_IO_BOOST_STATE) that he's been very unlucky to hit.

That said, the particular bugcheck is not caused by a hardware fault - it is most likely caused by a thread trying to access a resource owned by another thread, and then the second thread dying before the lock is released. It could be caused by memory corruption or hardware failure, but I strongly doubt it. It's more likely a bad driver.

I take a dim view on bugs. Yes, DBVS can at times be unnecessarily sarcastic and can sometimes come across badly, but that doesn't stop the fact that in his experience of installing Windows8 out-of-the-box on Microsoft-provided hardware, this caused a bugcheck before he could really do anything.

Microsoft needs to fix that bug - not so much because it'll hit grannies (it won't) or because it's going to affect a ton of people (nobody else seems to have noticed it), but because it is a denial-of-service bug in a released product that is affecting a legitimate customer's ability to use it.

Over the next few weeks Microsoft will be peering very closely into the watson database to find and patch vulnerabilities on Win8, so here's me hoping that it gets fixed soon - even if it means retracting the driver and telling the driver vendor (who is probably not Microsoft) to build a fixed one.

So a bad driver was responsible for what appeared to be application crashes. Lovely.