* Boots under 10 seconds
* Conforms to DX11
* Scores at level X for benchmark Y
* No crapware allowed
* Is no louder than Z decibles, under stress 
* Supports controller spec
* Has at least one HDMI out

-Josh

58 minutes ago, JoshRoss wrote

Since Windows 8 has massive amounts of DRM built-in, why not just set a spec for xbox.next branded OEM provided hardware? Microsoft does this with phones and used to do it with tabets. In the end, what is different about xbox verses something like a Windows 8 RT device? Things that might go on the certification might look like this:

* Boots under 10 seconds
* Conforms to DX11
* Scores at level X for benchmark Y
* No crapware allowed
* Is no louder than Z decibles, under stress 
* Supports controller spec
* Has at least one HDMI out

-Josh

and a cable card slot !!!!!

then no need for windows media center on the pc.

for folks who do not know this most cable companies charge about 15 to 20 USD a month for an HD PVR set top box.

a cable card is only about 3-4 USD a month.

the XBOX with PVR functions and a cable card can replace the set top box and you save around 10-14 USD a month on your cable bill.

look at what that means after 2-3 years of savings !!

other than the card slot the only other thing MS needs to do is put the WMC channel guide features into the XBOX system.  not much work and it would make the new XBOX way better for folks who want to do that.

1 hour ago, JoshRoss wrote

Since Windows 8 has massive amounts of DRM built-in, why not just set a spec for xbox.next branded OEM provided hardware? Microsoft does this with phones and used to do it with tabets. In the end, what is different about xbox verses something like a Windows 8 RT device? Things that might go on the certification might look like this:

* Boots under 10 seconds
* Conforms to DX11
* Scores at level X for benchmark Y
* No crapware allowed
* Is no louder than Z decibles, under stress 
* Supports controller spec
* Has at least one HDMI out

-Josh

Especially when PS4s are subsidized by Sony

-Josh

12 minutes ago, Minh wrote

*snip*And OEMs want to do this FOR microsoft because.......?

Especially when PS4s are subsidized by Sony

 

And risk (same amount of risk as playing russian roulette with a full cylinder) OEMs creating crappy hardware. No, the Xbox should remain first-party. That way there is a guarantee that if you buy an Xbox vNext, then any game or application labelled for Xbox vNext will run with a known level of performance.

And they need to get that crazy guy from the Surface presentation to build it.

23 minutes ago, JoshRoss wrote

@Minh: It would allow for the cable companies to subsidize the hardware. Instead of renting you a standard set-up box, you could have an ATT U-verse xbox or a Verizon/Comcast/Whatever xbox. WIth each box customized to work on each network.  It makes a lot of sense, considering how much of the Xbox is used for media consumption.

-Josh

That said, the local phone company are providing internet and TV now, too. But they are consistently a step behind in terms of speed.

I know Xboxes from multiple OEMs would be a nightmare for devs. They have to test their games w/ all the different component configurations. Hello PCs.

......(XBox 720 has) a unified Windows 8 foundation to make it easier for application developers to build apps that target Xbox, PC, and Windows Phone.......

Want to help developers build amazing application for Widows 8, Windows Phone and XBOX? The Expression team.......

So apparently XBox will have a XAML stack for app development.

Consoles can do what they do even with outdated hardware precisely because they're optimized to do games. Add a general purpose OS and you have a very weak PC.

11 hours ago, JoshRoss wrote

Since Windows 8 has massive amounts of DRM built-in, why not just set a spec for xbox.next branded OEM provided hardware? Microsoft does this with phones and used to do it with tabets. In the end, what is different about xbox verses something like a Windows 8 RT device? Things that might go on the certification might look like this:

* Boots under 10 seconds
* Conforms to DX11
* Scores at level X for benchmark Y
* No crapware allowed
* Is no louder than Z decibles, under stress 
* Supports controller spec
* Has at least one HDMI out

One of the major reasons game companies like developing for consoles is that you know exactly what the hardware's going to be. It makes the game easier to optimize, and easier to test (only one possible config with maybe minor variations like hard drive size).

Not to mention that a year after release, you'll get new systems with significantly better specs than the original, and then you'll get games that won't run as well on the original systems.

Allowing OEMs to produce their own "XBox" systems would remove one of the major advantages of consoles unless they were all required to have the exact same spec. Otherwise, you just turn them into slightly more standardized PCs with all the same problems.

My understanding is that the leaked Xbox.Next info shows that it can do that. Maybe it has dedicated hardware for that so that it doesn't slow down any gaming activity.

I also feel the Xbox should stay 1st party. Allowing OEMs to create Xboxes will just result in the overall Xbox quality decreasing.

22 hours ago, figuerres wrote

*snip*

and a cable card slot !!!!!

then no need for windows media center on the pc.

for folks who do not know this most cable companies charge about 15 to 20 USD a month for an HD PVR set top box.

a cable card is only about 3-4 USD a month.

the XBOX with PVR functions and a cable card can replace the set top box and you save around 10-14 USD a month on your cable bill.

look at what that means after 2-3 years of savings !!

other than the card slot the only other thing MS needs to do is put the WMC channel guide features into the XBOX system.  not much work and it would make the new XBOX way better for folks who want to do that.

just to clarify my post a bit ...

i saw the list of specs and did not read the whole post (MY Bad)

all i was wanting is a good new spec for the new xbox that includes the cable card.

forget the OEM stuff.

lets just have a new xbox with updated hardware specs and OS. no need for all the windows 8 / OEM / VHD stuff....

and i do not want cable companies having different xboxes that they rent to users! 

i want my own box that i can do what i want to and take it with me when i move etc...

3 hours ago, BitFlipper wrote

Of course if you turn a game console into a PVR, it needs to be able to record two (at least) shows at the same time while it is playing a demanding game. If not then it is worthless as a PVR.

My understanding is that the leaked Xbox.Next info shows that it can do that. Maybe it has dedicated hardware for that so that it doesn't slow down any gaming activity.

I also feel the Xbox should stay 1st party. Allowing OEMs to create Xboxes will just result in the overall Xbox quality decreasing.

i have a ceton card http://cetoncorp.com/

it is a PCI Express 1x card, it uses a standard Cable Card to handle up to 4 channels at a time of cable.  it can share the tuner with other pc's in the home or via the xbox MCE extender you can let the pc run desktop apps or use the local MC while the xbox watches a different channel at the same time.

my system is an i7 3.6 Ghz   but when  i run MC or the XBMC i see almost zero load on the CPU/GPU  Games put more load than the Ceton / Cable Card does.

by the way almost all of the settop boxes that you get have a cable card in the back of them.

so the hardware in the average cable box can handle 2 streams and that hardware is not high end.

( I do not know if they let you record more than 2 streams in the boxes the cable company gives)

and i can get all of the HD channels the local cable providers offer and it is exactly the same quality.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=ba07ebc89e6100ef#cid=BA07EBC89E6100EF&id=BA07EBC89E6100EF%21720

NOTE:  I tried to link to the picture and i tried to embed the picture and nither one worked.

MICROSOFT, i am using two microsoft tools and they are not working together to do what i want!  why is this so freaking hard?

20 minutes ago, AndyC wrote

@BitFlipper: I think we're on the cusp of moving away from the "you have to record X shows at once" and, indeed, away from the idea you have to record shows at all. There really isn't any reason that a 'recorded' show can't just be pulled down on demand from some server without the messy business of decoding and saving the stream on-the-fly.

well there is the way that the cable companies and content owners pick and chose what shows to offer on-demand and for how long. as long as they do that then the end user need to be able to record the show so that they can view it when they want and not have it pulled off the cloud by the cable and content folks.

11 hours ago, figuerres wrote

*snip*

well there is the way that the cable companies and content owners pick and chose what shows to offer on-demand and for how long. as long as they do that then the end user need to be able to record the show so that they can view it when they want and not have it pulled off the cloud by the cable and content folks.

True, as of today. But I suspect you'll see more and more content moving into the realms of on-demand and customers can have the ability to "record" that without having to worry about two or more things possibly overlapping. You can already do this to some extent in the UK with Sky's Anytime+ service. The obvious next step is to simply replace the "record" button in the cable/satelitte box with a background download from the t'interwebs.

I'd love it if the next Xbox came with a TV tuner built-in. Cablecard would be an extra bonus. But I don't think that will happen. Everyone seems poised to move to IPTV. Comcast has a deal on the Xbox to stream channels. It's much easier to implement IPTV than it is to send out channels to subscribers' homes and support decrypting boxes with slow, confusing menu systems.