I'm looking for problems with J2EE

I'm looking for a document that shows the disadvantages and problems associated with the use of J2EE.  Anybody have a good site I should visit?  I'm not looking for some lame page by somebody saying "Java Sucks!"

Also, what tough questions would I ask a vendor selling a J2EE product.  My boss is looking at a solution that's not .NET.... (I need to watch my language).  Of course it won't affect my job, except that I'd have to learn a new platform.

Thanks in advance!

Rob

PS I suppose this should have been posted in another area, but I can't move it myself...

The java guys love this one:

http://www.gotdotnet.com/team/compare/petshop.aspx

Also, they try to claim "Write Once, Run Anywhere" crap. Google around for interop between WebSphere and ummm JBoss. You will see it isn't the case, it's "Write Once, Debug Everywhere". JBoss is a free EJB Server, but you will find vendor lock-in impossible to avoid. The J2EE specs have left gaps that vendors fill in. Writing EJB's for IBM's app server won't just run on Oracles.

I was very impressed with Oracles setup, they have a O/R Mapper (toplink or something) built into the IDE, and it sends your content to the app server. I wasn't impressed with the price. 10k USD just for 2 users (this was ONLY the IDE mind you). Then there was the app server and their database server. Yikes!

IBM's WebSphere is very expensive as well. Talk to salesman from Oracle, IBM, and Microsoft.

IMO Visual Studio is the best IDE out there. It's not slow and intelli-sense is lightning fast. I am very productive in it. Those are other things to consider as well.

Ah yes, but you've also got Vendor Lock-In with .NET as well, you've also got Platform Lock-In.

Okayokay, there's also the MONO Project, but for a lot of programs it isn't stable enough yet (and System.Windows.Forms still needs to be implementated fully). But right now, the DotNet Framework and JIT Compilers are only available for the Windows platform.

Java Runtimes are available for virtually every single platform under the sun, even the Mars robots run Java.

Bite the bullet and learn Java, it'll look good on your resumé

Here is an blog entry on Java and .NET security...

One security comparison (mentioned in the entry) can be found here...Comparing Java and .NET Security: Lessons Learned and Missed.

I have used both J2EE and ASP.NET and I have to say:

Please pick ASP.NET, it's a lot easier to develop with. J2EE is a nice technology, but when you start using Struts and stuff like that you quite frequently run into problems.

I installed struts on a server and it simply stopped working. Tomcat wouldnt start anymore because of some silly config error in the website that used struts. All J2EE servers have this problem (At least the ones I tried).

Struts is ok once you got it to work, but one error in your configuration and the whole server goes down. That never happens with ASP.NET.

Besides the problems with Struts, J2EE is simply the J2SE framework extended with a transaction framework and some other features. There's no specific set of classes specially for web development. Most of those are included with the application server you choose. And if you really want to be doing something fancy you always need to download the struts and tags package from apache.

ASP.NET is a lot more efficient when it comes to the development time needed to get the website up and running. You need to write less code to get the same effect as you would with JSP pages (Also part of J2EE). The main reason for this (I think) is that there are no really good editors for creating JSP pages visually. There are tons of webeditors on the net, but they all lack the capabilities you need when using custom tags.

All in all J2EE and ASP.NET are still close to eachother when it comes to the possibilities but my personal favorite is ASP.NET

Rather than look for problems with J2EE, maybe you should embrace the opportunity to learn it or (b) find out why J2EE is the current favorite and demonstrate why .NET might be better.

Nlinus...here my experience:

3 years ago I was called from a new born Online photo print service here in Italy. They had a java solution wich took one year of development (by another company) but they were totally unhappy with it, expecially for the client application (compose and upload photo order) but also for the web interface (no web services). They were in late with plans  so I had to do all from scratch in 3 months (web site, administrative site, web services, windows client, and internal production app). I did it with .net/c# in the time requested and, still now,  the project has an high degree of expandibility and is very easy to manage (said from developers working in the company).

I don't want to say that the original project was bad because the use of j2ee (I used j2ee before .net and still now for some project where I don't have choice). What my expercience says is that, with .net, I wrote in 3 months what 3 developers wrote in 1 year with j2ee.

I think that the real advantage is the ide (vs) and the framework containing everythink a developer needs (I didn't use external components except for an activex and a java applet that users of the web can optionally use to upload photos).

Well...these are the facts.

Greetings from Italy (the sun is warm and the sea is inviting...can't stay here anymore )

Thanks everyone for your replies.  I don't have a problem learing J2EE.  But I've always been very impressed with .NET.  I'd always prefer to use a .NET solution.  I just wanted to see a list of things I should be concerned about when having discussions with a vendor regarding a J2EE product.  I think that the information provided above will be great.  Thank you very much!

er yeh - its a problem itself... period

Guys -- don't try to convince him Java's ok. He doesn't care. He's already decided he wants .Net and is looking for facts to fit his conclusion.

Cairo wrote:

Guys -- don't try to convince him Java's ok. He doesn't care. He's already decided he wants .Net and is looking for facts to fit his conclusion.

Yep, reminds me of "Creation Scientists" in the states that selectivly choose evidence that suites their agenda, as well as twising the evidence to fit their conclusions.

Rather than "Real Science" that bases conclusions on the evidence.

Even if the evidence had shown that J2EE/Java was better than .NET in nLinus' case, he'd have still gone with .NET.

I don't have a problem with J2EE.  I might go with it after all.  I'd just prefer to use what I know.  But if I'm gonna have to talk to vendors about the products they're selling, I want to have them answer the tough questions.  I know very little about Java and I don't want to go into negotiations blind.  The worst security issues are those you know nothing about.  I'm pretty familiar with .NET and tech problems.  I wanted the bad news about the other side too.

W3bbo wrote:

Yep, reminds me of "Creation Scientists" in the states that selectivly choose evidence that suites their agenda, as well as twising the evidence to fit their conclusions.

Rather than "Real Science" that bases conclusions on the evidence.

No comment.

"Look, mom!  I'm playing nice with the other kids."

Larsenal wrote:

W3bbo wrote:Yep, reminds me of "Creation Scientists" in the states that selectivly choose evidence that suites their agenda, as well as twising the evidence to fit their conclusions. Rather than "Real Science" that bases conclusions on the evidence.

No comment.

"Look, mom!  I'm playing nice with the other kids."

I have nothing against creationists who believe that God created scientific evidence contradictory to "what really happened".

Just people who twist evidence to fit their own agenda. If "Creationist Science" was really science it would be in NewScientist Magazine or the Journal, Science; but it isn't.

Lets speak nothing more of it.

W3bbo wrote:

I have nothing against creationists who believe that God created scientific evidence contradictory to "what really happened".

And I have no problem with anyone who believes that mainstream science has no agenda.  I believe that they do.

Although there is much more we could both say (and have said in the past), thanks for agreeing not to speak of it.

(Can you resist the urge to get the last word in?)

How the hell do you get Creation vs Evolution from a Java vs .Net discussion... are you that (I need to watch my language)ing stupid? Or do you just lack a better example?

if ( C9.GetUserByID(14350).IsFlaming ) {
    C9.MainstreamNinerCollection.IgnoreUserByID(14350);
}
else if ( C9.GetUserByID(14350).IsGenuine )
{
    Response.Write("It's easy.  Plenty of us think laterally.");
}

Console:

It's easy. Plenty of us think laterally.

if (C9.GetUserByID(14350).IsPissedByIrrelevantComment)
    Response.WriteLine("Yes... but I am having a bad day");