Channel 9 Forums - Tech Off - Andrei, Herb and Scott: Got C++11 Questions? http://mschnlnine.vo.llnwd.net/d1/Dev/App_Themes/C9/images/feedimage.png Channel 9 Forums - Tech Off - Andrei, Herb and Scott: Got C++11 Questions? http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums Channel 9 keeps you up to date with the latest news and behind the scenes info from Microsoft that developers love to keep up with. From LINQ to SilverLight – Watch videos and hear about all the cool technologies coming and the people behind them. http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums en Sat, 25 May 2013 09:01:54 GMT Sat, 25 May 2013 09:01:54 GMT Rev9 10 -10 -1 Tech Off - Andrei, Herb and Scott: Got C++11 Questions? Folks,

I'm attending C++ and Beyond next week (Aug 5-8, 2012) and will be bringing my camera gear. I'd like to invite you to ask questions (C++11, specifically) for Andrei Alexandrescu, Herb Sutter and Scott Meyer to answer. Like last year, I will be interviewing the Big Three and want to include you! Please ask questions here and I will do my best to get them answered.

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/4d04502c166a4267b612a0a101226752#4d04502c166a4267b612a0a101226752 Thu, 02 Aug 2012 17:37:19 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/4d04502c166a4267b612a0a101226752#4d04502c166a4267b612a0a101226752 Charles 10 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Charles/Discussions/RSS Tech Off - Andrei, Herb and Scott: Got C++11 Questions? If we leave the syntax alone for the next couple of years, how long before we can get an official library Technical Report out there with types covering XML, hierarchical file systems and HTTP / web-services?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/b878299df3104ee38a11a0a101244735#b878299df3104ee38a11a0a101244735 Thu, 02 Aug 2012 17:44:09 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/b878299df3104ee38a11a0a101244735#b878299df3104ee38a11a0a101244735 Tom Kirby-Green 10 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/tomkirbygreen/Discussions/RSS Tech Off - Andrei, Herb and Scott: Got C++11 Questions? I'm really looking forward to the videos. How about a windows specific question? Is there any chance that we could see some guidance on how to use the new language features and the standard library to interop with Win32. The MSDN samples look like a completely different language compared to C++11.

 

 

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/9d17a97140a84c7c8edfa0a1013b9cfa#9d17a97140a84c7c8edfa0a1013b9cfa Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:09:06 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/9d17a97140a84c7c8edfa0a1013b9cfa#9d17a97140a84c7c8edfa0a1013b9cfa B3NT 10 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/B3NT/Discussions/RSS Tech Off - Andrei, Herb and Scott: Got C++11 Questions? I think Herb asked developers awhile ago about suggestions on which high-level features should be supported in a standard library. What has the response been? Any unexpected requests?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/65e38041ba2040868151a0a1015c82d7#65e38041ba2040868151a0a1015c82d7 Thu, 02 Aug 2012 21:08:53 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/65e38041ba2040868151a0a1015c82d7#65e38041ba2040868151a0a1015c82d7 ZippyV 10 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/ZippyV/Discussions/RSS Tech Off - Andrei, Herb and Scott: Got C++11 Questions? Great! Keep them coming Smiley

Thanks,
C

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/ce9aa814d7814aa5be86a0a10163fd64#ce9aa814d7814aa5be86a0a10163fd64 Thu, 02 Aug 2012 21:36:07 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/ce9aa814d7814aa5be86a0a10163fd64#ce9aa814d7814aa5be86a0a10163fd64 Charles 10 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Charles/Discussions/RSS Tech Off - Andrei, Herb and Scott: Got C++11 Questions? Build Model. 

Are there any ideas or even plans  to improve? 

I see it as the biggest issue in C++ for large projects. 

The separation of header and body is purely to "make the tool chain happy". A typical header contains both interface and implementation details  -  to avoid that I have to write more code.  The separaton is awkward from a software design POV. Header-only code lacks certain features (static variables), and is suitable only for stable libraries, as incremental build times usually suffer massively. 

#include's go stale after ever so many refactorings, unused #includes are hard to identify, creating a spaghetti bowl of fake dependencies that are hard to understand and harm incremental build times - which in turn harms the entiredevelopment process. Slow turnaround means slow tests means tests are run less often. Large projects often suffer from bugs / shortcomings of the dependency check, triggering full builds "just to be sure".  

Moooar hardware, forward declarations, precompiled headers and PIMPL can mitigate the problems only up to a point.  The latter makes me particulary uneasy: solving a tool chain problem by changing the way I write code.

 

Anyway, looking forward to the talk!

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/62ac47fb4826461ab00da0a2009615e5#62ac47fb4826461ab00da0a2009615e5 Fri, 03 Aug 2012 09:06:26 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/62ac47fb4826461ab00da0a2009615e5#62ac47fb4826461ab00da0a2009615e5 peterchen 10 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/peterchen/Discussions/RSS Tech Off - Andrei, Herb and Scott: Got C++11 Questions? I've got a question regarding a (future, potential) metaprogramming facility -- namely, a possibility of standardizing static loops. It might go hand in hand with adding static conditional expressions (like the proposed static_if) to the future versions of the standard.

The practical (example) context is Section 15 Metaprogramming of the Agner's optimization manual, "Optimizing software in C++: An optimization guide for Windows, Linux and Mac platforms", see http://www.agner.org/optimize/optimizing_cpp.pdf & http://www.agner.org/optimize/#manuals.

In particular, it discusses examples that "explain how metaprogramming can be used to speed up the calculation of the power function when the exponent is an integer known at compile time."

"In C++ template metaprogramming, loops are implemented as recursive templates.

[...]

Why is template metaprogramming so complicated? Because the C++ template feature was
never designed for this purpose. It just happened to be possible.

[...]

The D language allows compile-time if statements (called static if), but no compile-
time loops. We can only hope that such a feature becomes available in the future. If a future
version of C++ should allow compile-time if and compile-time while loops, then the
transformation of example 15.1b to metaprogramming would be straightforward. The MASM
assembly language has full metaprogramming features, including the ability to define
function names and variable names from string functions. A metaprogramming
implementation analogous to example 15.1b and d in assembly language is provided as an
example in the "Macro loops" chapter in manual 2: "Optimizing subroutines in assembly
language"."

Right now we can (awkwardly) implement conditionals using template specialization and loops using recursive template instantiation.
I understand the proposed static_if facility is intended to avoid the awkwardness in the case of the compile-time if statements.
Would it be possible for the next revision of the standard to get an analogous (as described above) compile-time loops extension?

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/6947394a1f5845f18c7aa0a2015f6972#6947394a1f5845f18c7aa0a2015f6972 Fri, 03 Aug 2012 21:19:27 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/6947394a1f5845f18c7aa0a2015f6972#6947394a1f5845f18c7aa0a2015f6972 Matt 10 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Matt_PD/Discussions/RSS Tech Off - Andrei, Herb and Scott: Got C++11 Questions? OK. Now crank out MP4s and WMVs and upload them please ! Devil

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/fb8e0f9f674640ba836ba0b0007c78f5#fb8e0f9f674640ba836ba0b0007c78f5 Fri, 17 Aug 2012 07:33:11 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/fb8e0f9f674640ba836ba0b0007c78f5#fb8e0f9f674640ba836ba0b0007c78f5 felix9 10 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/felix9/Discussions/RSS Tech Off - Andrei, Herb and Scott: Got C++11 Questions? @felix9: Interview will go live next week. Thanks to all for the questions. We didn't get to all of them, but did get into some very good stuff! Smiley

C

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/805d19b77fc54421afdfa0b1011f84de#805d19b77fc54421afdfa0b1011f84de Sat, 18 Aug 2012 17:26:49 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/805d19b77fc54421afdfa0b1011f84de#805d19b77fc54421afdfa0b1011f84de Charles 10 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Charles/Discussions/RSS Tech Off - Andrei, Herb and Scott: Got C++11 Questions? Here it is: http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/Alexandrescu-Meyers-Sutter-On-Static-If-C11-in-2012-Modern-Libraries-and-Metaprogramming

Thanks for the great questions! (Sorry we didn't get to them all - we ran out of time!)

C

]]> http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/79f03efcae9643368925a0b400eb6af6#79f03efcae9643368925a0b400eb6af6 Tue, 21 Aug 2012 14:17:07 GMT http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/TechOff/Andrei-Herb-and-Scott-Got-C11-Questions/79f03efcae9643368925a0b400eb6af6#79f03efcae9643368925a0b400eb6af6 Charles 10 http://channel9.msdn.com/Niners/Charles/Discussions/RSS