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  • Bill Gates’ energy views are a turn-off

    @Proton2: -1

  • Track file Read operations ​programmati​cally?

    @androidi: Thanks for the info. I was thinking that enabling last access was an option but AFAICT, it does affect overall system performance.

    I did find EasyHook. I'm still looking into it to see if it can do what I need. From what I can tell, it should. It does have an example app that does file monitoring using hooking, so it could be close to what I need. Have you heard of EasyHook before?

  • Satya ' self down...

    , spivonious wrote

    WASAPI is definitely not the problem. It's competitive with ASIO on the right software. Maybe the way they're doing the mapping between native API and WinRT API is the problem.

    WASAPI is most definitely the problem. Why do you think to date no-one has been able to create low-latency audio apps using it?

    Can you point to a single app that manages to have low-latency audio in the Windows Store? Just one?

    EDIT: You should read what the OP says in this thread. He tries all variations of WASAPI modes but can't get below 65 ms. That is just one way. That doesn't even mention the latency when capturing audio. iOS apparently does 16 ms round trip.

    It is possible that WASAPI in WinRT acts different than it does for desktop apps, not sure. The only thing I know is that no-one so far has been able to get acceptable latency using WinRT.

    EDIT EDIT: One theory I have is that WinRT apps are not supposed to consume a lot of CPU (God forbid you actually want to use your expensive new tablet with its i5 processor to its potential). So anything WinRT related is toned down in the CPU usage area (and of course these geniuses confuse low-latency with high CPU usage), so the underlying WASAPI buffers are overly large.

  • Satya ' self down...

    @jamie: Yes, thanks to MS this is all very confusing...

    I think the correct terminology is that "Windows RT" is the ARM version that cannot run real applications. On the other hand, "WinRT" is the API that replaces Win32, and applies to both ARM and x86/x64 Windows Store (aka Metro) apps.

    It is the WinRT API that is causing the limitation, so it really doesn't matter how powerful your hardware is, you will never get low-latency anything with an app you got from the Windows Store.

    Bottom line: If you want to run quality audio applications, stick to desktop or get an iPad.

  • Satya ' self down...

    @jamie: You say  you downloaded a metro drum app, which means it uses WinRT, even on Windows 8.1. Which means it has the limitation that there is no way to do low-latency audio.

  • Satya ' self down...

    @bondsbw: The laggy audio is purely a WinRT software issue. On the same hardware you can run super-low latency DAW desktop software with no problems.

    If you want to see how someone is trying to port an iOS music app to WinRT, see this thread. I explain what I believe to be the main issue in that thread.

    Briefly, MS made only a subset of Win32 APIs available in WinRT. You can P/Invoke into those with no problem, your app will still pass certification. However, P/Invoke into anything else, and your app will fail certification. Now the problem is that MS doesn't think low-latency audio is important, and instead gave us access to "WASAPI" with which you cannot achieve low latency audio.

    It is sad, and shows how out of touch with reality those at MS are that make the decisions. The reality is that you cannot be successful going after the mobile consumer market if you don't even understand the basics.

  • Satya speaking...

    @cbae: People like you will just never get it. Or once you pass the denial stage and realize what has happened, it will be too late. I think MS is run by people like you, which is why they are slowly but surely becoming less and less relevant each day.

    MS had it, but due to bone-headed decisions and the unwillingness to fix their mistakes in time, they will lose it. Don't think their current desktop market share will continue to save them.

    I'm a big MS fan, I have all MS products (zero Apple/Google products), but I'm slowly getting to the conclusion that life is too short to wait around for MS to pull its head out. I was always resisting moving my dev environment to Apple since I hate both Apple and Objective-C. However I plan to take a new look at Swift to see if this is interesting to me, and if so I'll just need to start liking Apple and do the switch. My point is that if a big MS fanboy like me is thinking of jumping ship, I can only imagine how the decision must be much easier for other MS devs that don't hate the alternatives as much as I do.

    But hey, Metro FTW!!! :D

  • Satya speaking...

    , cbae wrote


    Don't speak for me when you say the desktop is "crippled". Just say it's different, and you don't like different.

    I never used the word "crippled", but anyway the fact that it has been gutted is a problem, yes. If MS left the Start menu as is but gave you the kiddie Start Screen and allowed you to do everything there if that is what you like, then fine. However that is not what they did. They gutted the desktop so people would be forced to use Metro whether they like it or not.

    Such as?

    From the Windows 8 desktop, click on the network icon in the tray. WTF? Now click on "View Network Settings". WTF again! Is this a joke? This is just one simple example. It is all over the place.

    So please stop acting like the desktop has not been changed. It is a sad empty shell of its former self.

    So they don't see Windows 8 as compelling an upgrade on existing machines, and they would have thought the same if Windows 8 looked EXACTLY like Windows 7.

    I work for a pretty big software company and the general viewpoint is that W8 is a joke for serious business use. People even use it to describe it when a big mistake was made, as in "someone had a Windows 8 moment".

    But keep being in denial. At least there are signs that MS realized they made a big mistake.

    And if they still are purchasing new machines that don't support touch, they don't want to bother installing the new OS and having to deal with training users on even the minor UI changes of the desktop.

    LOL, no.

    But rationalizing it as complete rejection of the UI due to the removal of the stupid Start Menu makes so much more sense.

    It doesn't make sense to you because you make two mistakes: You don't care for the Start menu and can't imagine how on earth other people don't feel exactly the way you do. And that you think the changes were only to the Start menu. No wonder it doesn't make sense to you.

  • Satya speaking...

    , cbae wrote


    So Windows 8 desktop is "crippled" to you because it doesn't have the useless Start Menu?

    Ugh, we've had endless discussions about the Windows 8 desktop already. The CliffsNotes are:

    1. It is fine if you think the Start menu is useless, however you don't speak for anyone else.
    2. It is much more than just the Start menu that got gutted.
    3. Enterprise has rejected the Windows 8 desktop. It doesn't matter how many times anyone says it didn't really change, or it is better, or just give it some time, or get over it, because the proof is in the pudding and it got rejected bigtime. Period.
  • Satya speaking...

    , wastingtime​withforums wrote


    Huh, you misunderstood me. The cursive slogans are what they should have done - (offering the uncrippled desktop in W8 etc.). .. Instead they were busy to trash their own crown jewels.

    Ah got it!! I agree 100% with you.