1 hour ago, magicalclick wrote

?? I think Integer is fine? It is essentially

public class Interger

{

 int _value;

 override operator = .....

}

But, still, Integer is not int. It cost extra pointer in memory. Unless I am wrong? Which no one has yet to explain how Integer is structured.

IMO, Integer[ one billion ] = ( 64bits pointer + 32bits value ) * one billion. Which is absolutly big no no in my previous examples.

And just for me only, I totally don't like to use objects when I can use primitives. Some people can debate this to death, but, I want to use int, that's all that matters.

 

Java doesn't do operator overloading, so:

public static void doStuff(Integer i) {
  i = 5;
}

is equivalent to:

public static void doStuff(Integer i) {
  i = new Integer(5);
}

You're only changing doStuff's reference to i, not changing its actual value (the caller won't see the change).  You actually can't do the latter; Integer is immutable in Java.

[edit] And now I remember why I stopped posting.  Why in the world does this piece of crap forum dump you back to the first page of a thread when you post?

10 hours ago, androidi wrote

I watched the PDC Ander's presentation again partially and there's couple answers to questions made using the Q&A feature that make similar point as was made above.

1. Because await can be "buried" so it's not clear what will happen in the method.

(2. Because of restrictions similar to iterators (no unsafe/ref/out) - easier to notice this restriction)

However as I suggested in the op, since most code using VS, alternatively to adding a method modifier based cue, the IDE could highlight in some manner that there are surprising things going to happen in the method. I looked at the further arguments for "async" posted in this thread and most if not all of those issues are about highlighting one fact or another / preventing confusion so they don't really present a strong argument against using IDE instead of a modifier for that purpose.

So to reiterate, the issue I have is about having to do more work that a modern IDE like 2010 has capability to do for you. With operators like await/yield and with other similar things, a case is made for having visual cue besides the command that there's something "funky" going on so really this is just a language designer answer to an IDE problem. (atleast for now, I'll read Eric's post when it's out)

And what if someone's using a different IDE, or not using an IDE at all?  Tying basic language readability to the IDE is a bad idea.

Decimal:  Put in your 2 bits

Base 3: Put in your 2 bits

Hexadecimal: Put in your 2 bits

Base 3452873598729: Put in your 2 bits

[edit] Also, posting throws me back to the first page of the thread.  Not good.

[edit2] And your classic login link is gone from the Sign In page.

vesuvius said:

GoddersUK said:

*snip*

The buttons are normally the blue you have in the image above, I have dragged the channel 9.msdn/forums page to the Win 7 taskbar as a shortcut. Upon launching this, the buttons are yellow. I also know that they are green also at times, but I am yet to determine the conditions that trigger a, b or c or is that b, g or y (blue, green or yellow gold)

 

The tabs themselves also change colour pretty dramatically sometimes, and again, i'm not sure why?

Button color, for an instance launched from a pinned site or desktop shortcut, takes the predominant color from the site's icon (so, if you pin C9 to the taskbar, you get yellow buttons).  It uses an algorithm similar to the one that decides the color of the taskbar button highlight.

Tab color is arbitrary; all tabs in the same group will be the same color.  This behavior's inherited from IE8.

Charles said:

BitFlipper said:

*snip*

You can effectively do this in IE9 by setting the compatibility mode per site or domain (Tools -> View Compatibility ->Etc...). Then, you have 3 browsers in one! Joy!!!

C

Ah, good, I can post now (according to the dev tools, you're forcing IE7 compatibility mode).  So much for "IE runs the same markup as the others," though.

RSS has been demoted to the command bar...  there's no way to move it to someplace useful, and there's no way to just toggle the command bar temporarily like you can the menu bar (you have to turn it on, then turn it back off afterwards).  Pretty inconvenient if you use IE's RSS features a lot.

jamie said:

intelman said:

*snip*

**bulletin ***   the back button is clip art from 1992 and is cut off ****

 

 

gzzzt

I actually kinda like the back button appearance...  it's unique.

My thoughts:

Likes:

* I love IE's approach to site-specific browsers (pinning to start menu or creating desktop shortcuts).  Recoloring the navigation buttons is a nice visual cue to tell which window belongs to which site (and it's very Win7-ish).  C9 needs a large pixel icon for the taskbar

* Performance and seems very good, from the little bit that I've used it.  Seems that IE has managed to get out of the performance rut they were in.  Big + for IE9:  No more "loading" when I create a new (blank) tab.

* On the performance note, I love how IE detects which add-ins are causing IE to be slow to start up; slow startup is one of the big reasons I've avoided IE in the past.  Unfortunately for Microsoft, most of the slow add-ons I disabled were Microsoft add-ons.  Get your act together, people!

* I like the minimal UI--  Pretty much everything I'll ever need is available under the one Tools menu.  This is very Chrome-ish.

Dislikes:

* Font rendering is really crappy (worse than WPF for some cases).  Most fonts look okay (Segoe UI looks perfectly normal), but some fonts look atrocious.  Unfortunately for Microsoft, common Arial 12pt (probably the most common font combo on the web) looks horrible.

* Single row address bar and tabs.  To give enough room for a usable number of tabs, I have to shrink the address bar so much that there's not much readable content in the address.  Plus, there's a potential security issue here:  since, on every website I've visited so far, the end of the domain name is not visible, there's no way (except to click the field, and arrow through or drag to scroll) to tell the difference between, say, http://arstechnica.com/ and http://arstechnica.imgonnastealurpersonalinfo.com/ .  All I see is "http://arstechnic..." in the address field (this is at slightly wider than the default width).

* Combined search and address bar.  Why do privacy and search suggestions have to be mutually exclusive?  This is stupid.

* Compatibility.  I'll give them a pass on this for now (it's the first day, and lots of sites detect browsers improperly).  But when the browser doesn't work in Microsoft's own developer forums (i.e. here), it doesn't bode well.  It especially doesn't bode well that it fails inconsistently.

(Posted from Chrome)

spivonious said:

fabian said:

*snip*

All Win7 skus (except Home Basic) have Media Center. You're thinking of Vista.

All Windows 7 SKUs have Media Center.  It's not installed by default on the business SKUs (Business and Enterprise); it has to be added after installation as described.

CreamFilling512 said:

exoteric said:

*snip*

Also maybe it flopped because Google built it themselves from scratch, its a departure from their other products which are usually acquisitions or based on an existing codebase.

 

Picasa was great before Google bought it.  Talk is built around libjingle, Google Earth is rebranded acquisition, Chrome is built around webkit, Android is built on Linux, Google Docs is a rebranded acquisition, etc.

On the contrary; Gmail's probably Google's most successful non-search product, and they built it all themselves.

And obviously, their core businesses (search and advertising) were all developed by Google.

blowdart said:

CannotResolveSymbol said:

*snip*

That doesn't magically remove the need to index well and watch for deadlocks though

 

Yes, but that's the same skillset as writing a scalable traditional web application.

ManipUni said:

Does anyone really think that they're qualified to write good cloud applications? I can barely write a half decent multi-threaded application. I mean if it is read only then sure, but with caching I doubt the load is very high anyway. Can you imagine the IO issue you'd be presented with when half a dozen apps are writing to the same database?

The whole point of Azure is that it abstracts all that away from you.  You just write a plain old webapp; the Azure infrastructure takes care of all the hard parts:  data distribution/synchronization, automatic allocation of nodes, etc.

(Just kidding )

AndyC said:

Seems that hardware acceleration still isn't available. It's incredibly slow compared to the IE9PP.

But it actually has a UI.

Not the best deal ever, but their only competition around here is Comcast...  and I don't want to have anything to do with them.

[edit] In TN, USA here.

(The "Classic Account users sign in here" link on the LiveID sign in page leads to the current site, not the new one)

BTW, the day you switch to Live ID-only for sign-in will be the day I stop visiting.  Live ID (and switching between IDs) isn't worth it.

Charles said:

JoshRoss said:

*snip*

Charles wrote:

This is something we really want to provide (and have for quite some time), but we haven't had the ability to just get it done. We will address this. You have my word.

 

Wow. I made that remark over 4 years ago... So much for my word, eh? Lame.

 

I'm having a hard time accepting how fast time is flying by... 4 years? This is still something that people request and it's still something we talk about doing. Dan and Jeff will have to make the call. It costs time and money and we certainly can't do it for all of our content. The question then becomes which pieces of content do we subtitle and why?

C

No, the real question is, which MSR team do you hit up for the latest in voice/language recognition tech so you can make captioning completely automatic. 

CreamFilling512 said:

phreaks said:

*snip*

Is there really no way to disable just data?  What if I'm roaming overseas?

The Motorola Droid (running 2.1) I was playing with earlier today could disable data roaming.  No idea if you could disable data altogether, though.

This is the first I've heard of it.

kasajian said:

Sven Groot said:

*snip*

I don't think that's what he said.  Only talking about object construction.  In allocating dynamic memory in C# is faster than allocating in C.  The reason is because C# has garbage collection and thus can have a much simpler allocator.   In some cases, the allocation is simply a pointer-increment, which is similar to the speed of alloating an object on the stack.   In C and C++, some kind of a heap is used, so it's more expensive.   But this comparison rather naive.  C# than incurs a cost when the garbage collector runs, which C and C++ would not have.   However, the speed improevement of dynamic memory allocation with GC helps offset the cost of having a GC in the first place.

 

In most real-world cases, this stuff doesn't matter.  A few places it does.  For instance, the fact that the time that the GC can take to collect is non-deterministic, it could be a problem in some cases when developing for real time systems.   But I wouldn't say categorically that GC can't be used (plenty of real time systems that use GC).  It all depends on what you're trying to do.

Why are you arguing over a two-year-old thread?

W3bbo said:

mstefan said:

*snip*

Aye.

 

However, of course, software like this lowers the entry barrier for being a "web designer" so we'll continue to be told that "my 12 yearold nephew can make websites too you know" when we hand in our 4-figure invoices to clients.

If, as a web designer, you can't provide a tangible benefit over an automated tool or a technically-savvy twelve-year-old, perhaps you shouldn't be handing over 4-figure invoices to clients.

spivonious said:

W3bbo said:

*snip*

I agree. I would have never guessed that's what it meant. Even just a little asterisk or something would go a long way.

Or at least a tooltip if you mouse over the ghosted slider thumb.

Charles said:

exoteric said:

*snip*

Glad you picked up on the Channel 9 connection

 

Indeed, this PDC will be a physical and virtual manifestation of the core Channel 9 philosophy: Welcome to the sausage factory, developers. You will get to meet folks you've never met before and interact with fellow developers who write Microsoft's platforms, tools and services in their native habitat, not some giant conference hall.... This will be a very deep and very focused PDC. Developers only.

 

The future is,

C

Does C9 want to sponsor any students to attend? 

spivonious said:

GoddersUK said:

*snip*

Ah, one of the Doctor Who spinoffs. It won't be the same without David Tenant.

Torchwood's nowhere near as good.  Too serious for my taste.

GoddersUK said:

spivonious said:

*snip*

 

4:55 - 5:24

Herbie Erasmus Flannigan? 

jamie said:

Sven Groot said:

*snip*

so nothing was done with this "idea" ...

 

an idea for good... an idea to make MS seem caring - to make it seem human

 

 

Ballmer could have been on CNN - urging other ceos to save the wetlands or the animals or anything...

 

but you blew a billion on KIN or whatever instead and sold 200 phones

 

*the 1970's called - they want their soul back

 

edit/ps... will ms EVER listen to ideas posted here? if not this one... i doubt it.

 * and how are the 2000 free fonts for web coming along... sheesh.

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