creditcard wrote:

Internet Explorer 8 should have better CSS2 support (and pass the Acid2 test). Microsoft also needs to get involved with HTML5 because right now Google is ruling the show in HTML5 participation. Like it or not HTML5 will become a standard and will likely be implemented by every web browser other then Internet Explorer. Microsoft needs to stop trying to build proprietary technologies on top of the web because they will fail and waste their time in the end. Silverlight is a waste of time just like DirectAnimation was before then. The web is an open platform get used to it Microsoft.

Rossj wrote:



BruceMorgan wrote:  Rossj wrote:  ... but while we wait it would be great to know if I can spend more time looking at using CSS 3, or whether I can start looking at using the Canvas element more widely.  I doubt I'll ever be able to use SVG natively in IE ( ) but a note to that effect would be great.  I (personally) don't want deep detail right now, but just a blanket statement that "We're looking into improving our CSS implementation, and looking forwards towards HTML 5 - and no we won't be pushing silverlight integrated into the browser at installation". IMHO, blanket statements are not effective communication tools.  They just beg more questions.  We make vague high level statements, then we have a chat session, then people ask detailed questions, we can't anwer them, and there is dissatifaction.

Okay, point taken.  How about a rough timescale? We'll be ready to talk in Feb ... or Jan ... or whatever?

W3bbo wrote:

Maybe I'm just homesick, but how do you guys stand it?

Rossj wrote:



DigitalDud wrote: I'm sure the IE team has done their market research.  Just because they're not blogging to the community at large, who are a bunch of jerks anyway, doesn't mean they don't know what people want in the browser.

If they knew what people wanted, FF would have no marketshare, after all if you have the perfect browser already with your OS - why go to the trouble of changing to a third-party one?  And how can they know what people want if they don't communicate with them.

Why make the pretence at creating blogs to be more transparent and communicative and then just close them up when you have shipped your product? People (devs specifically) DO want to know what is coming so that they can make strategic decisions for the future and at the moment NOBODY outside the IE team knows what is coming down the pipe.

In defense of the IE team they have put up with sooo much cr@p and nasty comments that from a more personal angle I can 100% understand why nobody would want to put themselves through that.

Dave, I'd be interested to know a little about how the IE team was structured - is there one single person who has the final decision on any particular feature, or is it more of a committee?

Bas wrote:



I'm noticing that a lot of MS teams are using their 'blogs' as vehicles to post press releases. There's no conversation whatsoever. If there are comments between the pingbacks, they'll mostly be ignored.

The WHS team was, and still is, pretty excellent. They engage in conversation on forums and their blog. The IE team blog is dismal, and the Live ID blog is a joke. Over 6 months between updates, and no replies to questions in comments.

littleguru wrote:

IE8 is going to come. Why should the announce each little feature when they haven't even implemented it yet? They will go public as soon as they have something in their hands...

jamie wrote:

I cant post a link but was "told" that IE does not support rounded css corners ( i want to say tables - but they are spans/divs/containers..whatever..

is this true? i saw the test site code works in FF (has css rounded corners) but in IE they are square

It would be great to say - "yes IE does have rounded corners in css"  ...but i dont know the code..

anyone?    possible?    no?

W3bbo wrote:



Do you have a replacement address I can annoy talk to you at?

Rossj wrote:

Let's hope Opera snap Dave up before it's too late

W3bbo wrote:



DMassy wrote:  jsampsonPC wrote: I've got an aspx file, same exact javascript, same exact markup (fc told me so )...yet IE runs a little slower... Is there any tool that you guys know of that will let me peer a little deeper into the performance of these two browsers? See http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2007/06/22/from-microsoft-teched-2007-web-development-tools-for-internet-explorer.aspx for a good roundup of tools for IE although profilers are lacking. There are also good posts on JScript Perf at http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/08/28/728654.aspx and http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/11/16/ie-javascript-performance-recommendations-part-2-javascript-code-inefficiencies.aspx and http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2007/01/04/ie-jscript-performance-recommendations-part-3-javascript-code-inefficiencies.aspx which you may find useful. Dave

'lo Dave, welcome back. What's happened since you've been gone? (I've popped onto your Spaces blog a few times).

jsampsonPC wrote:

I've got an aspx file, same exact javascript, same exact markup (fc told me so )...yet IE runs a little slower... Is there any tool that you guys know of that will let me peer a little deeper into the performance of these two browsers?

That may sound silly when the bug is so obvious to you but without very specific repro steps the team isn't going to be sure what you are referring to.

Thanks
-Dave

DMassy wrote:



SecretSoftware wrote:  ... Great. If you don't mind me asking, what is the number 1 thing that you learned from your experience in MS? And What advice/words of wisdom can you give to people who are outside of MS world but want to get inside to experiance MS world?

Wow! That is a great question. Let me get back to you tomorrow after I've thought about it a little!

Thanks
-Dave

• Avoid Making Assumptions
  Projects often fail or slip because someone assumed that another team was taking care of something or they assumed that the customer wanted X and not Y. Think about the details when you are writing a spec so that nothing is left to assumption.
• Know your Customer
  If you are writing a document, developing software or giving a presentation understand your customer/audience. Find someone who is representative of the customer and get to know them. What do they already know? What problems are they facing?
• Being Smart is not the same as Being Right
  Everyone at Microsoft is pretty smart. When I first started at Microsoft I was a little in awe of all the smart people. However sometimes you need to challenge the smart people as they may be making assumptions or not have a good understanding of the customer.
• LISTEN
  This is possibly the most important thing. If you are disagreeing with someone on an issue then take the time to really understand what the other person's argument is. They may actually be right and at the very least understanding their argument will help you to present a counter argument.

Thanks for all the kind messages
-Dave

SecretSoftware wrote:


...
Great. If you don't mind me asking, what is the number 1 thing that you learned from your experience in MS?

And

What advice/words of wisdom can you give to people who are outside of MS world but want to get inside to experiance MS world?

SecretSoftware wrote:



What are your future plans? What will you be doing? Is this a retirement?

stun wrote:



Ok...how should I start this rant.....


Everybody loves fast and responsive applications.
For example, IE6 and Visual Studio 2003.
In my opinion, they are really fast and responsive.


Starting from IE7 and VS2005, these applications have become slower.
What happened?


I feel like IE7 feels slow and unresponsive.
For example, when I open an EMPTY browser tab,
it takes "a while" when the new tab is opening and showing "Connecting...".
Much worse when you cold-start IE7 compared to IE6.



Visual Studio 2003 used to be really fast and responsive in my opinion.
Yes I am well aware that VS2005 has a LOT more features.
But the performance (or) speed is really horrible as of now.
VS2005 SP1 doesn't make any difference either.


I have lost my enthusiasm of using Visual Studio.
I feel like Visual Studio is as bloated and slow like those Java IDEs (Eclipse, NetBeans, Java Ent. Studio).


I feel like Visual Studio team has turned Visual Studio
into a bloated IDE while trying to add new features.



I dont know how much it bothers most of you regarding performance,
but I am very very annoyed about this.


What has gone wrong? I miss the good old IE6 and VS2003 performance.

Sampy wrote:



I'll let Bruce jump in here if he wants to talk about IE's support of certain standards over others. The IE team is in active development so the work is being done (even if I'm not sure what work is actually on the schedule). It takes time to do these things but we're getting there.

jamie wrote:

* on topic but not related

i needed to change the css of a live site - just to test - and was told to use the firefox dev toolbar.

i decided to load the ie dev toolbar instead - but couldnt figure out how to edit live - so the page would refresh after changing something

i ended up having to download the FF one - which was alot more simpler - and it had "edit css" right there.

change something - and the page refreshed with the changes

does IE dev toolbar do this?

* i found ie displayed all the info - but everything i clicked was unclickable...

?

jsampsonPC wrote:

Thanks, Dave!

I wasn't trying to start any trouble, just trying to get educated on how a large corporate team develops for two different platforms. What type of communications exist, and what types of unique goals are set for a single product running on two exclusive tracks.

Sorry paolo, if you thought I wanted to argue I certainly don't. If this is fixed in IE7, that's awesome!

Dave, are you guys giving any stats on IE7? Compared to the users of IE6...like, in your estimate how many (%) have switched to the newer version?