David Teitlebaum [MSFT]

Better late than never, eh?

 

I dumped a bunch of the demos + source on skydrive:  http://cid-3ffaec66aac45172.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/WPF^_3.5^_PS1^_Demos

It should be publicly accessible.

 

Let me know if you are having trouble accessing it, or if you want some other demos that aren't here.

Thanks!
David

Unfortunately D3DImage does require full trust.  There are a variety of reasons for this, but among the most fundamental, the WPF team can't guarantee that the D3D APIs are safe for use in a partial trust environment.  Additionally, the SetBackBuffer method has the signature:

public void SetBackBuffer(D3DResourceType backBufferType, IntPtr backBuffer)

which takes an IntPtr as a param, necessitating full trust.

Murrderizer wrote:

Fantastic demo.  I have a quick question re D3DImage:  Will it work in an xbap?  In other words, if you have a managed dx9 rendering back-end, will it fuse with the new dx interop without requiring full trust?

Thanks.

Right, the multipass shader effect class has been cut and won't be in the final builds of WPF.  If any of it is in the beta, it's just a stub.

MultiInput effects *will* be in the final release, but shouldn't be in the beta.

aL_ wrote:



David Teitlebaum [MSFT] wrote: You can use any of the three filtering methods we now expose (bilinear, nearest neighbor, and the "Fant scaler").  These are selected from the RenderOptions.BitmapScalingMode attached property, and affect the entire subgraph from which they're applied.

sweeet

also i vaguely remember you saying that there wasnt any multipass support for pixel shaders? but what about the MultipassShaderEffect Class?  is that depricated or something? or am i just wrong about the multipass stuff? i noticed that MultipassShaderEffect doesnt have a RegisterPixelShaderSamplerProperty  method or any pixelshader(s) property though.. can you elaborate on how that works?

In WPF3D we haven't yet added a mechanism to use a custom pixel shader when your 3D object is being rasterized.  The new effects are applicable to UIElements -- ie 2D.

That having been said, you could use a our new DX Interop (D3DImage) and do whatever you wanted in 3D, but I gather that's not exactly what you wanted.

aL_ wrote:



(yet) another question how about pixelshading for 3d models? is that possible somehow? since there is now a pixelshaderwrapper with constants and stuff, the step shouldnt be to long i'd imagine (but what do i know:P)

 

Multi-input effects didn't make it because we ran out of time in our compressed release schedule to get it implemented and tested properly before we released.  In the grand scheme of things we nailed the most important effect scenarios with the features we did get, so the loss of multi-pass was not a deal-breaker.

aL_ wrote:



David Teitlebaum [MSFT] wrote: Right, the multipass shader effect class has been cut and won't be in the final builds of WPF.  If any of it is in the beta, it's just a stub. MultiInput effects *will* be in the final release, but shouldn't be in the beta.

oh ok can you talk anythign about why it was cut? it seemed like a good idea to me but i guess the panel (or something) with an effect containg another panel with another effect works as well but it just seems a little more cumbersome to me but im sure you have another trick up your sleeve

havent found anything about multiInput so far but i figured you'd just register more DPs as sampler properties and hook them onto diffrent registers (can you do that by the way?)

We're just now in the early planning stages for the post-SP, so nothing has really been decided yet.

aL_ wrote:



David Teitlebaum [MSFT] wrote: In WPF3D we haven't yet added a mechanism to use a custom pixel shader when your 3D object is being rasterized.  The new effects are applicable to UIElements -- ie 2D. That having been said, you could use a our new DX Interop (D3DImage) and do whatever you wanted in 3D, but I gather that's not exactly what you wanted.

ok any thing like that in the works post sp1? i guess perhaps you could apply a visual element and then try to massage the normal data into the shader with a property or something but that sounds hard

David Teitlebaum [MSFT] wrote: Multi-input effects didn't make it because we ran out of time in our compressed release schedule to get it implemented and tested properly before we released.

oh, im sorry thats not what i meant i realise that the time to get stuff in the beta was limited and if you had gotten everything in, it whouldnt be a beta no i ment, why was multipass shaders cut (you awnserd this below)

David Teitlebaum [MSFT] wrote: In the grand scheme of things we nailed the most important effect scenarios with the features we did get, so the loss of multi-pass was not a deal-breaker.

alright, thanks 

The performance of D3DImage is really scenario dependent, but generally we've had very good results... meaning full frame rates for complex scenes.

David

Internally the term "customer" is really generic and refers to anyone who uses the thing you build.  Thus you can have "internal customers" who are just another team within the company.

And as Tim mentioned, the process of choosing what features to add/improve is really pretty thorough and includes an assessment of who/what scenarios would benefit from the work, what the risk would be from a performance, stability, security, or architectural standpoint, and an rough idea of how much time that work would require.

Ion Todirel wrote:

I'm a little bit confused, David said he's also responsible for design and ensure the WPF meets customers requirements, what customers? How do they decide what features to add/improve in WPF?

You can use any of the three filtering methods we now expose (bilinear, nearest neighbor, and the "Fant scaler").  These are selected from the RenderOptions.BitmapScalingMode attached property, and affect the entire subgraph from which they're applied.

aL_ wrote:

watching the video again a question comes to mind,

can you use other filtering techniques than nearset neighbur on a writable bitmap?  how much work is it to get something like that to work?

I will work on getting these posted soon.  They are almost ready to go.  And I believe Brandon is working on getting his demos (the multi input transitions) posted too! 

DukeNukem wrote:

Love the demo's. Can't help thinking it will probably be compared to 'Compiz Fusion' by some. But this is really good, it aren't 'just effects', these are thing we can accually use !

Where can we download the demo's given and compile/run/render them ourselfs? I for one would love to see the performance of that on my pc.

Realy great work!