Discussions

14 minutes ago, Ian2 wrote

*snip*

Also, I'm thinking its going to run Windows 8 Apps, is that an unrealistic expectation?

Yes it's unrealistic because it's running the Windows kernel like WP.

@fanbaby: LOL! Very insightful!

3 hours ago, cheong wrote

@DeathByVisualStudio:The simple answer is that there's delicated website for ASP.NET - http://www.asp.net/ . And for most .NET framework sub-forums in MSDN forum, you can see redirection to http://forums.asp.net/ at the Announcements section or pinned post.

Just like IIS ( http://www.iis.net/">http://www.iis.net ) the web technologies have their individual site. There's nothing special.

I'm glad you agree that the reference is buried.

33 minutes ago, Charles wrote

I'd like to see a modern version of SimEarth, one where the computational aspects of the AI take place on lots of cores in the cloud. Even in the case of on-premise computation, this machine is quite impressive.

SimEarth 2014!!!

C

Sounds like the start of SkyNet...

IMO the problem doesn't start here with corporate taxes; it starts with all of the money pouring into our governments from corporations and their phony SIGs, PACs, and lobbyists. We need campaign finance reform in order to start in fixing the corporate tax issue amongst other things. Gotta get corporate money out of politics before you'll see change...

Why does this remind me so much of W8?

1. No comprimises
2. Great branding
3. Bigger than competitors.

So far nothing but more facepalm in my book.

@felix9: Finally! That was driving me nuts in W8 and one reason I wasn't paying attention to Windows 8 Store Apps. I'm sure that will tick another adoption box for corporate folks. Thanks for sharing.

13 hours ago, evildictait​or wrote

*snip*

When it's an engineering decision. For heaven's sake, DBVS. Learn to read.

I'm reading just fine. You're just over-the-top assuming that the issues I've brought up here on C9  is the net sum of the feedback I've given to Microsoft. C9 isn't a bug reporting system. I'm not going to drag each and every Connect issue nor feedback tool post into C9.

Along the lines of what contextfree said I think in order to be more successful Microsoft as a whole needs to be less sensitive than you in constraining the conversation and more willing to listen and respond to its customers at every level -- whether it be a bug fix or a design issue.

Also bugfixes are never executive decisions. Think about it this way. An executive decision is one made by someone earning $2,000,000+ a year and who has a personal secretary who prints off their calandar appointments for the week which are mainly meetings with people who manage people who manage people who write code.

Except that in your own words you alluded they don't have complete control:

PMs have no shortage of people with opinions on how to make the product they own better. The shortage is always in amount of staff-time available to do all of the neat things you want to do with your product.

And where do those constraints come from? Executive decision.

But please, I'm pretty sure everyone in literally the entire world is bored of the discussion about start menus and Silverlight. Just, please, for heaven's sake. Just get over it. Yes. Microsoft is evil and kill puppies and are the reason Unicorns are extinct. Whatever. Just stop going on about it. The whole conversation is so far beyond tedious it's unreal. It's just you on your little soap box shouting at the top of your voice at the literally nobody that cares.

I don't know about you but when we're trying to figure out where Microsoft is going I think you have to look at what they've done in the past (especially now that they've curtailed sharing anything other than a curated vision of the future). That means we'll continue to talk about the death of SL in the same breath that we talk about what is to come. Maybe I'm just out of my mind to think this was a place to discuss the future of Microsoft's technologies...

@evildictaitor:

Wow. Talk about a pointless rant. Nice circular argument. That's the best "you're holding it wrong" argument I've heard in a long time. 

So let's see how this feedback cycle works:

1. Report feedback on "how to make their product more useful to you"
2. Developers, PMs, and the like are powerless to implement (or fix in the case of bugs)
3. Changes require executive approval -> feedback goes in circular file
4. Users get the impression Microsoft is arrogant and unconcerned
5. Users stop providing feedback or reporting issues.
6. Profit!

When is it ever not an executive decision? Even bug fixes fall under executive approval to some degree as they decide the budget and time constraints.

Cap it off with your typical grandiose assumptions that we're providing the wrong kind of feedback or expressing feedback in the wrong way and you've got yourself a great defense. Do you really think our feedback starts and ends with these posts on C9?

22 minutes ago, evildictait​or wrote

*snip*

Wait. What? The reason things move slowly at big companies is because change is managed to make sure that products that consumers use is stable and safe. It's a big deal if you ship a version of Windows that kills all of the batch files that literally the entire US financial system run on top of, for instance, and so for every week you spend writing code to edit cmd.exe, you probably want to spend 3 weeks making sure you didn't just introduce a security vulnerability, a performance hit, an app-compat hit and that it works kinda like you said it would.

That's something startups just don't care about.

So why do you assume that when I say "things move slowly" that the source of the slowness and the basis of the complaint is from the diligence required to maintain a huge and critical code base? A lot of the slowness is from politics and the inability to turn criticism into improvements.

Also, I'm not sure that criticism is unwelcome at Microsoft. In fact all of the products used at Microsoft have big "feedback" buttons specifically inviting criticism (you can see it in some of the C9 videos. It's usually a button that's always visible in the top right or bottom right of every website and app that Microsoft builds).

Yeah and we know how well those feedback buttons worked for Office, W8, and the W8 Store Apps that Microsoft produced for the initial release. Again because of politics and the inability to turn criticism into improvements these "feedback" buttons are pretty worthless.

The difference is between giving useful, actionable feedback versus just being a douche-hat. Maintaining a dialogue with the product team to let them know your concerns and requirements about their product is in the former category. Publishing your beefs on the Internet, or stamping your feet and saying that they are wrong about everything from NTFS to the C++ compiler to Powershell not being in CMD.exe is quite firmly in the latter.

IMO some justify ignoring criticism no matter how its stated or on what manner it's proposed. The default reaction always seems to focus on the delivery rather than the content even when the delivery is wrapped in all kinds of sugary goodness. It gets to the point that rathet than providing feedback you are having to manipulate people accept your point of view as valid (not to be confused with "the only valid point of view"). Let's face it: nobody's $h1t stinks and we're all cowards.