@Charles: He was the man, I'd buy him a beer, or a cola if he doesnt drink nomatter which team he's supercharging. AKA hes one of my fav guys to get on C9 along with Erik.
Mar 24, 2011 at 5:17 PM
Mar 24, 2011 at 2:27 PM
Greeting, Im glad to hear that you had some new parallel sorting algoritms but its still not my favourite sort of all time If you really want to sort 2 million pixels, I'd highly suggest "ShearSort". It maintains data locality fairly well and would be insanely perfect for GPU sorting too since core communication happens predictivaly and at once for all little buckets, Way better than hugely recursive functions like a Quicksort even though IntroSort is fairly good for anything less than 10,000 element to sort. As soon at the amount needing to get sorted increases its till breaks down... call stacks grow too damn large with even those highly recursive things unless you have tail recursion in the PPL implementation being used.
Thats a great example in The highly buggy Java which shows a ShrearSort advantage with only 10000 elements The more elements... the faster in comparison ShearSort is. It's plenty fun to mess with the parameters since you can use many algorithms listed below the sort to see how each work by tweaking the URL.
I keep my own ShearSort around for fun because it's my personal favourite, but its sort of tricky too implement. My wish is to have a highly available ShearSort which ANYTONE can benefit from given the header file from ConcrtExtras.
Also he did a good job, he seems slightly nervous but we're all developers here, more camera time should help him out on the whiteboard since hes quite a good member of the team.
Thanks Charles for asking and trying to pry open their design decisions for things but honestly... I miss Rick Malloy... he was my Parallel C++ hero on C9.
Nice to hear, hope everything goes smoothly for the release.
I'm not as adamant concerning the HTML5 spec as I am the C++0x spec, as tags and features of HTML5 unlike C++ is completely possible and fine to implement as piecemeal. Theres no real need to worrk about trying to go the whole way or push boundaries with HTML5 as tags are weird and able to be simulated using alternate methods.
Just keep working on it with service packs or patches as things marinate and HTML5 gets forged into what it will truly be. I just hope this is why I consider HTML5 implementation as possible to be done in phases and the C++0x isn't as maleable for choice on what to and what not to impliment.
FYI... This might be too late to hope for but I'd LOVE bookmark syncing to my Windows Live SkyDrive similar to the Office 2010 has the ability to save directly to SkyDrive. Bookmark sync is one of the really amazing things which doesn't seem like its too useful, but since every other browser has bookmark sync, and considering how many .... Non-developers just want bookmarks backed up and restored during a system re-installation. Such a bookmark sync mechanism would really help if you guys/gurls have not already thought about such a convenience. Exporting/Importing to an HTML bookmark file is too oldschool and too reminicent of database restoration IMO.
Until next time.
A few things to point out... is that you want another VC6, because it was really that awesome. It was released BEFORE the C99 standard, so it wasn't required to implement it. Maybe you should connect its awesomeness to the fact there was no need for true standards compliance at that time, and that each VS has just been downhill from that.
Ragardless of how much logic or business problems you try to back up our lack of support for the past standard and implying why you also don't want to support 98% of the new standard, I believe to be a VERY horrible idea. In order for Visual Studio and the Compiler to match the awesome factor that VC6 used to be, you will NEED to have at least 92%-98%standards compliance unless it DIRECTLY destroys backwards compatibility without some sort of work-around.
I don't care if you need to make a "Standard Compliant" build of your compiler just for this purpose but you MUST play nice with the rest of the developer ecosystem which is the "black matter" of all developers, otherwise you will always be getting flamed about such things for something I believe you can indeed fix. I want standards compliance more than anything Microsoft can deliver when it comes to their compiler. I don't mean to sound demanding or greedy but I WILL continue to use both VC++10, GCC 4.6 snapshots and even Intel's ICC C/C++ compiler just to have those standards compliant implementations. Now that Visual Studio does have a standard which to worry about supporting, unlike when VC6 was born, I believe to give the prior beauty back to the VC++ compiler and even IDE you will seriously need to hammer down on trying to nail compliance as one of your top priorities.
Those standards bodies are around for a reason, and have also put an MASSIVE amount of resources towards developing such standards, so as they are a master of their standardsation craft, others are masters of their own. But they took ~10 years of planning and hardcore industrial work just as you have, to create the standard known as C++0x which I believe was made for a purpose. There are some pretty joke standards and informal standards out there I do agree. But imagine a huge swarm of Stephan T Lavavej's working day and night for a decade on this new standard, its not exatly a standard which was jokingly created or full of coin-toss decisions. They have credit for their profession, and truly considering their decisions in todays world which C++ WILL pave the future of computing, merits more than just business constrains for deciding to do their job for them and picking apart their master carved standard as piecemeal features.
Therefore, consider those release timings of the C99 and VC6, opinions of many desiring the features which are in C++0x, and the reasons people even decide to use a different compiler so that you can try to attract people back to allow 100% usage of VC++ while on the Windows platform.
Just to clarify though, I did immensely enjoy this video, he is a pretty cool dude. I just tend to really be direct with my words hoping to provoke thought and constructive conversation even if I'm not correct 100% of the time .
I can't believe how much I love those time markers of content links to skip to in the video
I keep re-watching this since its nice hearing Herb Sutter speak in a converesation more than in a presentation setting infront of a huge audience like at PDC or the many previous presentations I've heard him deliver.
It's sort of funny because I still am in love with my 1st language My 1st language I learnt was C++ before backtracking into C to learn why C++ was needed and why classes were created from the creators point-of-view.
(I dont consider VisualBasic as my 1st language since I had a very weird discovery -> hate relationship with it in grade 3-4 by doing the classical typing code from pages of books to make completely useless games/programs after hours of typing lol)
@staceyw: Yes indeed if you limit usage by proper API design, in any language it's easy to constrain usage to only safe usage the real trick is allowing both power AND correct usage of the abstraction.
@Charles: I suppose it depends if the "Expert" is always going to be Erik. I'm just fine with Erik as my name being "Eric" I feel a connction to the conversation in addition to many other reasons, just suggesting . But was wasn't sure whether experts from separate domains were close to a requirement for you. If Erik isn't the only candidate to be the Expert asking the deep technical product questions along with you, anyone on the CLR or BCL team would be pretty cool to have. Depending on how managed Joe Duffy is,personally I think he'd be pretty cool to join in on the fun again I miss his good conversation on C9, he was also a very functional guy which saw eye-to-eye with Erik on many things when not being limited by product release work.
I don't exactly care who speaks on camera so long as the super awesome C++0x content on C9 gets some attention and exploration
@Mr Crash: I must say I notice you having mostly negative stuff to say, you are definitely walking on the edge of trolling a little bit. I'm sure theres other ways in which you could word the feedback/comment to actually have them consider your words of advise instead of writing your comment off and disconcern it.
Well if you plan on having some extremely technical and in-depth C++ conversations occur, may I suggest the two speakers which might actually be able to augment and pick apart eachothers brains?
My two C++ Expert 2 Expert candidates which you could pair with Herb Sutter are: Don McCrady or Rick Molloy. Both of which are awesome and whom I respect for C++ conversation.
If not Erik, which isn't exactly bad, but I must aggree he is a little too engrained in the managed language world these days, unless having 2 different views are more helpful for one to ask the other relevcant questions insstead of having both as native C++ pro's?
What do you fellow 9er's think may be a good pairing for C++0x topics if they are available to speak to??
As I watch the video I'll jot down points I'd like to mention, time to enjoy 2 of my favourite speakers talk about my 2nd favourite language C++0x:
I'm glad Erik done his usual and started picking apart static auto type inference instead of just trying to rush towards lambdas The level on which subjects get explorerd is a unique trait of the Expert 2 Expert series, and I value this trait very highly.
WOO I'm exceedingly happy that STL shall be having a new advanced STL series in the medium future from now.And considering how STL says his own last name, its sort of sounds like lao-oo-aide, far from its spelling .
Erik, I'm telling you, I LOVE Haskell, it is my #1 favourite language, but happly admit with pride that C++ is my 2nd favourite/used language, and I highly encourage you to have a good healthy serious look at C++0x specifically, not the old standard.
You may be trying to keep too firm a grasp on those pesky VB/C# since you had such an influence in their creation and evolution
Herb you are awesome, and thank you for making C++0x what it is today by making excellent design decisions on the comitee.
PS we need a std::thread library implementation integrated into what the PPL has been developed as, and please consider VC2010SP1 to also feature uniform initialization syntax next
Thank you again Charles!!
I wish TV's and LCD Screens stopped trying to have 3D content, its CRAP, 3D Movies AREN'T COOL IN YOUR HOUSE NVIDIA!! THEY KILL/Strain YOUR EYESIGHT beyond belief!, 3D projections in this fashion is WAY too skewed to stupidity.... For the love of god please invent a new technology to try and get our money as this 3D content display is Bull-maneur. Or I will be tempted to invent my own new thing which isn't so damn cheesy/useless.