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GoingNative 3: The C++/CX Episode with Marian Luparu
Dec 28, 2011 at 3:47 AM@Ann thank you for paraphrasing my post. Most appreciated. Thank you.
@Glen Thanks for the link.
Now to answer your queston:
I'd like to see mr sutter's qualifications because his "track record" as you called it, so far is just that he can talk a lot - but does very little actual real work. And from this link (given to me by PFYB) http://herbsutter.com/2011/10/25/garbage-collection-synopsis-and-c/ you'll see that he has actually very little idea what he is talking about. Concentrate on exchange between him and David Abrahams.
And why do I want to know what mr sutter's formal education is? Because I'm fed-up with careerists like him, who without proper education are put on absolutely unsuitable positions and are absulutely unprepared to do any real work - because they don't have right/correct education. That's why.
And as my feeling goes, mr sutter doesn't have formal education which would indicate that he is a suitable guy to be a C++ architect. But I'm happy to say that I was wrong only someone has to prove it to me. But he wan't. Becase he can't. Because he doesn't have anything to show except smart * responses and patronizing talk. That's what his track record is so far.
As for my language, first, have to correct you here, I've never called anyone cretin, you see Glen, you just repeating what Charles told you, without actually paying attention what I'm saying and why. Anyway, that's not important. The important thing is that I believe that in extreme situations extreme measures are needed. This is extreme situation. That's why I'm using the kind of language I'm using. I'm not going to say to someone when he lies to me that his truth is different to mine. No! He is a lair. In case of mr sutter when at his position, he did nothing to help C++, on the contrary it seems like everything is done to hurt C++, what in that situation mr sutter should be called? The guy who tried to kill C++? I'm ok with that too.
And I'm sorry to say Glen but if you cannot overcome the negative feeling and see truth in my words just because I'm using strong language, then just simply don't read my posts. It's easy I think. You see my nick and skip it.
But I tell you one thing with reference to that - I and II war could've been avoided if diplomacy hadn't been used.
And if I'll get blocked from this site it will just prove my point more than anything.
I'd like you also to clarify on that, becase well, it is not clear what you mean when you say:
"However, language is of no use if you can't control it to be understood too. You still need perspective, or you aren't talking clay, you are talking doggie chocolate!"
Regards
GoingNative 4: Jim Springfield on ATL, GoingNative Conference - Register Today!
Dec 27, 2011 at 4:58 AM@Glen: when you say:
"Remember, it's a programming language, not more."
No, to me it's not. To me, it is a way of life, it is the way you express yourself through your ideas, the way you realize yourself by creating. The way my FREEDOM is defined. Democratically. And by what body my freedom is guaranteed. ISO C++ std.
If to you all of those things are just a language and you can easily switch from one way to other and you accept that from now on someone will tell you what language you have to speak in order to be understood, then Glen, we are made from very different clay.
GoingNative 3: The C++/CX Episode with Marian Luparu
Dec 27, 2011 at 1:44 AM@Charles Just to correct you because you're wrong (again) in what you're saying:
"C++/CX and WRL are what will ship and they're excellent tools for the job at hand."
Charles by saying this you just contradicted yourself. At one point in time you've said that WRL approach is feasible but impractical, now you're saying that they're excellent tools. Well I suppose that's how the regime's machine works.
And when you're saying:
" People are building apps with them today and the consensus is overwhelmingly positive. "
Would you mind and point us to the place where people are actually expressing their positive opinions on a subject? Somehow they're not here.
And could you also ask mr herb to tell us what university he finished, what titles he has, what is his qualification/education background. Looked on the web, couldn't find anywere. But surely he must have (not some) education in the field, he poses as an expert mustn't he?
So just to summarize:
1. WRL is not an excellent tool even thoug once you say it is and few days after you say it isn't and few days after that you say that it is. Get it!
2. Where are those people who think CX is a great tool for a job?
3. What is a FORMAL education of mr sutter.
Cheers
GoingNative 4: Jim Springfield on ATL, GoingNative Conference - Register Today!
Dec 25, 2011 at 8:08 AM@Charles, and just to make this more interesting, (and to see what's the community's opinion, or you not interested in hearing that either?) let's ask people what they think. Guys, could you please, if you agree with me that mr sutter throughout his postings and explanations he gave in this thread http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/C9-GoingNative/GoingNative-3-The-CCX-Episode-with-Marian-Luparu demonstrated snake like vagueness and evasiveness could you please post "I agree" and those who don't agree with me could you please post "I disagree".
Thank you.
GoingNative 4: Jim Springfield on ATL, GoingNative Conference - Register Today!
Dec 25, 2011 at 7:43 AM@Charles, no, you won't. Firstly, just because my post offends you it doesn't mean it offends others, secondly, just because I'm telling truth that is inconvenient for you, it doesn't mean that others may not hear it. Deal with it! Thirdly, wasn't that you who said:
"We really want to hear from you, so please tweet feedback to @C9GoingNative (follow us!) and send your requests, ideas, complaints, praises, hate mail, and love letters to C9GoingNative [at] hotmail [dot] com. We will read and respond to all messages! That's how we roll, brothers and sisters. And if you're a Facebook user, please join our C9::GoingNative Facebook group."
I believe that if you encourage people to communicate with you no matter in what form nor style then you should be prepared that people will do so. So deal with it!
[Censored by Charles]
GoingNative 3: The C++/CX Episode with Marian Luparu
Dec 15, 2011 at 11:14 PM@Charles, you didn't get it again. And frankly speaking I don't think that any of you (MS guys) neither want nor care to get it. The point Tomas made is that everything what's needed in order to cooperate with WinRT is easily achievable just by using pure, standard conforming (ISO C++ standard - that's for mr sutter specially, for it was only he who seems not to understand what standard is important for C++ community) C++. No foreign extensions are neither needed nor necessary. CX is a stupid looking guy on the job who doesn't really needs to be there (nor knows any better how to do this particular job) but his dad has connections so they employed him.
Short story - there is absolutely no need for CX - C++ already provides everything and more in order to allow efficient interacting with WinRT - proved by Tomas.
@Jim, Jim when you were saying in one of your posts that before CX came to live and people where thinking about its desing, someone in the room said, why not to use CLI syntax, and everyone started laughing at him, wasn't that mr sutter who said that?
And last note: Charles, you're wrong again, C doesn't let you go lower than C++, they are allowing you to reach exactly the same level, they just provide different levels of abstraction.
When will they learn?
GoingNative 3: The C++/CX Episode with Marian Luparu
Nov 30, 2011 at 11:17 PM@Glen, that's my point exactly - it is very hard to switch to another compiler if you have large code base and I'm sure MS is aware of that. What I see and what I understand from this and few other threads is that we (C++ community) are with master-slave relationship when comes to Microsoft. And as long as this will continue there are always going be attempts to brake the chains and be free!
C++ Rules And Rocks!
Forever!
@ me_myself_and_cpp: From: http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/2059755-move-forward-and-bring-back-vs-ui-written-in-nativ?page=3 "The only reason Raymond had several post instead of just one was that he intended to show his toy program evolving over time. Nor was the sequence of blog posts an example of just how well .NET performs. Raymond was *not* trying to outperform C# code put by Rico. Rico did try to outperform C++ code put by Raymond, without too much success. That's it."
When people will get it?
GoingNative 3: The C++/CX Episode with Marian Luparu
Nov 30, 2011 at 12:01 AM@Glen the only thing I'm saying that professional programmers will us VS11. Either they like it or not. What, you're thinking that company you work for will switch to differen compiler because you don't like it? Think again.
And just to be clear: I do not agree with MS politics, behavior and plans for future (lack of C++11 expecially), but this doesn't change the fact that people will still use their product. For the same reason why they use Windows. And for the same reason why they use Office And talk to you few years from now you will see it for yourself.
And perhaps the best example for you will be yourself and your company. Are they leaving Visual Studio? If yes then you're right, if not I'm right.
GoingNative 3: The C++/CX Episode with Marian Luparu
Nov 29, 2011 at 6:09 AMGoingNative 3: The C++/CX Episode with Marian Luparu
Nov 27, 2011 at 3:22 AM@Charles please stop. This what you're doing (especially relinking well read by everyone threads) is actually insulting, arogant and makes me think that you're having a great laugh with other lads from MS on our (C++ community) expense. Either behave like a man or stop posting. And if you cannot understand what is asked simply say it and get someone (Jim perhaps) who is capable of doing so.
Oh, and one more thing, could you please do not invite mr sutter anymore, as he proved on this thread that he is also incapable of reading long threads and understand what is asked in them. I think most people will agree with me that what mr sutter showed here was just pathetic and we just do not want to read/listen to what he has/wants to say anymore.
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