Discussions

Hi guys,

Have any of you heard if Windows 7 is going to ship with .NET Framework 4.0?

.NET 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 3.0 and 3.5 are installed default in the beta.

/Klaus

corona_coder said:

Minh said:

*snip*

McCain will win this election.  His speeh the other night, flawless and to the point.  It was one of those speeches that was on par with the Gettysburg address.  It was an event worthy of THE PRESIDENT.  I have no doubt in my mind that President McCain and Vice President Palin will utterly destroy Obama.  Obama will destroy this country if he gets in.  McCain has and will always be my 1st choice for president.

Obama is like Microsoft, a sinking ship and Obama will lose.  Russia and everyone who would oppress and torture innocents are put on notice.  I even think the FSF and RMS himself are endorsing McCain.

We only use LINQ for our business applications (so far LINQ-To-SQL, but soon ADO.NET entity framework). Our BI-department still use stored procedures.

I would love to never write another line of T-SQL ever again!

mawcc wrote:

I really hope that we get to know more today. At least a timeframe for RTM availablility for MSDN subscribers.

I'm a little bit annoyed that such a big secret is made of the estimated RTM date of VS 2008, even though a lot of people currently using Beta 2 would benefit from beeing able to plan their switch to RTM accordingly. Requests for more details on Scott Guthrie's blog have been left unanswered so far.

For me Vista has been a bit of a disappointment, I have had too many hardware problems with Vista, mainly with graphics drivers. In previous threads on Channel 9 others expressed the same frustrations.

So, what is the best thing Microsoft can do to restore the faith in Vista? Is SP1 enough or should they rebrand Vista as Vista SE? Should they just hurry up and release Windows Seven?

JChung2006 wrote:



Klaus Enevoldsen wrote: Would it be possible to render the controls in XP and use the native ones in Vista?

Microsoft went down the "render the controls in legacy OS" route before with the VB runtime libraries several years ago.  It was unpleasant.  I remember ListView and TreeView columns looking and working like crap (redundant borders, column resizing behaviors broken, etc).  For a more recent example, I recall a Niner (Rossj, I think?) expressing displeasure with the pain that ugly WPF rendering in XP was causing him.

I think they're looking forward, not backward. Maybe we'll see Vista-style controls in the next version of the .NET framework a few years from now (Windows 7 timeframe). That version probably won't be required to support XP.

JChung2006 wrote:



Vista controls are available to Win32 programmers.  The problem with including Vista controls with a .NET framework release is that the framework has to run on operating systems other than Windows Vista, namely Windows XP.

Klaus Enevoldsen wrote:



blowdart wrote:  Sabot wrote: As a consequence they have been actively re-writting old VB6 applications in C# on the back of 'VB6 is going out of support soon and we can't have applications unsupported' as the justification for the last two years and now with the management team it's an ingrained policy. My previous company also actively promoted migrating away from VB6 as well. 1) Migrating from VB makes business sense because of the unsupported issue. 2) I've mentored VB developers through migrations and I almost always recommend C#. Why? Because a complete switch in language gives people a bigger kick to think in .net terms. I've seen people treat VB.NET as, well, VB. Big static objects named Util to replace a module. It's not pretty; the paradigm shift invovled with thinking in a new language does, in my experience, make for a better (if longer) migration/learning process.

What you are talking about is the difference between good and bad developers. I guess there are good and bad C# developers also.

It is just as likely that you create bad code in C# as in VB7+.

It is amazing how many developers that cannot seperate eg. the GUI from the rest of the code.

blowdart wrote:



Sabot wrote: As a consequence they have been actively re-writting old VB6 applications in C# on the back of 'VB6 is going out of support soon and we can't have applications unsupported' as the justification for the last two years and now with the management team it's an ingrained policy. My previous company also actively promoted migrating away from VB6 as well.

1) Migrating from VB makes business sense because of the unsupported issue.
2) I've mentored VB developers through migrations and I almost always recommend C#. Why? Because a complete switch in language gives people a bigger kick to think in .net terms. I've seen people treat VB.NET as, well, VB. Big static objects named Util to replace a module. It's not pretty; the paradigm shift invovled with thinking in a new language does, in my experience, make for a better (if longer) migration/learning process.

Microsoft has released a beta of their UX Guidelines for Windows Vista. It is a great guide and it has a lot of great advice. Those 600+ pages are easily read. J Lots of screen shots of good and bad ways to create GUI.

I want to follow those guidelines!

But I can’t!

Because the controls that are used in Vista are not a part of the .NET framework. I could create the controls myself, but I like RAD and making a lot of user controls to follow the guidelines is not RAD.

I guess I could buy the controls from a third part company. But I don’t want to!

This is what I want:

1)      When Microsoft releases a new OS with new guidelines, all ordinary controls that they use should be included in the .NET framework delivered with the OS.

2)      When Microsoft releases a new version of Office I want the controls that they use (so that when I create applications that interact with Office, I can create a consistent UI that follow that written in the UX guide).

3)      Faster delivery of the Guidelines when the OS is released (the UX guidelines is not yet completed and Vista is almost a year old).

Any feedback?