3 hours ago, BitFlipper wrote

*snip*

There's still hope though... Once it becomes clear that very few people really want or care for the Metro UI on a desktop computer, MS can release a patch that restores previous desktop functionality. That includes restoring the Start menu as well as unfuglyfying the desktop UI again. Technically this shouldn't be too difficult and should not break any compatibility. The Metro UI can still be an option, just not shoved down our throats.

Microsoft admitting they were wrong and lied when they said the ui had been tested by real Neutral testers.

Never going to happen. Would be like christians admitting their religion is wrong and based on a sci-fi book.

Microsoft will most likely lock in the users even more and try to be more controlling like apple in windows 9.

Wouldn't surprise me if open source and hobby development were completely forbidden in w9.
They have already made it difficult and slowed down boot up of all open source OS:s with the "secure boot" bullshit. Of course we know secure boot was only a anti-piracy measure but come on. Where was the common sense when hardware vendors were forced into this ?

Where is the common sense in the industry at all really these days ?

When will they realize that people that pirated windows will just move to linux ?

This whole thing pisses me off immensely.

I miss the good old days when tech companies were smart and used common sense.

Who is to blame for this stupification ?

Bosses do not listen to their employees and the company do not listen to its income source (consumers).

How come morons are able to get into a position that can damage a company so ?

This is the political scene all over again.

That is still sad to hear.

Take this code and compile it in release mode / win32 and look at it in debugging.

#include <iostream>
#include <functional>

using namespace std;

inline void func() {
    cout << "func" << endl;
}

struct s_func {
    inline void operator()() {
        cout << "s_func" << endl;
    }
};

template <typename Functor>
void test_template(Functor f) {
    f();
}

void test_function(function<void()> f) {
    f();
}

int main()
{
    test_template(func);
    test_function(func);

    test_template(s_func());
    test_function(s_func());
}

test_template(func):

    test_template(func);
00301095  mov         eax,dword ptr [__imp_std::endl (302044h)]  
0030109A  mov         ecx,dword ptr [__imp_std::cout (302068h)]  
003010A0  push        eax  
003010A1  push        offset string "func" (30214Ch)  
003010A6  push        ecx  
003010A7  call        std::operator<<<std::char_traits<char> > (301240h)  
003010AC  add         esp,8  
003010AF  mov         ecx,eax  
003010B1  call        dword ptr [__imp_std::basic_ostream<char,std::char_traits<char> >::operator<< (30204Ch)]  

test_function(func); : (called functions not included)

    test_function(func);
003010B7  mov         edx,offset func (301040h)  
003010BC  test        edx,edx  
003010BE  jne         main+54h (3010C4h)  
003010C0  xor         ecx,ecx  
003010C2  jmp         main+65h (3010D5h)  
003010C4  mov         dword ptr [ebp-24h],offset std::tr1::_Impl_no_alloc0<std::tr1::_Callable_fun<void (__cdecl*const)(void),0>,void>::`vftable' (302188h)  
003010CB  mov         dword ptr [ebp-20h],offset func (301040h)  
003010D2  lea         ecx,[ebp-24h]  
003010D5  mov         dword ptr [ebp-14h],ecx  
003010D8  mov         dword ptr [ebp-4],0  
003010DF  test        ecx,ecx  
003010E1  jne         $LN163 (3010E9h)  
003010E3  call        dword ptr [__imp_std::tr1::_Xfunc (302064h)]  
$LN163:
003010E9  mov         eax,dword ptr [ecx]  
003010EB  mov         edx,dword ptr [eax+4]  
003010EE  call        edx  
003010F0  mov         dword ptr [ebp-4],0FFFFFFFFh  
003010F7  mov         ecx,dword ptr [ebp-14h]  
003010FA  test        ecx,ecx  
003010FC  je          $LN163+28h (301111h)  
003010FE  mov         eax,dword ptr [ecx]  
00301100  mov         eax,dword ptr [eax+0Ch]  
00301103  lea         edx,[ebp-24h]  
00301106  cmp         ecx,edx  
00301108  setne       dl  
0030110B  movzx       edx,dl  
0030110E  push        edx  
0030110F  call        eax  

function 'test_template' is a clear winner. Now the sad part is that you can't do this in a class without overhead because you have to store the function object which isn't really supported so you have to resort to tricks which have overhead.

// class version equivalent to test_template
// This should have been supported but nope
class scope_guard {
    auto f;
public:
    template <typename Functor>
    scope_guard(Functor f_obj) : f(f_obj) { // <- ???
    }
    ~scope_guard() {
        f();
    }

function "test_template" works because you don't have to store the function object

http://pizer.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/scope-guards-revisited-c0x-style/#more-188

Arr where's that vs2011 beta ?!

Was that what you were asking ? You're question is vague, can you rephrase the question ?

I absolutely love c++ but it do have it's flaws like this one which i think is one of those things that have been overlooked.

Somebody from the c++ group should really comment on this.

"oh btw it works for keyboard and mouse too"

"Windows Phone 7" - Oh don't get me started 

Oh look i found the forum. What is my reward ? (see ARM comments below)

Windows 8:
What i've seen i hate. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I)
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/windows7/videoGallery.aspx?cont
Because microsoft is focusing on the mobile platforms and is too cheap to have a separate branch for it they have forced users yet again to pay. This time with mobile bloat that for normal computer users will be awkward to use and have in their face.

All i can say is: wtf, really!

Most if not all normal _real_ computers do not have a molest screen and doing this with a mouse is just extra work ! Stop changing things that work god damn it !
What happened with "a good user experience" bs you regurgitated when ever you opened your mouth ? 

• Is Windows 8 another vista (shorthorn) with a mobile twist ?
• How much will these "features" eat up of my monthly internet bandwidth plan ?
• Will w8 even able to function without an internet connection ?
• I'm guessing these new "features" will increase the minimum system spec too. Kissing hardware manufacturers * again, more under the table deals ? Microsoft should have enough money to not have to resort to shady deals.
• "We wanted to get really fast and fluid to get between your running apps". Uhm? Whats wrong with ATL+TAB or Win+TAB ? This animation crap will only make it slow down you idiots !
• That start screen with bigger icons will become a scroll fetish. Do i even have to mention the performance penalties ? This is the start screen! Doing more is BAD. Haven't you learned anything from vista and w7 ? Like going back to windows xp or dare i say vista, having to wait above 5 minutes for all bloat / ego apps (java "quick start", adobe reader "quick start", etc..) to load before being able to do anything.

What about this ARM thing: "Oh look it runs on ARM cpus! < awaits applause's >" 
They say it like it is hard to port it to ARM.

(Fun game for the very bored: Count how many times microsoft employees say "ARM". The person that says it the most wins the kiss-* forehead stamp)

My comment to this:
Aw! was it hard ? Poor you, want a cookie ? 

Are microsoft programmers really that incompetent that they think its hard to port ?
OR do you just not have enough news / features to show so you make a chicken out of a feather with the ARM port thing ?
OR do you make a big deal out of it so you can ask for even more money for windows 7 ?
Is my soul not enough for you ?

Either way it's disgusting.
If you don't have anything to show then wait until you have something to show !
Is that so bloody hard ?

Microsoft up with it's old tricks again, trying to pull crap like this.

Should i give the EU lawyers a heads up already ?

Microsoft definitely did NOT learn its lesson the first time.

All the things in video #1 are just bloat. To put it short and simple.
"We will continue to improve and increase the performance of windows" so that was yet another lie.
All this crap is for mobile hardware, where is the stuff for the computer user ? 

Well that was video #1. I dare you to release a video #2.

As the less intelligent say:  Bring it "biatch"!

I only tell it based on microsoft's actions. Don't whine to me, i'm just the interpreter !

Nearly every rich editor on Earth behaves and has behaved this way -- creates a paragraph break on ENTER and a line break on SHIFT/ALT-ENTER. I've never seen anyone get confused over this until now.

> Can you send a screenshot of this?
erm ohkey... 0.o
http://i56.tinypic.com/2e5iaon.png

> Who's creating a competitve HTML5 version? We're not. We're using a third-party, javascript version until there is a better (hopefully HTML5 standardized) option.

"The work on HTML5 actually is ___similar____ to IE's approach."
I got that impression from the quote above.


> Good suggestion, I'll put this in as a feature request.

So i can expect this in about 10 - 20 years or more likely never, right ? Marked as "by design" ?
Yes, i'm bitter, blame it in previous experiences with microsoft.

> #1 is by design. It's an option in TinyMCE to have the box grow as you type so that you can see what you're typing without having to scroll the box down

Ok, but it is buggy, hugh text block pasted in will make it scroll way down, so you have to scroll up to see the end of the text block you pasted in.

> If you hit Enter it creates a new paragaph, if you hit Shift+Enter it creates a line break (<br />).

I didn't know about that.
I think it should be flipped, for better user experience.
Make the enter key behave like an enter key again that is what the user expects, breaking your own guide lines again ey? naughty, naughty
Also it would be good to add such info somewhere, my mind reading ability doesn't work at that distance...

> . It would be simple to send someone to /forum/thread#lastreadpost if we didn't have paging but since we do, we'd have to do a query on each thread to see what page the last read post exists on and that would bring down the perf on the forum thread list page.

wow i just have to say it: what a stupid design, plain horrible.

Another Feature request: Preview comment before posting it

Sorry about the reagarged questions and answers, the comment control was extra buggy to day and it sucked the life out of me so i gave up on making it pretty

Oh my, well that explains it. I assumed there was one. I'm actually surprised that there isn't one yet. I apologize.

> HTML5 is trying to standardize rich-text editing but it is still a work in progress. The work on HTML5 actually is similar to IE's approach.

That begs the questions:

1. Aren't microsoft helping with the HTML5 ?

2. Why are you creating a competetive HTML5 version ?  Is it because of another petty feud ?

Seems like this is Blu-ray and HD-DVD all overagain.

It's one thing to not follow the standard and there is another thing to have extra features.

> If you would like to start over, I would like to work with you to solve your problems. This is a long and twisted thread, and I have lost track of exactly what is going wrong for you. If you could bullet list the problems you are having with text editing on this site, I will try and solve them.

I wouldnt say it's long or twisted but okey, here's the list:

• browsers spell checking doesn't work
• reply and quote buttons doesn't work sometimes
• Long comments have a bad scroll bug - might be fixed now, i don't know
• copy and paste is buggy in many ways (i'm using the keyboard shortcuts: ctrl+c, ctrl+v)
•      1. pasting in a long comment makes the whole page scroll down
•      2.  Pasted text get different formatting ( see my previous post for example )
• The comment control doesn't load (http://i54.tinypic.com/fatny8.png)
• Comments lose formatting (even when the toolbar is visible)
• Breaking up a quote doesn't work (using *snip*) Make it easier to split up quotes
• Lines are to far apart from each other (http://i54.tinypic.com/2zqxa1h.png)
• Pressing submit button takes you back to the first post in the thread

Okey i think thats all, i might have forgotten some.

As i have said before, I am willing to help you track down the problem by testing, etc.. 

@Duncanma:

> at what point did we ever suggest we only test in IE?

Reading comments of other affected users and your responses.

It also do help to have some healthy mistrust of microsoft.

(Microsoft doing the right thing is like a politician telling the truth, it just doesn't happen that often and only after their caught..)



But mostly because i have noticed many times that many microsoft sites doesn't function well if you don't use IE.



> We did have to make some changes to our TinyMCE implementation to make it work correctly in IE9, but those changes are not related to the issues you are seeing.

Since you brought it up,

Did TinyMCE not do the right thing or did IE not follow the standards yet again and changing TinyMCE was easier then fixing the problem with IE ? ( Similar thing have happened before, many times )



Btw a quote button might be good to have. (Select text and press the quote button )

So what about my offer to help you fix it ? By testing etc..

@Geoffreyk:
That's interesting but strange that the browser doesn't notify the user of these issues..

Both dns and 502 errors are usually reported.

> It must always be remembered that there are many machines outside of the control of both the server and the client. Any one of these may fail at any time.

Blaming it on the other guy is not cool at all, it's not professional either.
Yes i know it can happen, stuff breaks but that it breaks this often well it basically doesn't happen.

> I can assure you that we are not doing "some fancy nonstandard stuff that only works in IE".
I hear you but it would take a lot more for me to trust what you are saying..

Side note: Have you ever tried to download something that requires "validation" that only works in IE ?

As if IE would be any better that any other browser, it's not even funny how wrong that is.

If anything it's the other way around, IE is one of the worst broswers, with all the bugs, etx..

> We take many steps to reduce script erros on pages and provide the best possible end-user experience when failures do happen.
Obviously your steps are flawed.
As any dev will tell you: Tests != users

PS: I'm not trying to be mean i just don't like beating around the bush.

Mar 02, 2011 at 12:04 AM, Cara9 wrote

*snip*

Forgot about this part. The submit button refuses to work? I haven't heard of this happening... we're not doing any funny business with the submit button besides validation.. you're not getting any error messages when this happens?

*snip*

No errors

*snip*

Any consistencies you can mention when it happens? Always in Firefox and not IE?

*snip*

I have not tested it in firefox or IE yet.

I don't know how to replicate it. It seem to happen at random and not often.

*snip*

 

Broken spell checker - We don't have a spell checker on the control that I know of so it must be the Firefox spell checker you're referring to? In what way is it broken?

*snip*

It's chrome's internal spell checker i'm talking about, chrome (SWare Iron) is my primary browser.

I usually only use firefox for sites with nasty flash ads and IE only when microsoft forces me 

*snip*

 

Broken reply link - You click, it does nothing?

*snip*

When clicked, it scrolls down one page and then nothing.

(The reply text isn't added to the text control)

*snip*

That functionality is done with javascript so maybe it's another case of the javascript not loading properly especially if it's an intermittent problem. Sounds like it's often enough to make you notice though.

"javascript not loading properly"

Perhaps i don't know.

But i'm cuite curious of how javascript can't be loaded properly. Are you doing some fancy nonstandard stuff that only works in IE ?

If not then i can guess it's because your doing something that needs to be done / triggered at a specific moment for it to work, which is bad practice and bad programming. All browsers doesn't do the same thing in the same order with the same timings etc...

I am wondering and a bit annoyed, do i have to remind you microsoft devs that everyone doesn't use IE ?

Most people switch as soon as they learn that there are better browsers out there...

Only testing your code with IE is just wrong in so many ways...

Ok time to stop before i get into preaching mode...

I would be happy to help beta testing if that would speed up the fixes, the bugs i'm having are accuring all the time.

WinDBG tutorial video series from beginner to advanced

The STL series are very informative ( i wish there was more series like this on c9, c++0x goodness mmm )

So i thought i'd give you a suggestion.

WinDBG have a steep learning curve so a video series might ease the curveand get more people into using it.

The series should be about how to and how not to use it, why it was designed the way it was (windbg history), debugging 32 bit programs on a 64 bit machine, show what windbg can do and can not do, future plans for windbg.... etc..

( please no managed C# sales pitches, c9 got more then enough of them already  )

It should be about debugging not force feeding of sales pitches.

So what do you think ? 

So thank goodness for pirates ( someone need to keep companies in place, pirating is just another form of competition, there's a new view point for you better license agreement == less pirating )

Wouldn't surprise me if a future license agreement would require you to give the companies ownership of your soul... 

first half of the text misssing ( scrolled to the right, cannot scroll to the left as the D's tries to demonstrate)
http://i56.tinypic.com/2vim25l.png

missing toolbar / comment control totally broken == Lost text formatting:

http://i52.tinypic.com/fe3zno.png

There's also a bug where the submit button refuses to work
Firefox also have the "missing toolbar", "broken spell checker", "broken reply link", etc... bugs as chrome.

@CaraCara9 "We've been in contact with TinyMCE"
Not to be mean but i have to mention that it have been weeks (months?)
So is this just PR talk, saying you've been in contact with x when in fact you have not ?
I mean reporting bugs doesn't take weeks just an hour per bug and getting in contact with a dev, perhaps 2 days to a week.

So you can understand my skepticism.
I'm a dev myself and it just doesn't take this long.
( As long as you make it clear that corporate / political etc. pissing matches are not tolerated -.- oh the crap some people think they can pull )

There's also an annoying "feature" in Chrome where it expands the height of the box in strange ways.

Actually i like that feature since many website use fixed micro-sized edit boxes that you can barely type a sentence in without scrolling

If you could let us know what other browsers (and version) it is being buggy in, that would help.

Internet Explorer 8

SRWare Icon 9.0.600.2 (74100) http://www.srware.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2190 ( i'm using the portable version, I'd like to see that feature in IE9  )

Firefox latest official version 3.6.1.3

53 minutes ago, Dexter wrote

Well, it seems to me that the only purpose of m_onLeaveScope_empty is to support the move constructor. You could leave the old m_onLeaveScope alone and add a null check in the scoped destructor so the old m_onLeaveScope doesn't get called.

Yes, I've thought of that, it would work for the pointer version, but not for the non pointer version.

We can't really test for m_obj != 0 since 0 might be a totally valid value.

The possible solution would be to add a bool that gets set to true (is_empty = true) when the data is moved.

This, i'm guessing, would also be faster then calling an empty function.

But i'm not sure which way to go. I want it to be correct and as performance as possible so i'm still wondering if there is some kind of  template magic to sole this.

But i'm leaning to the bool solution or perhaps i should use std::function...

Am i overthinking it ?

http://tinymce.moxiecode.com/tryit/full.php

have the same or similar scroll bug

It's very buggy.

It seems to only and barely work in internet explorer.

It sometimes shows up and work in other browsers.

The browsers spell checking doesn't even work in it.

Long comments have a bad scroll bug, when you click on a place to edit it scrolls up to the beginning of the comment control.

And due to this scroll bug you can't even click the submit button because when you try  to click the button it scrolls up.

I use SRware Iron (Chrome version) and i would very much like this to get fixed.

Why is it taking so much time to fix it ?

Have you even started to fix it ?

Do you not care about users that use other (better) browsers ?

Seems like you are not following the browser standards again, that is why it only works in internet explorer...

I knew i forgot to mention something, it was 3 am when i wrote that, sorry about that.

I did get that error too, which made me confused and got me thinking i've forgot some c++ rule again.

> Again, you're mixing up things that look like functions but they have different types.

Yes, can you explain what i'm missing, please ?

How would i make it work or is that not a possibility without std::function ?