I love enterprise mobile stuff.  My whole last project was in that.  Unfortunately I have yet to see an "Enterprise" device that can run Windows 8 or Windows RT.

Most of them still run Windows Mobile.

The only mobile devices for Windows 8 and Windows RT are for consumer oriented stuff (like MS Surface).  Sure they run office and can download data for dashboard apps.  (Great for Executives, but not for rank and file workers who need to use it to accomplish a job.)

As for what I am looking for when I come to Channel 9, well, my current project uses OData, WCF and WPF. 

But, I guess I am just hoping to find presentations on something I don't know that could possibly be useful in my job.

Maybe something on how to use Lightswitch HTML for business apps.  (I know that it does not seem to have a data-grid, and that makes it hard to use for many enterprise scenarios.  Still I can see some business uses for it even without the data-grid.)

OData has some newer stuff out that would be great to see a presentation on.  (Instance annotations think they are called.)  I would love see a presentation on what they are for or how they are used.

Basically I would love to see anything that can be used by enterprise developers.  (A "Classic Enterprise" company (to me) is one who recently got everyone upgraded to Windows 7 and whose System Admins laugh at you when you mention Windows 8 (there are a lot of us out there).

But heck, I would like to even see more about how to do enterprise stuff on Windows 8.  I watched "The Edge" show about it and was left wanting details and explanations.  (Details on how you can do it and Explanations on why MS thinks we should pay to install apps (sideload) when it was free for every version prior (both mobile and desktop).

1 hour ago, Bas wrote

When I look at the videos posted in the last two days, I see:

• Six videos about Lync

From what I understand Lync is a tool my sys admins would setup...  Not really something for developers (except to use).  It would be akin to seeing something about MS Word or Powerpoint.  (Maybe these sessions are about how to dev for Lync?)

• Five about Azure (five videos in two days is hardly "a token item now and again")

True.  And while I think Azure is cool, I just can't get my company to go for it.  Still, I like reading and seeing stuff on it.  But there has been quite a bit about it lately.  It seems to encompass most of the presentations that are "enterprise" related.

• Two about TechEd

Alas, my boss says that the current tech conferences are not worth the money.  According to him they focus too much on "Metro Stuff" and do not really offer much that helps us offer better solutions to our users.

This may be a "just me" thing.  But I doubt it.  I am betting a lot of internal software shops will be skipping the tech conferences this year (unless they are somehow going "metro")

• One about Kinect

Kinect is very cool.  I don't see much use for it in an office scenario, but still, very cool.

• One about Windows Phone development

I have a Windows Phone 8 and love it.  However, using it has made me realize even more than before that it is a "Consumer Device".  I have a hard time seeing it used in a custom enterprise scenario.

• One about the .NET Micro Framework

I did not see this one.  Sounds cool though.  (And could be useful for the enterprise developer.)

• One about a WP game

Clearly not for the enterprise developer.

• One about hosting a private cloud.

I hope my system admins see this one (though they will not). 

• One about Windows Store apps.

We can't put our stuff in the Windows Store.

Sounds like a good mix between consumer-targeted and enterprise-targeted stuff to me.

Maybe my definition of "Enterprise Developer" is too focused on me.  If so, that is fine.   There are lots of places that have lots of content about stuff that I can use.  I just always like to get some of it from Microsoft.

In the past there has been stuff about things like Pex and Moles, Code Contracts, Debugger Canvas, Intellitrace, etc.  Stuff that most any .NET Developer could use. 

This list just doesn't seem as useful.

It is not consumer software.  There are no "games" to be written.  I use the Microsoft stack to write software to solve our business needs.

I love my job.  It provides me with an Ultimate MSDN Subscription, which has always allowed me to stay on top of the latest and greatest stuff that comes out.

But lately when I go to Channel 9 to see what I can learn I see titles like this:

• Introduction to building games with Unity
• Andrew Garrison from Jundroo- Developing mobile games
• Scott Davis talks about developing QONQR for Windows 8 and Windows Phone
• Windows Store Weekly: Northern Tale, Museums of the World, Bejeweled LIVE, Fotor Color Splash Studio, WonderWall

So much around games and how to get them into the app store.  The rest is around how to make other "Windows Store" apps.

Sure there is a token item now and again about Azure (which we may use someday).

But most of it seems decidedly targeted away from the "business" type of developer (as I described above).

I know the latest push of Microsoft products has been in an attempt to win some of the "Consumer Pie" that is currently owned by Apple and Google.  But it would be nice to see Channel 9 do a presentation or two about something related to the enterprise developer (besides Azure).

1 minute ago, kettch wrote

@Vaccano: I think there's a balance to be struck here. In some cases it's good if Microsoft realizes "Hey, we screwed up, there's a better way to do this. Hold on while we build it." The key is communicating those kinds of issues early and often.

I agree.  Notice that I did not say "Was Killed".  I said "Was Killed with no warning".  You can't go from pushing hype one month to killing if off the next. 

If something is wrong, let us know so we don't go base our next enterprise offering on it, like I did with Linq to SQL and Smart Device Projects.  One month Linq to SQL is the golden child and can do no wrong.  So we do a month of development using it.

The next month we are told that there is something called Entity Framework about to release that will replace it.

That leads to anger, hate and general darksidedness.  (Plus rewrite plans using different techs.)

By open sourcing it they have effectively committed to allowing this tech to endure until no one wants to use it.

6 hours ago, Sven Groot wrote

The problem isn't choice, the problem is apparent lack of commitment.

This is it exactly.  I no longer trust MS hype. 

The time was that every time a new MS Tech came out I was anxious to try it.  Even see how I could use it in my workplace applications.  I felt confident that these techs were the way of the future and that I could not go wrong using them (as they had MS pushing them so hard).

Then Smart Devices were killed off with no warning.

Then Linq To SQL was killed off with no warning.

Then Silverlight was killed off with no warning.

Then WPF started getting token updates only.

Then XNA was killed with no warning...

Then I realized that trusting MS hype on new techs was a great way to WAIST MY TIME.

If Microsoft wants developers to try to use the new stuff they create we need some commitment. 

And I am not talking about "End of Life" commitments.  That is fine for letting me know when I need to get legacy apps off of a tech.

We need commitment of how long the new tech is going to be getting updates and new features.  There is nothing more frustrating than running into a framework bug/missing feature in a Smart Device project.  Because you know you you have no hope of getting an update from Microsoft.

Microsoft, if you want us to use your new toys and make apps for your app store then we need real commitment, not hype!

Microsoft recently announced with some fanfare that they got "Temple Run" on Windows Phone 8. Temple Run is a fairly popular, but also old game.

At the same time iOS got a brand new version of Temple Run based on the OZ movie. Despite the fanfare that MS put on the Temple Run release, this makes it glaringly obvious that big name game and app developers are not taking Windows Phone 8 seriously.

Windows Phone 8 has too small of a user base to get these new games to target it for initial development. And the work to port from an OpenGL based system to a Direct X system is a barrier that is not worth it for many game developers (considering the small user base). So Windows Phone 8 does not get the apps it needs to attract more users.

The only way the Windows Phone 8 user base is going to grow is to get more apps. MS needs to own up that big name app developers are not focusing on Windows Phone 8 because the lower user base does not make it worth porting to the platform.

The only way (that I can see) for Windows Phone 8 to get more apps is to lower the barrier for porting big name apps low enough that it is worth porting even considering the low user base. The best way I can see to accomplish this is making an OpenGL engine for Windows Phone 8. (Though there may be other ways to solve this issue.)

While I strongly question the strategic decisions recently made by MS, they have shown a willingness to neglect the traditional desktop user in favor of the mobile (phone/tablet) user. Which might be why Direct X may not get as much innovation as it used to (while they focus on trying to get their mobile offerings more attractive to big name app developers).

If they pulled all of their products out of the EU countries the EU would have to cave in.  I know there are other OS/Office/Server options out there, but MS by far holds the majority.

If MS bailed on the countries that wanted to enforce the EU fine, I think the EU would have to cave in before too long.

I admit my chances would be low anyway.  But once budget is locked in, there is little that can be done even if I could convince my boss that it would add value to the company.

As a side note, why is using MMS a "catch".  It all costs the same right?

Windows Phone 8 sends group text messages great.  (Most phones can).

But it fails on group texting after that.  The problem here is that Windows Phone reads responses to group messages as a direct message from that person to you.

It allows evil code like this:

SomeObject.SomeProperty := 'Value1';
SomeOtherObject.SomeProperty := 'Value2';
with SomeObject, SomeOtherObject do 
begin
    SomeProperty := 'Who Knows which one is being set!';
    // 50+ lines of code using the Objects without needing the actual object.
end

You can code your game in XNA and then when it is done, port it to MonoGame.  (MonoGame is a cross platform implementation of XNA, so it ports easy.)

MonoGame supports a lot of platforms.  One of these platforms is Windows Phone 8.  So you can use MonoGame to access the Windows Phone 8 features you are looking for.

But I went to learn how I can accomplish this and was very disappointed.  These seem to be the options for 2D game development:

• DirectX Direct3D
  • Direct2D is not supported on Windows Phone 8.  So you can only do Direct3D on one plane.  DirectX Direct3D is hard.  Not just kind of hard.  Real real hard.  I went through the first 5 tutorials on DirectXTutorial.com and after a lot of work I was able to draw a single triangle.  It is hard and complex to do simple things.  Not really hobby development level.
• XNA
  • XNA seems to be on its way out.  It is allowed for legacy support.  But you cannot make a WinRT app nor target Windows Phone 8 with XNA.  If you know it, then I would say use it.  But it is hard to want to spend time learning the ins-and-outs of an API that has "legacy" support only.  (Kind of like spending the next 6 months digging into WinForms.  You can use it, but is it really the best use of your time to add this skill set to your abilities.)
  • XNA seems like a great API.  I am shocked that MS has put it in "Legacy" mode (but then I felt the same about WPF, Silverlight, Linq2SQL and the Compact Framework).  It seems to have a strong following, including something called Monogame, that lets it work on many platforms.  Why MS wanted to kill off all this great stuff is beyond me.
• XAML + C#
  • Xaml + C# is nice and easy to do.  But I worry there will performance issues if I code up a game using this.
• DirectX Toolkit
  • The DirectX Toolkit on Codeplex seems to be what the Windows Phone team wants you to use.  But it is a temporary API based on XNA's api.  Just like XNA, I am hesitant to spend a lot of my time digging into an API that is a band aid on missing Direct2D support.

I look at these options and they all have significant drawbacks.  Since the VAST MAJORITY of games out there are 2D I have to wonder what the Windows Phone team was thinking.

Why did they shortchange Windows Phone 8 2D games so hard?  As a hobby game developer I have to choose between learning a obsolete (or soon to be obsolete) framework or learning a really hard 3D framework just so I can do 2D programming.

Is it just me or has the Windows Phone team messed up big here?

The biggest drawback I hear for Windows Phone 8 is that it does not have enough apps compared to Android and IOS.  Making it hard on hobby developers is not likely to fix that...

I think the only way out of this (at this point) is to promise full support for XNA in the future...

It has frozen 5 times in about 5 hours of use.  I have to soft reset it each time.  I have installed very few apps, and each time it freezes I am doing something different.

I had hoped to develop a Windows Phone 8 game and use my phone as a test platform.

But If it is so unstable then I can't keep this as my actual phone.

I am deciding between taking it back for a refund or asking for a new one (maybe it is just my phone).  But looking online I have seen that this is not an isolated problem.

So, I thought I would ask if there are any success stories out there?  Anyone have a Windows Phone 8 (preferably a Lumia 920) that is working well?  If so do you really "use it" or are you just doing internet searches, email and phone calls?

By the way, when I refer to the Dead or Live status of WPF I am referring to the expansion and improvement of the product.  Not its useability. 

WinForms is still very useful, but it will not be improved anymore.  Hence I am calling it Dead.

It is looking like WPF is less sleeping and has actually died. (Or is really breathing shallow

As for the conference question, I was not assuming.  I was wondering.  I was guessing that may be a reason that it did not contain any WPF related topics.  It looks like that is not the case. 

Now I don't follow conferences that close, but I know some are themed (ie "Web").  Is Build a "Web" conference?

Or is WPF just that dead to new feature development that there are no courses in that 4 day conference that touch on it enough to even warrant adding a tag for it?

Maybe I should not be surprised after so many things have been killed off.  I know Microsoft can be brutal to "out of favor" stuff.

Maybe there is nothing new in WPF so there is nothing more to train on?

Neither one seems to realize that our country owes more than it's entire net worth and that we need to stop borrowing money now.

I have lots of things, really really good things, that I would like to do with money (for myself and others).  But I don't do them because I cannot afford them.

Our leaders need to learn the same lesson.

I said that the prices are "quite reasonable".  And that "TFS and Visual Studio are both quite cheap for the value they give".

The only thing I said was too expensive was the MSDN Ultimate Subscription.  At $13,299 per year (list price) it is fairly expensive.

But even that gives a lot of value.  (I know, I have an Ultimate Subscription.)

I think VS Tools have a great price range.  From very reasonable with many features to fairly expensive with tons of features.

One of us is not understanding the other... If it is me, let me know....

AndyC Wrote: That it's now also cheaper than the old upgrade cost I'm going to chalk up as a secondary victory for those of us who've long complained at Microsoft for exploitative pricing practices in the past.

I think Microsoft has adjusted the price of their development products to be quite reasonable (excluding the MSDN Ultimate Subscription). 

TFS and Visual Studio are both quite cheap for the value they give.  (However, I don't personally buy them.  My company does.  My perspective may be different if I had to shell out my own cash for them.)

But the express versions are fantastic for a free product.  (now that there is a desktop version)

Now if we could just get the product teams to listen to feedback, Visual Studio would be reasonably priced and awesome too!

Yes, we have eliminated the upgrade edition of Visual Studio Professional from our Visual Studio 2012 offerings in order to simplify the product line.  We lowered the estimated retail price for Visual Studio Professional from $799 to $499 to make sure this wouldn't have an impact on customers who have historically purchased the upgrade (which was priced at $549). And of course if you need any platforms for your development projects, the best option is to buy an MSDN subscription which provides you with new versions of Visual Studio and all the included Microsoft platforms as these are released.