Discussions

1 hour ago, cbae wrote

@exoteric: @Charles:

You guys need to go see your doctors and get yourselves an Rx.

Charles why can't I ban people for bad puns? This was painful.

21 minutes ago, Bas wrote

Charging for a service pack would be ridiculous.

Oh I dunno, Apple get away with it

14 minutes ago, wtfhIs​Microsoft​Doing wrote

@blowdart:

*snip*

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=778890205865

Yes, the "push karma".

*snip*

Automated blackbox testing only goes so far. The reason is that with new code, those tests may not get updated and may pass on old functionality but fail the new code.

My point was that this is very different from the dev-branch/merge/CI cycle run by most comparable companies with test/staging/prod.

The whole partial roll out to a select # of nodes with Chef to sample how the public absorbs the changes is vastly different as well.

So I'm sorry if I made it sound like Mark Zuckerberg was sitting alone behind his keyboard committing stuff to the SVN trunk to roll them out in the weekly release by himself. But I think that's obviously not what I meant.

Fair enough. I'd still disagree, there is a dev branch, it just gets pushed public faster than, say, msdn.microsoft.com. Of course web sites are rather different to frameworks, or Windows, but even with frameworks you'll find the likes of signalr, or owin/katana pushed faster than you would expect. The dev branches of those are public. However before release there is a quality bar to pass, in terms of the SDL, backwards compatibility and so on. I do sometimes wonder if we abandoned backwards compatibility how much faster we could be in delivering. But then we're not releasing Android

1 hour ago, wtfhIs​Microsoft​Doing wrote

*snip*

Yes, exactly. Facebook only has one branch, trunk  and it's SVN. Developers version on their own machines with Mercurial, git or whatever then commit directly to trunk. That gets pushed out to staging then production with Chef.

Again not exactly. It goes for internal use, then to some limited public servers (where they test performance etc.), then eventually to the world at large. Of course there's a metric f*ck tonne of unit and automated tests too. It is not, as I read your summary, a check-in, don't test, go live as soon as you check-in. Nor does everyone get to check into the source tree. There are merge requests which Chuck Rossi (or whoever does it now) evaluates and can reject - devs that break things get an internal "thumbs down", and that's taken into account in merge requests.

1 hour ago, wtfhIs​Microsoft​Doing wrote

Conversely a company like Facebook does not have dev branches or unit testing that you know of. The developers there are all good enough to commit directly to the main SVN trunk with no other review, and Chef pushes their changes public to all the node clusters.

Not exactly. All facebook employees run the latest build, and it gets tested that way before it gets pushed to live.

9 hours ago, fanbaby wrote

Where are Microsoft employees on this issue?

You expect employees to comment on legal matters? You need to manage your expectations better.

13 hours ago, Bass wrote

You'd need a heck a lot more then baseline POSIX to accomplish that.

Indeed. Heck the moans about POSIX that I've seen usually end up being because the Windows thread model isn't what they expected and change is bad.

Let's stop with the personal attacks, otherwise I'll lock the thread.

24 minutes ago, evildictait​or wrote

Microsoft might be considering spending all of the money they should be spending on the Desktop on building a cupcake-catapult to fling and enormous cupcake into the sea.

Silly boy. Everyone knows we fire cup cakes into Lake Washington. They're being floated up now to make the new 520 bridge.

36 minutes ago, wastingtime​withforums wrote

*snip*

The pricing is debatable.

I'm not talking the price to the consumer, I'm talking the price for each patch to Microsoft.