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Discussions

dahat dahat inanity makes my head hurt
  • It's called...

    Isn't it possible that the powers that be just like base 9 counting?

  • Can a Surface Pro 3 (or any Windows 8 tablet) replace your laptop?

    @cbae: It's bad enough that you keep refusing to acknowledge or understand the points being raised by others here... it's quite another when you outright lie in order to defend your stance.

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    Wrong about what? I speculated the reason for the gap. Do you not see the "???".

    Where oh where is the "???" in this thread? Only in two spots actually... in your last post and in my quote of it.

    Want more lies? You have continually said that that there is all of this 'wasted space' and that gap is 'useless':

    , cbae wrote

    Look at all the wasted space above the top row of keys:

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    The gap in and of itself is useless.

    It has been explained why this gap exists. You've ignored it. Then you discover why the gap exists... but it's seeming irrelevant.

    By people experiencing the tears.

    Again you fail to pay attention. The issue was experienced by a small % of people who were using the product as designed (my wife included). The problem has clearly been resolved as it's not an ongoing thing.

    You're getting sidetracked, dude. Focus on the Type Cover 3. As I said before, regardless of the reason for the gap in the Type Cover 2, it doesn't pertain to the Type Cover 3.

    I'm getting sidetracked? You are the one highlighting the internals of the Type Cover 2 to understand why the gap is important... then go off on your tangent again because the facts are deemed unimportant with regards to the Type Cover 3.

    Wait no... you're right, that's not getting sidetracked... that's called running straight off the end of the tracks because you ignored every warning sign along the way.

    I'm done arguing with someone over this who repeatedly ignored the explanations from me and others and who has failed to do even basic research or reasoning as to if this is actually a problem with tactile time on the device.

  • Can a Surface Pro 3 (or any Windows 8 tablet) replace your laptop?

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    WTF are you talking about?

    Hit a nerve have we?

    When did I say ICs were placed in that space?

    Explicitly you didn't, however in an image above you highlighted a specific area saying "Plenty of space for wiring if that is indeed the reason for the extra margin on the Type Cover 2".

    Anyone with a basic understanding of keyboards knows that wiring would not make sense to move to such an area without moving the associated ICs along with.

    I'm sorry for assuming you had such a basic understanding.

    My whole point is that the extra space for whatever reason was required in the Type Cover 2 would already be accommodated in the Type Cover 3 even if the keys were pushed up further.

    Again you demonstrate that you are not paying attention.

    If you were, you would come to realize that that pushing those keys more to the top would mean moving them (and the fingers which push them) very close to the screen... resulting in accidental input on the touch display.

    You try paying attention next time.

    My point for point refutation of virtually every word you have said seems to suggest that I am... odd how you keep failing to recognize that.

  • Can a Surface Pro 3 (or any Windows 8 tablet) replace your laptop?

    , cbae wrote

    The keyboard actually uses a flat flex cable.

     

    So the only purpose of the gap in the Type Cover 2 seems to be to allow more flexibility when the keyboard is flipped back underneath.

    I think that is about as close as we are going to get to you admitting that you were wrong.

    Of course, doing so was ill-advised as this caused the seam to come apart.

    Ill-advised? Says who? Isn't that what it was designed to do (fold back that is)?

    With regards to the seam coming apart, you mean like this?

    How many cases of that have you heard about since late 2012/early 2013?

    What about on the Type Cover 2? Or the Touch Covers?

    I'm just going to guess... isn't it possible that given it was happening only to a small number of covers, that there might have been a manufacturing issue with some of them... an issue that has since been resolved? Maybe?

  • Can a Surface Pro 3 (or any Windows 8 tablet) replace your laptop?

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    Are you saying you know why there's a gap there? If so, do tell. Otherwise, I don't give a rat's * what you've torn apart before.

    You really should try to pay attention and consider points made towards your beefs as it's been explained here several times, and by people who are not me:

    , blowdart wrote

    *snip*

    And it's not actually wasted too much, the top section "folds" up to give an angle and extra stability.

    , bondsbw wrote

    *snip*

    is as large or larger than the Type Cover for Surface Pro 3 (when you fold it as designed):

    Oh my God! All that wasted space where you want to put ICs for no reason!

  • Can a Surface Pro 3 (or any Windows 8 tablet) replace your laptop?

    @cbae: You are clearly unaware of what the "Plenty of space for wiring if that indeed is the reason for the extra margin on the Type Cover 2" section you point to is used for.

    Even if you did know what it was used for, I doubt your electrical/mechanical engineering skills are so l33t that moving the IC components from the keyboard itself to that area would make any difference.

    Have you even torn apart one of these devices to learn what is inside?

    I have, I even learned a few things about their internal workings... but that remains wholly separate from your ranting here.

  • Can a Surface Pro 3 (or any Windows 8 tablet) replace your laptop?

    , cbae wrote

    No. Do I need to? I can tell by the specs of the two keyboards. The Type Cover 2 is 1" shorter than the Type Cover 3. About half of the difference in the picture that I linked in is taken up by the gap.

    It'd help if you had some actual experience so you'd have some understanding of what you are talking about.

    Did I say there was some kind of ergonomic problem with the gap itself?

    Did I say that you did?

    The problem is that the space could have been used to make the touchpad larger and more useful.

    At what cost? You still refuse to acknowledge even the possibility that the gap has use.

    The gap in and of itself is useless.

    You keep saying that and yet it doesn't make it any more true now than when you first started.

    How is it useful?

    As has been stated, the Type Cover 3 is intended to be snapped up into an angled position... which puts very little clearance between the bottom of the touch screen and the keyboard. Why do you want space there? Lets say you are working on a project in Visual Studio and go to hit F5 to run the app... do you push the key like this:

    Or like this:

    I find the second option far more comfortable and easy to do.

    Are you really that clumsy that you couldn't press the function keys without grazing the function keys?

    Isn't it a little early in the day to be drinking? That statement made no sense. The issue is with hitting the top row of keys without touching the screen.

    The function keys on the Type Cover 3 are already quite large compared to function keys on most compact keyboards.

    And? The function keys on the Surface keyboards have always had the F functionality as secondary compared to brightness, mute, play/pause, search, share/etc.

    The function keys on the Microsoft Wedge Keyboard are about 50% of height of the other keys. On the Type Cover 3, the function keys are 2/3rd the height of the regular keys.

    And on some laptop keyboards, the function keys are the same size as the rest of the keys *gasp*!

    Add at least 1/4" for the raised area around the keys like on the Type Cover 2 (which presumably contains the keyboard innards) and another 1/4" for the crease between the raised area above the keys and the raised area containing the magnets, and there's still plenty of space between the top row of keys and the surface of the display.

    Since when did you become a hardware & mechanical engineer? I know a few folks on the Surface team if you are looking for a job.

    If you're that klutzy, you can press the bottom half the function keys. As I said, they're quite ample in size compared to the function keys on compact keyboards.

    But if you make the keys smaller even hitting the bottom half of the key is harder.

     

    First, it wouldn't be right up against the display.

    The keyboard fold is right about where the display ends. How much of the clearance room on the keyboard size do you want to take?

    Second, the SP3 isn't a laptop.

    It is however the tablet that can replace your laptop... and for me it has. I use it plenty on my lap while banging out code at home or on a table top in a meeting at work.

    The gap between the keyboard and the display on laptops is where speakers are placed The last time I checked, the Type Cover 3 didn't have any built-in speakers. Most laptops also have huge frames around the display. Since the body of the laptop needs to be the same size as the lid, there's plenty of footprint for the keyboard and touchpad. It would look rather silly pushing it up to the display for no reason. So the keyboard is usually pushed back and the space is used for speakers.

    In some systems the speakers may be there, in others there may be a power button ... in others that gap remains. Take the current MacBook Air:

    I don't see any speakers up there... and yet the gap remains.

    The reviewers that trash the SP3 have no need for the pen, and they apparently spend all day working on their laps with no mouse as well.

    And what exactly is the problem? According to you they are able to use it all day as well. Re the pen, it all depends on ones use. For me the pen is fantastic when debugging code while using the device as a tablet.

    Panos Panay made it a point to try impressing these types of reviewers. Personally, I wouldn't give a rat's * if the Type Cover came without a touchpad. I would use a mouse even if the Type Cover came with a magical touchpad that farted pixie dust. But I'm not the one the Surface team was trying to impress with this design.

    Yet you are the one here doing all of this griping about a device you apparently have never used.

  • Can a Surface Pro 3 (or any Windows 8 tablet) replace your laptop?

    , cbae wrote

    *snip*

    There's a 1/2" to 5/8" gap between the top of the keys and the fold.

    And? Have you measured the gap between the bottom of the screen and the keyboard?

    Compare the raised area around the keys on the Type Cover 2 and the keys on the Type Cover for Surface Pro 3. Zoom in and look how unnecessarily thick it is above the top row of keys on the latter.

    You keep calling it unnecessarily thick... have you spent any time with a SP3? I'm typing this right now on one on my lap (in between debugging sessions of something in VS) and have no problem with the thickness of the keys or the gap... in fact I prefer the gap.

    If the SP3 Type Cover had been designed using a similar margin above the top row of keys as well as below the touchpad, look how much larger the touchpad could have been.

    Or they could have made all of the keys a little smaller... or they could have had less of a gap around the touch pad itself... plenty of things could have been done to make the touchpad bigger... why do you keep focusing on one that really is useful?

    How many laptops do you use where the top row of keys (not power/volume but F keys) is right up against the display/hinge? I've never owned one of them so clearly there is a reason for some gap.

    That increase in size could have been the difference between reviewers calling the touchpad as crappy as that of any other Windows laptop out on the market and calling it nearly as good as the one on the MBA.

    Not being on the Surface team and not knowing what into the existing trackpad or the trade offs made I couldn't say... but then neither can/should you I think as you don't seem to be speaking from any experience/understanding of the product.

    While I heard complaints about previous trackpads, I've not had as many about #3... granted, I use the pen about as often as I do the mouse.

    Other than for aesthetic reasons, I can't see there being any reason not to have utilized that extra height for a larger touchpad. There obviously weren't any technical limitations, as the Type Cover 2 is proof that this design could have been possible. In all honesty, it's really not that much more visually appealing having the same size top and bottom margins as the left and right margins.

    Again, rubbish... but I'm not inclined to repeat myself on this as I've said it all above.

  • Can a Surface Pro 3 (or any Windows 8 tablet) replace your laptop?

    , cbae wrote

    Look at all the wasted space above the top row of keys:

    I'd rather have that 'wasted space' than risk hitting the touch screen every time I go for a key on the function keys row.

  • 5 million Gmail passwords leaked

    , cbae wrote

    There's really little that can be done with a hacked email account alone.

    On the contrary, ones inbox is a very rich place to mine for data and exploit... if one has access.

    Obligatory XKCD: