Discussions

I've updated a htc trophy. Needed to do it twice for some reason.

First time it was done within 5 minutes, second time it took like 30 minutes to an hour.

Don't forget to register your device again as dev device, that's not done automaticly.

@magicalclick: They only send out an invitation to WP7 devs that are registered at the WP7 app hub and paid that $99. If you click the link in that mail, it takes you to the downloads.

http://create.msdn.com/en-US/news/Mango_Beta

Takes ages to install, i've you can't wait like me

 We are talking about the new Windows 8 programming model. Any app/application that follows any other model is considered legacy if you go by what MS told us last week. That is a huge implication.

I think we are almost on the same level, but we both look differently at the message Microsoft presented with that youtube video. To me, they didn't tell at all that WPF or Silverlight would become legacy. You could still run those applications and I assume that during the development of Windows 8 this experience within windows 8 will improve. I think xaml based development will be intergated just as well as html5/js, but just isn't today.

I believe the form factor and usage of a pc is moving away for the desktop pc. More and more end users get a laptop, slate, tablet or any more mobile device. These devices are always connected and less powerfull than a fresh desktop pc. What Microsoft does with this step is allowing those users to use their apps. So that there marketplace of availible apps gets bigger (more html devs than silverlight devs and easier porting of apps). These apps are the apps they use to (if I look around me): facebook, twitter, whatsapp, email, watch video, manage agenda, photo browsing, weather info, browse web, etc. When looking at one of those future videos, where everything is a display, i mainly see usage of communication and information gathering, which are the apps that come back in the list of apps above.

I think, while it is a different form factor, that with those more mobile 'always connected/ always on' devices, the touch friendly interface, and a large marketplace of apps this becomes real and is what they presented in the Windows 8 video. And most of those apps can be build using html5/js. I don't know where a device like the xbox fits in here, because the tv feels to big to me, I see it more as a device to watch media on and play games on or call with family, like you do with skype. Maby for users of the current teletext http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext, this feels different.

Next to that usage, some might still have a desktop pc, to run what you might sooner call 'real' applications. Like the one you linked to, advanced photo editing, visual studio, video editing, 3dsmax, that sort of applications. Those don't work that well on a lower powered device and in some case don't work for touch. But they are in no way going away, and building them as html apps is indeed insane.

I still don't see why Windows 8 apps need to run on iBaubles or Android. Why? Can you explain it?

Because it aren't Windows 8 apps. It are apps.

Second, where did people get the idea that every application can be shoved into a browser? Does this application make sense in a browser? Apparently we now need to funnel every single user experience through a browser as web app that by definition has to take a lowest-common-denomiator approach.

That one should not run in a browser, that's why i think they will never drop WPF or .NET. But it's a good thing they allow windows to have more of these smaller gadgets or apps, which don't require WPF to build them. There are tons of those, that are used more and more, today.

Worse, some web-app centric people think applications consist only of a from-like UI with a little bit of flashy animations added (example: "How ironic that you complain about HTML/JS, but do you realize the forum you are complaining on is written in HTML/JS?").

I build windows desktop apps, nothing web-app centric. I don't see why that's ironic.

@BitFlipper: I disagree on that. For small/medium sized applications, like the ones shown in the windows 8 demo video it's not. I agree on the fact that currently it also feels unreal to build a HTML5/js app once and be able to run it on 'every' device. (See for example how crappy iphone apps run on an ipad, the zoom and sizing issues are just crappy) But it feels more realistic than getting silverlight on all of those devices. And I assume with Mango (or the next version) most of these small html5 apps will be able to run on WP, because it includes IE9.

While I agree that Silverlight and it's tooling is miles ahead of html5 developent and I would rather build Silverlight apps than html5/js apps. It still allows Microsoft to tap into a larger developer audience, that is at the moment developing html5/js tablet or phone apps. Which will allow them to create a stronger marketplace of apps.

To me they didn't tell the world, we've dropped Silverlight or WPF development, they've showed one small thing and everyone is screaming. I assume building Silverlight or WPF tiles will just be possible. Than this is a smart move to get a stronger platform, because applications are important for that, without them you have an empty box. I own a WP7 and love it, but needs more apps (Don't know if that is because there isn't a marketplace in my country).

I don't understand why everyone is screaming that this is the end of .NET, are we going to build webservices using javascript, workflow systems using javascript? that's insane..

Microsoft invested lot's of money into building the parts of .NET. And I don't see them push out javascript based frameworks and solid tools to do this before the release date of windows 8. I don't know what the development of Silverlight 5 costs, but I assume it isn't that cheap to let it run and throw it away, because of html5.

The story of building these small apps in html5/js instead of silverlight isn't that bad. This probably has a larger range of supported devices than silverlight or wpf (can) have. I would not be supprised if you could just build silverlight or wpf tiles if you wanted, which might in some cases be more reasonable than building it in html5/js. But if you build them in silverlight, than they won't be supported on other devices, like the ipad or android tablets.

@LCARSNxG: You are overreacting.

How long do you assume it will take you as a developer to learn the following and why?

- HTML5/ javascript

- xaml (WPF/Silverlight)

cool, thanks it works!

Hi Duncanma,

Can you move the live id account settings from the eriklieben account to this account?

Thanks!