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Discussions

felix9 felix9 the cat that walked by itself
  • Patrick Dussud says the same CLR on the desktop will run on phones and devices

    OK, I inspected some pdb files of .NET Framework 4.5, and saw this in sos.pdb/mscoreei.pdb

    _CLR_ID_V4_DESKTOP
    _CLR_ID_CORECLR
    _CLR_ID_PHONE_CLR

    Now we have Phone NT and Phone CLR, what else ? Phone RT ? Tongue Out

  • Interesting Win8 PC form-factor from Acer

    Getting the Windows codebase to 'compile and run' on ARM should be relatively easy, given the flexibility of NT kernel, and the maturity of VC compiler for ARM, but getting it to 'run well' is much harder. It's not so much about the architecture or instruction set, but more about the raw horsepower and capabilities.

    Historically, the philosophy of Windows and Microsoft app is, the hardware should become more and more powerful very quickly, and still cheaper according to the Moore's law, so Windows should leverage more and more hardware horsepower to deliver rich experience, never afraid of using more CPU, RAM, power and storage, just stuff more functionalities and eyecandies into Windows, the power of PC will run them well soon.

    But apparently this philosophy has changed for Win8, the death of Aero Glass can be a good example, glass effects might be cool eyecandy but they are consuming CPU/GPU and battery power for little value. And by removing the Enterprise managability and limiting the Desktop, WoA can get rid of a boatload of bagages from all these years. I guess its Sinofsky's ultimate revenge to Allchin.

    P.S. personally I guess LongARM started during or after Vista cycle but getting progress slowly due to the bad quality of Vista, they should push a really decent Windows release out the door first, so maybe the project was getting serious push again only after W7 shipped, and be boosted after the purchase of ARM architecture blurprint win 2010.

  • Interesting Win8 PC form-factor from Acer

    Acer: Windows 8 on ARM performance "isn't great"
    http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/374992/acer-windows-8-on-arm-performance-isnt-great#ixzz1wpTa6NpS

  • The Windows 8 nadir

    well...people have tested ViStart, Start8 and Classic Shell on Win8 RP and they all working fine.

    http://www.neowin.net/news/start-menu-apps-still-work-in-windows-8-release-preview

    what was Thurrot talking about ??? RPEnabled & shsxs ?

  • The Windows 8 nadir

    OH! So you want binary backward compatibilty between a BETA and an RC version, for a totally new feature ???? what are you thinking ????

    You design an app for a beta, its very normal that it broke in the RC, anything special here ???

    Even 'normal' app are bound to broke, while these apps are basically a hack, so even riskier

  • MS working on a same compiler for C++ AND C# ! Not in 'incubation' but for production !

    Well, well, I think this 'compiler' has little to do with C++ front end, its not about trans-compile C# to C++ , I guess its all about the c2.dll aka Microsoft Optimizing Compiler.

    , blowdart wrote

    *snip*

    No no it's Just For Jon. You see the CLR team is amazed at the Skeet's stack overflow rep. Maybe if they change the compiler he'll be stumped for a while and everyone else can get a chance to ask questions.

    Note: This is a lie.

    LMAO! OK.

    sorry for the typo. Embarassed

  • Metro IE 10 - Flash lives! (maybe)

    Huh, MS said ImmersiveIE will be 'no plugin', now Flash is not a plugin but builtin so its OK ?

  • MS working on a same compiler for C++ AND C# ! Not in 'incubation' but for production !

    , DeathByVisualStudio wrote

    OMG! Is this the end of .NET? Wink

    That was fun.

    Of course not, its a Nirvana ! of the Phoenix ! Smiley (Nirvana could be a perfect codename btw)

    VB5 is not the end of VB right ? that was VB6 ...... oh wait.

    No, this is just a logical thing when the CLR want to reach resource-constrained devices,
    do you think the managed language teams will sit there listening Herb Sutter bragging about
    the performance advantages of C++/native code and then give up and do nothing ? huh.

    At least, a much-better optimized NGEN wont kill the platform right ?

    , Charles wrote

    @felix9: Good boy.

    C

    So, may I go on ? talking about 'incomplete technical information' or 'partial data', there are indeed so many questions and mysteries about this thing.

    What about the CLR ? will it be exactly the same CLR too ? or something like SLR ? I guess the Redhawk itself is somehow dead, because a seperate and different runtime is not practical, if you can't port existing .NET code directly, then its not that useful.

    Then how compatible will the language be ? IIRC Bartok has some limitations on language features right ? (could be wrong though) Can I set 'Compile to native' as a checkbox, like in VB5 ? or could it be a seperate kind of project type with some rules ?

    IIRC the benefits of VB5 native compiling were limited because most of the code calls into the runtime library / COM anyway and wont gain much from native code in itself, except heavy math routines. And in the WinRT world you can always write those code in native languages. so ... I guess Herb Sutter was right about the inlining of templates, without virtual calls, C++ is still better.

    What about P/Invoke and reversed P/Invoke ? IIRC one good thing about Redhawk is low cost and seamless calls between C and C# code, right ? is this why we wont need XNA anymore ?

    What about the Metadata ? Reflections ? Emit ?

    Hmmmm..... really want to hear someone really knows what they are talking about to talk !

  • MS working on a same compiler for C++ AND C# ! Not in 'incubation' but for production !

    OK. I'm fully aware of the hilariousness of speculating, but its way more funnier than waiting, right ? I'm not going to base any business decisions on that, and I believe nobody will.

    As Linus Torvalds said : Just For Jun.

  • MS working on a same compiler for C++ AND C# ! Not in 'incubation' but for production !

    , Bass wrote

    It's hilarious how much detail you can get about a company's strategy just by reading their job openings.

    Oh its not about 'company strategy' but just some geeky technology tibits, of course its just speculating but speculating is always fun ! Especially when MS is not as open as before.

    , SteveRichter wrote

    What does this mean for Anders? Will he have to answer to the native language team before any additions to C#?

    Well, I read it carefully and sometimes it actually says the compiler is compiling MSIL, so it could work like NGEN/JIT or a post-compiling phase. of course the C# frontend (Roslyn?) could be integrated too, to provide more analysis and optimizing possiblities. So basically Anders owns the frontend and VC team has the backend (or one of the backends) I guess.

    , bondsbw wrote

    @magicalclick: Assuming you were not attempting to write drivers in C#, what about it is slower or supports less hardware than C++?  (Of course, I'm assuming you are still targeting Windows...)

    Case studies tend to show that C# produces better performance than C++.  I've seen where people have set out to show how bad C# performs compared to native code, and change their minds once they see the results.

    This isn't meant to troll, but I'm genuinely curious since this is not the typical path taken.

    Tell the news to Herb Sutter ! or read this :

    https://careers.microsoft.com/jobdetails.aspx?jid=76831

    Managed code can be much higher performing when it is compiled by an ahead-of-time advanced optimizing compiler to native code.