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Discussions

Vesuvius vesuvius Count Orlock
  • Reinventing the Vista wheel

    Dexter said:
    vesuvius said:
    *snip*
    Umm... and what exactly is stopping you from using 256x256 32bit images with WinForms ListView?! I've yet to try with 256x256 but I know for sure that 48x48 32bit (with alpha transparency) images work just fine on Vista. On XP the same images appear as if they were 8bit (or maybe 16bit) but the application still works fine.

    And the explorer theme is only one line of code away (well, 3 lines if I include the interop declaration Smiley )

    [DllImport("uxtheme.dll", CharSet = CharSet.Unicode, ExactSpelling = true)]
    private static extern int SetWindowTheme(IntPtr hWnd, string appName, string partList);

    SetWindowTheme(listView1.Handle, "explorer", null);

    Of course it would be better if this would be part of the framework but it is also easy enough to do it yourself if you really want to.

    And the devil is in the details: there is no such thing as Vista ListView control. There is a Windows ListView control and System.Windows.Forms.ListView is a wrapper of that. It only happens that a couple of messages and flags (mostly groups related) are not exposed in the managed API. But that's nothing new, not all functionality that was introduced with XP is available in WinForms.


    I will try this.

    I tried things like http://www.danielmoth.com/Blog/2007/01/treeviewvista.html but I was getting unexpected behaviour and I presume this is what the library is that Tommy linked to at the top

    there is a difference between this listview



    and this one


  • Reinventing the Vista wheel

    Maddus Mattus said:
    Bas said:
    *snip*

    Kinda like when you ate at McDonalds Wink
    The thing is they have tried though with ASP.NET. Not to say the developer division are biased or anything (I do think the love is with the web), but ASP.NET has a tonne of value with each Visual Studio release. You can almost bet on a new grid type control, data sources and so forth. AJAX and MVC being the newest additions. The Entity Framework is in all truth designed top to bottom for REST (full) web services and a sweet spot will be when it and Silverlight meet.  Experience tells you to never use the standalone ASP.NET menu or grid control for instance, but as starting tools they are loads better than client stuff. CSS is such a strong element though in web design. We are beginning to see the same with sites like http://reuxables.nukeation.com/ for WPF - surely it should have been vica-versa.

    Hopefully at some point people are skilled enough to provide free resource dictionaries for Silverlight or WPF - just like CSS - because the system makes it so easy to do this sort of thing, I'm not sure you should be paying. In WPF or Silverlight, emphasis is in recreating all the standard controls at the moment, be it a datetime picker or a datagrid and it will be some time before a new type of control not previously available surfaces in WPF.




  • Reinventing the Vista wheel

    Maddus Mattus said:
    vesuvius said:
    *snip*
    I still have to agree with Bas that I would want superiour stuff as standard or bundled with Visual Studio.
    So do I, I agree with Bas entirely!

     I love things that are standard, and in general hate having to go to this vendor for this, and that vendor for that. Ray7 has just linked to an advert that Jerry Seinfeld (won't steal the link to his thread) is being paid $10 million for, in an attempt to reverse Vista Misconceptions.

    If they used that 10 million in managed wrappers for the OS, users would be wow-ed when 90% of their applications have cool Vista theming with a Listview that has very clear 256X256 icons and lovely filtering etc.

     As it is, it's "money for old rope" in my opinion.

  • Reinventing the Vista wheel

    Maddus Mattus said:
    Bas said:
    *snip*

    Microsoft is a huge partner organisation, they will do anything not to rub the partners the wrong way. As you may know many of those partners are third party control vendors. If Microsoft would all of a sudden release their Vista control suite for free with VS 2008 for instance, they would disappoint the partners.

    I would not like to be in their shoes, constantly weighing the pro's and the cons. Knowing that each choice will make someone angry.

    Microsoft,at present, are developing a datagrid for WPF. I will tell you for free, that it will not compare within a country mile of the Xceed grid for WPF. Microsoft are also developing a Silverlight datagrid. That already is piteous in comparison to the Silverlight one from DevExpress ( free as well).

    For all their previous controls, windows forms for example, 3rd party vendors always augmented them and added new features,  improving performance. The same can be said for the Vista API controls. Were managed wrappers to be available, these third parties will love it, as they would augment them. If you look for the best performing - and looking - datagrid (client wise), it certainly is not Microsoft, but Xceed and DevExpress. The same can be said for a variety of their standard controls

  • Reinventing the Vista wheel

    TommyCarlier said:
    It's not from Microsoft itself, but you could try Windows Forms Aero, an open source project that provides WinForms wrappers around the native Vista controls.
    Those controls are great  and only serve to illustrate a few tricks that Microsoft have missed. It just seems to me that there is a climate of ploughing resources into one thing , e.g. WPF and completely ignoring previous technologies. What was there for winforms in the new service pack? A new repeater control that wasn't even developed for the service pack (all other component vendors are continuing to plough resources in). It just so happened that the Visual Basic powerpacks team happened to create one in their power packs three. It is the year 2008 and client applications have a repeater control, at last. ASP.NET seems where all the resources have been spent as they have repeaters, datalists and several grid and listview controls.

    This in some ways is what limits the Vista operating system and ignites a "nothing is new" stance that people take with Vista. In Tommy's link there is a comment by a WPF mover and shaker Marlon Grech asking if a WPF will be supported, so as you can see, this spans all presentation technologies.

    So what is next? PDC 2008 which means Windows and Visual Studio [version next] will arrive 2010 at the very earliest. I presume a Vista SP2 is already in the pipeline. what I wonder will be the focus?

  • Reinventing the Vista wheel

    If you look at your windows forms toolbox, there is a myriad of controls that are essentially managed win32 wrappers. Think TreeView, ListView, menu control, notify control -yada, yada yada.

    Is there any reason why a managed wrapper was not made available for the Vista List view control for both windows forms and WPF? Both would be utilising the systems controls and lead to the promotion of the platform via applications that use it. We all know how long it takes to procure controls and emphasis on Vista via Microsoft is mysterious. It has just dawned upon me, that most of visual studio is geared towards XP type controls, everything else you have to do it yourself.

    If managed wrappers had been made available for both winforms and wpf, application developers would be acres and acres ahead, and they wouldn't have needed to worry about performance because the last couple of years have shown that the controls work.

    Yes WPF is the new kid on the block, but previous technologies will not dissapear. It frustrates me that I have to go to third parties who are re-inventing the same wheel, when I have the wheel in the same room, except it is in a cage and I can't access it. What a waste.

  • What do you want?

    More Base Class Library stuff, especially the MEF going really deep - what does it mean, what is it for? More from Meijers, Beckman, the Spec# team and MSR Academics. Maybe even the interns in MSR as they are never visible.

    Patterns and practices and application architecture, not enough people know or concentrate enough on architecture (myself included).

    I also feel you need to switch from developers to designers and possibly show the steps Microsoft envisage for design, because this is a central tenet to windows 7 and the Internet going forward. I mean look at Telerik's Silverlight controls. This isn't just C# or VB code but some real creativity. There must be a David Tietlebaum for Silverlight coz these guys are nothing but talent.

  • Do you still use stored procedures?

    If you are a database oriented developer, there is a myriad of choice nowadays. Do you still use stored procedures or do you see Linq and the ADO.NET Entity Framework as they way to go?

    Yes, it is true that one can access stored procedures from both Linq and EF, but do you prefer the flexibility they give as a "trade off" over supposed performance and or code separation?

  • E7 Blog: The Windows 7 Team

    matthews said:
    Bass said:
    *snip*
    If I read the blog post correctly, 40 is roughly the number of people per feature team on average. N is then the number of devs in that feature team, which is usually equivalent to the number of testers. Then there are usually about 0.5N PMs to go with those. Follow the numbers, and you'd have 16 devs, 16 testers, and 8 pms on an average feature team.
    Don't forget the Solicitors

  • Infoworld: 35% of business users downgraded to XP

    Pace said:
    vesuvius said:
    *snip*
    Lets see if you still feel that Vista has little business value when you enter somewhere and realise that no-one has heard of disk cleanup. I swear if you have a machine that hasnt had it run recently or in many cases, never at all you will know what im talking about.

    Vista disk cleanup on the other hand is a god send. As is the search. Easy to view author tags etc on docs. Its the little things in Vista that make it better for business and its the big bang things like aero and animations to please the home users.

    I actually find it easier to keep the Vista box's in a better state of running from a maintenance point of view than the XP ones. In my case.

    edit: Search not seach
    That is not my view, but that of who I work for, i.e. "who pays the bills". I have had to go into meetings to justify "enabling visual styles" on XP and I've still not been able to convince them - it is a real battle.

    If you walk into a call centre or a warehouse/factory or even a GP surgery you will find that they all work from an application called x-y-z, which isn't even multi-threaded (some big supermarkets included). In big places central (proprietary) software is usually virtualised and using Internet Explorer 6.

    Unless you have a new start-up or a slick upmarket image conscious company, then you will find the wheels of XP spinning around and around. Vista is only found at a bank, when you go meet your bank manager becuase they have to look good (to embezzle you). The back end machines will be XP. Only other places are advertising/publishing and arty-farty type places. Of course there are always exceptions but you are living in dreamland if you think corporations just upgrade OS's willy-nilly. Government department are even worse.