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wastingtimewithforums wastingtime​withforums
  • Told ya (dotnet)

    In opposite to W8, no hate involved here, just clarification.

    On this very thread are people who assumed Winforms and WPF were included. If MS confuses seasoned .NET developers, what does it tell about their PR in this case?

  • Told ya (dotnet)

    WTF do you want them to do, go back all the way to .NET 2.0 to put in thousands of hacks that *might* allow the framework run on top of the new core just so that the 1% of enterprises that use Mac and/or Linux client OSes can run existing WPF-based LOB applications on those platforms?

    Mono runs at least somewhat Winforms and Webforms, and that's a mom & pop shop compared to Microsoft. At the very least be more honest regarding the messaging - three of the four things on the right in this graphic ("the open .NET ecosystem) are not included in the open release. Confusing much?

    If the open-sourcing of Java would have went like this (Fully open source! Except Swing, AWT, SWT, half of J2EE..) they would be laughed out to the moon. The only thing why this hasn't happened to MS yet is because everyone thinks they have indeed open sourced the whole thing, given how MS is selling it. Read up the forums and comments on the internet about this. The vast majority hasn't realized what's missing. Lots of people talk about porting their WPF and Winforms projects to Mac, running ASP.NET (forms) on Linux..

    But as I said, this topic doesn't me interest that much - it's just another huge warning sign I am seeing, yet another MS PR explosion in the making once the dust settles.

  • Told ya (dotnet)

    , figuerres wrote


    given the current focus on things, given that webforms and winforms are kind of "AT EOL" more or less then most of this seems ok to me.

    WinRT on non-tablet is more EOL than Webforms and Winforms. Maybe even WPF.

    Outside of a fancy boardroom meetings, there still exists something like the "real world". And in the real world the amount of *forms project is staggering. Especially Winforms never had a true successor technology - all its successors had a lackluster start (WPF, WinRT) or were outright pulled (Silverlight).

    I mean sure, MS can pretend that "no one cares" about *forms (and WPF apparently too), but that's not how the world outside Redmond works.

    Their pretend-plays, like "no one cares about desktop" and "no one cares about offline-play" tanked two of their flagship already and once the wider community gets the facts how bare-bones this "open source initivative" is, the collective yawn can be heard on Mars.

    I mean how many people on this very thread thought until now that pretty much only the compiler and MVC are open sourced? All that cross-plattform talk is baseless - not a single non-console .NET program works with what they have FOSSed (unless you used QT maybe).

    But whatever, compared to the other recent MS f* ups this is pretty minor and doesn't warrant any emotions. Have fun.

  • Told ya (dotnet)

    , blowdart wrote


    Well MVC and WebAPI and SignalR and Identity etc. The stuff under active development. If you look at ASP.NET v.next, which has been on github for a year webforms is not part of it.

    Identity and SignalR? When someone says "PHP", do you think about HipHop and Parrot?

    In the real world, when you say of ASP.NET everyone thinks Webforms and MVC. The number of Webforms-projects in the wild is huge. So it's quite disingenuous telling everyone that "ASP.NET is open sourced" when a crucial part of it isn't.

    That would be like making Windows RT free of cost and scream "WINDOWS IS FREE NOW!"

    , blowdart wrote

    Funny, I'd have thought an open source compiler was the crown jewels, and again Roslyn has been open source for a while.

    Compilers and programming languages are dime a dozen. Average developers are hyped because they think they can run their .NET Windows programs now officially and without any fuss on Mac and Linux. But without Winforms and WPF that's obviously not the case.

    Yet another compiler in the wild doesn't really phase anybody.

    Once people realize what the package really consists of, the hangover will be palpable.

  • Told ya (dotnet)

    , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

    Love it! Microsoft is going all guns a blazing. Now just buy Xamarin and include their stuff for free and you've got it all!

    *Edit: I see what they're doing and it's pretty smart. Open source the deprecated bits (WPF, Winforms) and extend the reach of .Net to Linux and OS/X (but for Windows locked to W10). It's pretty clear they want everyone on board .Net Native AND "encourage" Windows users (corporations specifically) to upgrade to W10. One API to rule them all. I'm cool with that.

    Sorry, no. The crown jewels are not open sourced.


    Microsoft is not planning to open source the client side .NET stack, which means it won't be open sourcing libraries specific to the client such as Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) and Windows Forms, Somasegar confirmed.

    And ASP.NET is not really open sourced either, only the MVC part is. The still widely used webforms part is untouched and won't work on Linux and Mac (that's really false advertising they are doing by hiding these tidbits deep in some MSDN pages).

    So it's pretty much just MVC, the compiler and "base class libraries" (the millionth implementation of math and http).

    The hype is unwarranted.

  • They might have well said...

    By the way:


    Jan 10, 2013
    'Apple is done' and Surface tablet is cool, according to teens


    January 14, 2013

    Buzz Marketing Group has reported that Apple devices have become less popular among the kids. It was the time when kids showed off their Apple products that made them more cool. Things have changed now, the report says Microsoft...  Surface has taken over the Apple. Kids and teenagers find Microsoft Surface RT tablet more cool than Apple product. The Surface RT tablet innovates the tablet market with minimal design and great software within it that drew teenagers attention


    Yeah, how did that turn out? I have a feeling my bet is pretty safe. It's like betting against the Year of the Linux Desktop.

  • They might have well said...

    , bondsbw wrote

    @wastingtimewithforums:  Yes it is, and that is precisely my point.  What they are planning to buy.  I never said they had bought them yet.

    Who knows, maybe they'll all have a change in heart and prove WTWF right all along!

    I am very sure that the market share will stay the same the next couple of years in the tablet market. The negativitiy surrounding W8 is still huge and the "modern" aesthetic doesn't seem to have a wide appeal, as shown by WP. Android is also turning out to be the Windows of mobile and was always marketed to get as much ground as possible, while Microsoft aimed a doomed-to-fail "we are as cool, closed and as pricey as Apple!"-approach (Surface, locked down app stores, my-way-or-the-highway atmosphere throughout the W8-run).

    So yeah, I bet that not much will change in the coming years.

    You can save this URL and rub it in my face later if you want.

  • They might have well said...

    , bondsbw wrote


    My link is recent.  Yours are months old.  The Surface Pro 3 probably shook some things up.


    Bullshit. The newest link is from end of July. That's just two and half months ago. Even if you would get a free gold nugget with every Surface, it couldn't upside the market like that in just two months!

    Have you actually read your own link? It's not a marketshare analysis, but a US-only teen survey of what they might buy! And even then Android is leading ahead of Windows if you count in the Kindle Fire.

  • They might have well said...

    , bondsbw wrote

    That's not an iPad killer, and I'm not claiming it to be even close at this point, but it is better numbers than Android.

    Have you portaled from another dimension?



  • They might have well said...

    , bondsbw wrote

    So why didn't they commit to bringing the start menu back?  I don't know.  Maybe they didn't want to commit to supporting a feature if the market, in general, decided it didn't want it anymore.

    Oh yeah, that makes sense. No one cared except that the huge shitstorm regarding W8 (of which the metro menu/start menu controversy was a huge part) caused MS to backtrack several times now (Update 1, 8.1, W10).

    And aside from the start menu, what was all the talk about the "legacy desktop" and "legacy apps"? What stopped them clarifying all this if it was all "planned"?

    We have two options:

    1. There was no grand plan and MS was a on a madhatter trip throughout the metro-mania.

    2. There was indeed a completely retarded plan that not even a 80s cartoon villian on crack could cook up so stupid.

    I am not sure why you even bother, because both options cast a bad light on Microsoft anno 2012.