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wastingtimewithforums wastingtime​withforums
  • Satya speaking...

    , cbae wrote

    But rationalizing it as complete rejection of the UI due to the removal of the stupid Start Menu makes so much more sense.

    Are you trying to be a martyr or something? If yes, then find something better than Windows 8 to die for - that thing is a done deal. Even Microsoft is busy burrying it. Of course, it's always cute when the peasants are more eager for the cause than the kings themselves, but even that stunt gets old after a while.

    You had more chances selling Boo.com stocks after the dotcom crash than trying to sell Windows 8 as a success story now.

    Aw, poor baby. Can you no longer run applications that you could in Windows 7? Can you no longer manage files like you could before? Can you no longer manage your network settings like you could before? Can you no longer manage services like you could before? Can you no longer create network shares like you could before? Can you no longer muck with the Registry like you could before? Can you no longer control everything with PowerShell like you could before?

    I can do all these things with Gentoo (together with WINE) too!

    I can also mow lawn with a knife if needed. Doesn't change the fact that desktopy tasks are done easier on W7 than on W8.

    Have you really forgotten how bad you were at this, cbae? Need some reminder?


    In case you forgot: You haven't scored in a single Windows 8 thread. If you can't shoot, don't carry guns.

  • Satya speaking...


    Huh, you misunderstood me. The cursive slogans are what they should have done - (offering the uncrippled desktop in W8 etc.). .. Instead they were busy to trash their own crown jewels.

  • Satya speaking...


    Man, if Apple succeeds to "businessify" the iPhone and iPad one more reason to get a Windows Phone is out of the window.

    Oh wait, that was true for Windows Mobile; Windows Phone is a to the letter (except for the tiles) iPhone me-too product with less biz features than WM 6.5 and more restricted than iOS.

    Nothing lost then. I still can't believe that Windows Phone had no VPN until June of this year, while WM had it over ten years ago. And let's not mention Outlook sync - Android and iOS are actually far better at this than WP. Seriously, WTF?

    The funny thing is that Microsoft was uniquely positioned thanks to its "legacy" products to keep the competitors out.

    "You have doubts about the cloud for your valued data amidst the recent spy scandals? Don't worry, with Microsoft server software you still have your data in your own hands - our premium cloud solutions are an option when you need them." (note how "private-cloud boxes" are getting popular lately, which are basically just on-premise servers)

    "Your employees are trained on Windows and your business runs on Windows software? No problem - Windows 8 includes the new metro interface for mobile devices AND the complete familiar Windows interface for PCs - use your computer how you want, no re-adjustments neccessary".

    Instead they were busy to trash their own crown jewels (and still do in parts).

  • Seems like metro on the desktop is a done deal

    So much for the FrankenOS vision:


    While it is still a little unclear if the Threshold update for PCs will be called Windows 9 or something else, what is starting to become known is how that OS will deviate from Microsoft's [metro] past. For mouse and keyboard users, Threshold will be the update many have been waiting for as Microsoft continues to move away form the Sinofsky vision of hybrid OS.

    Threshold will be a further move away from the Modern UI environment for desktop users. In some builds of Threshold, the Modern UI is disabled by default. You have to manually turn it back on but this is situation dependent, if you wish to access the live tile environment.

    If you are on a tablet, the Modern UI is still present and takes precedence over the classic desktop but on traditional PCs, the Modern UI is no longer utilized by default. This is where some of the confusion comes in that we had been hearing about a 'decentralized' use of the Modern UI but this is device-specific; for tablet and hybrid device users, the touch-focused UI is still a focal point. The biggest changes are in store for users of desktop-class systems.


    We have also been hearing that the UI is 'visually distinct' too, meaning that when you see Threshold, it's easy to tell that it is not Windows 8.1.


    Users running Threshold on a desktop/laptop will get a SKU, or version, that puts the Windows Desktop (for running Win32/legacy apps) front and center.

    The Desktop/laptop SKU of Threshold will include, as previously rumored, the Mini-Start menu — a new version of the traditional Microsoft Start menu, an early concept of which Microsoft showed off at the company's Build developers conference in April. It also will include the ability to run Metro-Style/Windows Store apps in windows on the Desktop. Will it turn off completely the Metro-Style Start screen with its live-tile interface, as Neowin is reporting, and make the tiled Start Menu a toggleable option from the Mini Start menu? I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised.

    Microsoft is basically "done" with Windows 8.x. Regardless of how usable or functional it is or isn't, it has become Microsoft's Vista 2.0 -- something from which Microsoft needs to distance itself, perception-wise. At this point, Microsoft is going full steam-ahead toward Threshold and will do its best to differentiate that OS release from Windows 8.

    Looks like metro is gonzo.

  • China bans Windows 8

    BEIJING, May 20 (Xinhua) -- China has announced that it will forbid the use of the Windows 8 operating system (OS) in new government computers, a move to ensure computer security after the shutdown of Windows XP.

    All desktops, laptops and tablet PCs to be purchased by central state organs must be installed with OS other than Windows 8, according to an online statement by the Central Government Procurement Center.

    I wonder if W7 is ok then, given the bold parts?

    The "computer security" bit sounds to me like a cop-out because stating the real reason won't sound so sexy: "Windows 8 is banned, because we don't want to train thousands of users on this Frankenstein OS or buy sh!t tons of Start8 licenses".

    In my opinion they should have waited until Windows 8.1 Update 2, Windows 8.2 or whatever the GUI repaired version is called is released and decide then.

  • You must pay $100 to deploy your own software in Windows

    , AndyC wrote

    And, like it or not, there are many benefits to end users from the curated and sandboxed Store development model that they'd lose from allowing unconstrained side loading. You only have to look at what a malware-fest Android has become to see that. It's entirely the thing most users would happily pay to get away from.

    Why reading and dealing with previous posts and working with arguments when you can be Microsoft's PR grammaphone instead?

    Speaking of not reading:

    And, FYI, the $100 is an alternative to volume licensing. And only necessary in any case if you aren't using a domain. http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/springboard/archive/2014/04/03/windows-8-1-sideloading-enhancements.aspx


    Also starting May 1, 2014, other customers who want to enable sideloading will be able to purchase an Enterprise Sideloading key for $100 through the Open License program. An unlimited number of devices can be enabled for sideloading using this key.

    Open License is volume licensing:


    Microsoft Open License is a volume licensing program for small- to mid-sized companies with fewer than 250 desktop computers.


    Minimum Number of Desktop PCs: 5+

  • You must pay $100 to deploy your own software in Windows

    , AndyC wrote

    And the success of iOS, not to mention curated repositories on Linux distros, has proved over and over again that customers prefer getting all their software and updates from a single place. Nit to mention the amount of reach you can gain from being in a central store will usually give you far more sales than any profit sharing will affect.

    And if you really don't like that, stick to writing desktop applications.

    Sheesh, some of you guys really have no idea what a huge portion of the Windows user base consists of.

    To quote myself:


    There are bazillion custom software existing in the wild, almost every office has some custom scripts or software that are vital for the day to day business, and that's just one segment, let's add labs, shops, smallish one-man ventures and so on and you have the biggest software zoo in the world. To some of these, 100$ is indeed a big deal. Also, it's not just 100$: You need to have volume licensing, too! And apparently the PC needs to be in a domain. Both are certainly not a given, folks!


    Think of all the doctors, lawyers, small architect bureaus, tax consultants .. the list is endless. Many of them have just two PCs in their offices (one of the secretary, one for themselves), they don't need volume licensing, and often not even a Windows server (so they can't even use the 100$ offer!) But they often run custom software, some of which is even tailor made.

    The notion to depend on a app-store for these mission critical pieces of software is just nuts, especially given the fact that Microsoft's track record running software depositories is nothing to write home about:


    People aren't that stupid, the very possible prospect not be able to open a custom file format because the app is pulled from the store for various reasons (vendor defunct) or because Microsoft ceased to support the app-store of your Windows version isn't exactly endearing.

    Coming up with iOS and Linux distros is absurd. iOS is not used in the areas Windows is used, and non-Android Linux is hovering around 1% for decades. Maybe Windows can join it later, if Microsoft continues to completely forget what Windows is actually used for in the real world.

  • Dat Start Menu (NOT COMING IN 8.1 Update BUT SOME TIME LATER edition)

    , bondsbw wrote

    And I said that as the mobile strategy began to pick up steam, Microsoft would start to rebalance its focus on enterprise users and non-mobile situations (while maintaining and not completely reversing its mobile strategy).

    So that that was like the plan all along? Let's see what forcing metro on the desktop and removing the start menu brought to the table:

    -The growth of WP during the W8 years was pretty stagnant, so there were no synergies (maybe even the opposite: "W8 sucks, I am not going to buy a Windows phone!")

    -Windows 8's stake in the tablet market compared to iOS and Android is miniscule.

    -Yet: Massive negavitity towards Windows 8 (and often Microsoft as a whole) in the traditional Windows segments.

    I am sure not being a dick towards the loyal Windows customers would have at least changed point 3. Maybe even points 1 and 2 would be better without the negative aura Microsoft's boneheaded decisions casted on everything Windows 8 related as a whole.

  • You must pay $100 to deploy your own software in Windows

    , bondsbw wrote

    @wastingtimewithforums:  My point was that such an attitude reinforces the need for antivirus protection, which is associated with unresponsive systems and nagware.  iOS is refreshing because it doesn't need this.  Android would arguably need antivirus if it were used in the same enterprise/PC setting as Windows is.

    And with such restrictions, iOS can never replace Windows.

    iOS' marketshare is crashing down fast, and not far into the future, the Android/iOS ratio will be the same as the Windows/Mac OS ratio. I am not saying the the lock-down is the main reason for this development, but it's surely one of the reasons. Enthusiasts (many of who were once on Windows and Windows Mobile) are flocking to Android, and these people are great multiplicators.

    I am pretty sure that the market as a whole would rather prefer to have Android with AV than the oh so pure iOS. iOS, with its strict regime, has no chance in hell that it can replace the Windows workhorse (Apple knows that and has MacOS for serious stuff anyway), Android on the other hand has that possibility if Microsoft keeps the Apple-envy. Microsoft can't be for real: They still continue to talk W32/.NET down, WinRT on the other hand is restricted to teeth functionality-wise and "freedom"-wise, yet MS expects devs should be happy? Hello? It can be seen from Mars that Microsoft's API offerings right now for the usual main Windows-duties just suck.

    "Android would arguably need antivirus if it were used in the same enterprise/PC setting as Windows is"

    The job of AV in enterprise is usually not to guard the users against installing programs - that's locked down by policies anyway.

    It's surreal - with Android, we have a repeat of the classical Windows story on the mobile front (multiple vendors, few restrictions as possible, not expensive), and as Windows back in the days, it is grabbing marketshare left and right. What's Microsoft's answer? The niche model of Apple, right up to copying pricing (Surface) and attitude,  just without the loyal well-funded hipsters but with even more lockdowns than the original and a massive FU to the core user base. Oh yeah!

    They are now finally waking up and making adjustments (start menu, price reduction for OEMs and stuff), but that they thought their "original plan" would fly was nuts. A non-escapable app-store on a general purpose OS is nuts too, if they want WinRT to be massively adopted in W32/.NET areas and not having it around as gadgets+.

  • You must pay $100 to deploy your own software in Windows

    , kettch wrote

    Have you seen what these sites are doing to people these days? They are there under the guise of providing a service to both users and developers, however, they are full of misleading ads and in the last couple of years have started re-wrapping installers with their own custom malware without developer consent. That's just the reputable ones like CNet, imagine what the rest of them are doing.

    "That's just the reputable ones like CNet, imagine what the rest of them are doing"

    Is it worse than Microsoft's various antics? Especially in the past few years Microsoft has shown that is not above deception - my favourite example was how the Xbone officials kept proclaiming that it is absolutely impossible to change the DRM and the Xbone design, only to announce literally just a few hours later that it is changed.

    That's not specific to MS, big corporations are always looking to increase profit, just don't trust them that they place your well-being above financials.

    At least with the download portals there is competition, yet you're advocating for a monopoly-store and locked sideloading on a general purpose PC OS, even for non-fart apps, from a vendor which has already shown how reliable it is at providing services like these in times of marketing-pressures.