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  • These Windows 10 ​adware/prel​oader patches are packaged with important security updates. JUST WTF?!

    , Craig_​Matthews wrote

    Yes, they should have put a checkbox that says "stop bugging me about this." I read you loud and clear there and agree with you 100%. But, no offense to anyone on this forum, we're dealing with a company where Hanlon's Razor should be the very first plausible explanation for anything -- not nefarious imagined threats of an upgrade. 

    They are not THAT incompetent.

    Burrying it into gpedit.msc is actually more work than putting a checkbox into the dialog itself.

    The nag-screen to 8.1 was later replaced by this one:

     

     

    This appeared automatically after important updates KB3008273 and KB2973544.

    And once this screen appeared, you had no choice except to postpone. And after the second time, even postponing didn't work anymore.

    I want to stay with Windows 8.0, but I'm given a band notification which requests to confirm upgrade to Windows 8.1. The notification can be postponed only twice, third time it forces the upgrade.

    I couldn't stop it. It got to the point where it just reset my computer and finished installation itself [... ] After the install I had to delete every app it installed. Change back every setting it changed. Had to delete countless things and I am still fixing settings. It put its BS search engine on my computer and even added things to my favorites bar (unforgiveable). At this point in my life I am done with Microsoft for good. This computer is going to be sold very shortly and very unimpressed by this violation of my computer. No means no.

    I failed to stop it too. Even though I turned off that stuff it had already downloaded and scheduled the Windows 8.1 update and it started updating when I turned off my machine late last night.  I wasn't having any of that so I shut off the power, twice.  That cancelled the update but left my Windows 8 in a non-functional state where it was complaining about NTLDR missing and giving error code 0xc000000f.  The Windows 8 automatic system repair on my DVD wouldn't fix it because it thought it was now a different operating system I think.  The refresh option would not work on it either.  To make things extra annoying Microsoft thought it would be a good idea to erase all system restore checkpoints before doing the Windows 8.1 update, so there was no way to get anything back with that either.  For anyone without considerable technical know-how I'm guessing there would have been no option other than a complete fresh Windows install.

    I am really steamed about this.  The whole way the Windows 8.1 update works rubs me the wrong way.  The Windows 8.1 update should have had an obvious way to disable it and answer "Never offer me this again" when it tried to get me to installed and it didn't ... When it made the final installation request there should not have been only install now and install in 1-4 hours as options.  It should have had a cancel option as well.  It shouldn't just take control of my computer when it decides to update and give me no way to pause it to resume later in case I need to turn my computer off due to battery or time concerns.  Finally there should have been some way to uninstall the update if it was installed accidentally. Everything about the way it works is disrespectful to me as the end user just as WIndows 8 itself was as an "upgrade" to Windows XP or Windows 7.

    I have been reading all your comments and I am just as ANGRY about this as all of you. I also feel my computer has been hijacked and there was no way I could have stopped it.

    I cannot believe the company takes the liberty to really do this to users.... Already I was forced to use Windows 8, which I didn't want from the get-go and now am being force-fed 8.1?????? without my permission????? On a day I ABSOLUTELY needed to work on my computer and it was taken over by computer dictators for over an hour? No one from Microsoft will make sure that all my apps work, or that my Internet connection is fine, or that all of my software would work (which they do not!!!!!). They will send me a polite answer with a link that supposedly should help me but that will do F-all.

    Thank you for your lack of respect.

    http://superuser.com/questions/887706/how-to-disable-auto-upgrade-from-windows-8-0-to-8-1

    http://www.askvg.com/how-to-stop-automatic-forced-upgrade-from-windows-8-to-windows-8-1/

    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/forcing-me-to-upgrade-to-81-is-wrong/7c1261c6-2c5d-4cdb-a99d-8dd4706e8a36

    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_update/force-fed-windows-81-and-need-to-get-rid-if-asap/826071ef-1001-484f-8359-4f113368a568

    So if you didn't find the gpedit.msc "fix" before the countdown was up, you were forcefully upgraded to 8.1 without your say whatsoever.

    So given this precedent, and that these naggers for W7 are quite deceptively labeled and described, and the other deceptive and forceful tactics all around W10 (even more hidden local accounts, almost unconfigurable WU in 10, no ability to decline updates) my guess that the nagscreens would not stop appearing with just a tickbox in the screen itself is quite justified.

    But as a said, it's just an interpolation given the known variables and constants so far.

  • These Windows 10 ​adware/prel​oader patches are packaged with important security updates. JUST WTF?!

    , Craig_​Matthews wrote

    But this is just ridiculous. And make no mistake -- first this was about your contention that Microsoft was going to force people to upgrade to 10 .. but when that turned out to be not true, all of a sudden you agree that Microsoft would never do that, and now it's about the "nag" screen.

    No. Except in one case, I always talked about nag. The one case I did not was page six of the last thread:

    http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/There-is-no-escape-from-the-suck-train?page=6

    If they sink so low to purposely twist the descriptions of the updates and abusing their own security mechanism, there's a chance they would not stop at "upgrading"  W7 computers (at least the non-enterprise versions) to W10 without explicit consent either, and then twist themselves out of this mess by using word games. Until yesterday I thought they would never cross that line, but after that second, even more deceptively labeled update.. who knows.

    I wanted to edit it out later that day, because I still don't think they will cross that line.

    In every other post it was about nagscreens.

    , Craig_​Matthews wrote

    What really makes you seriously lose points though is the fact that you just stated that "The notification about 8.1 was not removable! (at least not without registry hacks)." and then you present 3 methods -- the first of which is a local group policy edit -- which is not a hack. It is the built-in, recommended, and supported method of making these types of granualar changes to the operating system's behavior.

    Uh, it's not.

    I bet that if one asked on this forum how to remove that screen most would look into the registry first.

    gpedit.msc is even more a hack than regedit for most people. Most users heard about the registry, but group policy is something almost no average user ever comes in contact with. Not even "enthusiasts" touch it, because the settings there are pretty much useless for non-domained PCs. Group policies are something mostly network admins deal with.

    Hiding the option there (instead of a tickbox in the nag-screen) is... hiding.

  • These Windows 10 ​adware/prel​oader patches are packaged with important security updates. JUST WTF?!

    , PeterF wrote

    I get the impression that you actually want no-one to use Windows.

    I have no problems with "Windows", if it would be at least a Windows on the usability level of Windows 7. W10 is still not it (unfortunately). Actually, each build gets worse. What's up with the gray borders in the latest build..

    The other ideological discussions happened long ago without you already.

  • These Windows 10 ​adware/prel​oader patches are packaged with important security updates. JUST WTF?!

    , Ray7 wrote

    @wastingtimewithforums:

    Your previous predictions bordered on clairvoyance. 

    But I'm just not seeing what the problem is here. 

    You say that Microsoft is going to force upgrades?

    No, I am pretty sure they won't do that. Too much legal trouble.

    But based on how they have behaved so far, I am really seeing the possibility that these nag-screens will live up to the term "nag".

    The ridiculous ways local accounts are hidden in the W10 setup, the dictatorial update client in W10 (no other OS that's used on the desktop has that behavior) the fact that these naggers are already deceptively labeled and described..

    The XML config file looks like it's more than a simple tray icon ("AnticipationUX").

    Given all this, my guess (emphasis) is that these things will come up periodically, even if you already pressed "no", and to really squelch them you need to put a registry key or uninstall them (hopefully they are not intermangled with security stuff by then!). This will be excused by Microsoft with the fact that enterprise versions of W7 don't get the notifications and for everyone else it's a "free update" (equating to service packs). If they persist with this, a backlash happens (xbone-style) and then they will grudgingly back down.

    Microsoft already did that with Windows 8! Let's keep this in mind. The notification about 8.1 was not removable! (at least not without registry hacks). As I said, Microsoft's "benefit of doubt"-score is beyond zero regarding these matters now.

    http://www.askvg.com/how-to-disable-update-to-windows-8-1-for-free-notification-in-windows-8-store/

    Windows 8 regularly shows a notification message on the screen which asks you to go to Windows Store to download Windows 8.1 for free as shown in following screenshot:

    Once you click on "Go to the Store" button, it allows you to update to Windows 8.1 for free via Windows Store.

    But there is a slight problem! Some users may not want to update their Windows 8 computer to Windows 8.1 for some reasons. In such situations, the regular prompts to get Windows 8.1 for free might become annoying to them. There is no option given to permanently disable this notification message and you regularly get them. 

    I have received many emails from readers asking a way to turn these notification messages off in Windows 8. So today in this tutorial, we are going to tell you few ways to disable "Update to Windows 8.1 for Free" notification message in Windows 8:

    • METHOD 1: Using Group Policy Editor (gpedit.msc)
    • METHOD 2: Using Registry Editor (regedit)
    • METHOD 3: Another Registry Editor Fix

      And it didn't stop there (I don't think they will go this far on W7 though):

      http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/how-to-stop-win-81-auto-install/9ff35130-beac-4a61-a1ed-523ff4f566ba

      http://www.askvg.com/how-to-stop-automatic-forced-upgrade-from-windows-8-to-windows-8-1/

      http://superuser.com/questions/887706/how-to-disable-auto-upgrade-from-windows-8-0-to-8-1

      http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/forcing-me-to-upgrade-to-81-is-wrong/7c1261c6-2c5d-4cdb-a99d-8dd4706e8a36

      http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_update/force-fed-windows-81-and-need-to-get-rid-if-asap/826071ef-1001-484f-8359-4f113368a568

      These links are really recommended reading for anyone still doubting the possibility that this could end up heavy-handed. ("I want to stay with Windows 8.0, but I'm given a band notification which requests to confirm upgrade to Windows 8.1. The notification can be postponed only twice, third time it forces the upgrade.")

    • These Windows 10 ​adware/prel​oader patches are packaged with important security updates. JUST WTF?!

      , evildictait​or wrote

      *snip*

      And there we get to the bottom of what this and all of the other threads are all about. It was never about Windows Update or Windows 10.

      No, this forum became tiresome, I really wanted to like Windows 10 (I was absent from this forum for almost six months and was pretty inactive in 2014). And then I tried W10 out..

      It still sucks. And the Windows Update client on it is a potential MAJOR PITA. Lots of the attitude that bombed W8 is still there.

      Inventing made-up grievances

      If all this stuff is invented, I am a wizard. My posts on this forum caused all the backlashes in real-life and on the internet? Humbling.

      Microsoft somehow personally victimizing you

      You're doing the same of what you accuse me of, just on a far more ridiculous level! I am personally victimizing you apparently, because you always took my posts as really srs business and spent an awful lot of time with me here. Not exactly balanced (or was that your substitute for your daily yoga exercises?). Not that these brawls weren't interesting...

      Don't pretend you are one with the universe or something.

    • These Windows 10 ​adware/prel​oader patches are packaged with important security updates. JUST WTF?!

      , Craig_​Matthews wrote

      Is the OP honestly upset because one  feature of the updated update mechanism allows end-users to decide if they want to get a free, non forced upgrade later on? 

      This update to Windows Update is bundled with KB2990214, which was the downloader for W10 and had apparently "nag"-components. That part has nothing to do with W7.

      Previously it only appeared when you executed the W10 downloader on a W7 machine.

      Now they apparently packaged together with "improvements in the overall Windows Update client". Maybe this particular KB will never display a notification, but maybe it will given its history.

      , Craig_​Matthews wrote

      Microsoft is offering Windows 10 as a free upgrade and they've been working to give people as smooth an upgrade experience as possible. That requires them to update the update mechanism so that this can happen. So what?

      My problem is that misleading descriptions and loopy KBs are not enough, now they are bundling these critters together with updates you can't really refuse.

      But I agree that everything has been said already at the moment in the last thread, there's not much to discuss about this topic until W10 appears. I admit it that I opened up a redudant thread this time. Sorry.

      7 hours ago, evildictaitor wrote

      No. OP is being disingenuously upset. Look at his list of posts. Every single one is just a barely disguised "Microsoft employees are evil and all of their products suck" post.

      Give it a rest, just because some of my "traditional allies" here don't agree with me this time on this one issue, don't think the consensus regarding Microsoft's course in the past three years is in any way positive (W8, bleached out Office, VS, killing of technet, SBS, SL, XNA, WPF, calling software investments "legacy", the price increases of their server stack, of office by killing family and 2-PC licensing, the xbone drama..)
       
      My predictions on these *-ups and how they would be received was spot-on.
       
      Now about these nag-screens, well, let's and wait see. They could end up pretty harmless, BUT if Windows 10 begins to fail in the market just like its predecessor did (high chance), I could see these things getting really annoying, in a last ditch effort to push W10 out.
       
      Just see how retardedly annoying they are hiding the local-account option in Windows 10 (even worse than in 8.1). You can't no longer type a Microsoft-account wrong and expect it to suggest to create a local account. Local accounts aren't even mentioned anymore! They are now burried under creating new Microsoft Account and then choosing "connect this PC later". Apple is the epitome of honesty in comparison. Their optionless WU client in 10 speaks volumes, too. Don't tell me all this hiding and deception is for the benefit of the users.
       
      Given all this, my trust in Microsoft's wisdom how to handle these naggers they are distributing is thus not exactly at a high point. Not letting them install is the best way to handle these critters.
       
      We are talking about a company which put a barely optimized phone GUI on desktop and laptop computers after all and thought it would be smooth sailing, and which seriously thought their heavy-handed telescreen-like appliance would cause no protest, despite the really obvious signs for that to happen.
       
      Microsoft's "benefit of doubt" highscore regarding these things is in the negative.
       
       
      the .xml file was pegged as "version 1.0," there's a good chance more such updates will follow.
    • These Windows 10 ​adware/prel​oader patches are packaged with important security updates. JUST WTF?!

      , ZippyV wrote

      Every software application shows a message when a new version is available. Why can't Windows do the same thing?

      Why can't they correctly label this stuff? What's up with the loopy worded KBs? The one above in the OP (KB2990214) is packaged together with an important update for WU as a whole, but had apparently "nag" components for W10 before (see the MS answers forum). It's very much possible that's still here, and the Windows guy on the technet link is very vague on that ("will go live at release [..] For client-based operating systems [W7], the update does have the plumbing for Windows 10 upgrade later").

      So even if you really don't want Windows 10 or nag screens about it at all, MS is really cornering you to install them all ("don't think you can skip it").

      That's beyond "notifications". Mislabeled updates, loopy worded KBs, packaged with security updates to actively hinder avoidance... The way the distribute this is akin to carefully crafted spam-mail to bypass the filters. If this is OK, then what the heck was the fuss about over adware/spam/pop-ups in the first place.

    • These Windows 10 ​adware/prel​oader patches are packaged with important security updates. JUST WTF?!

      , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

      The only WTF thing here is you trolling on Microsoft updating the Windows Update client. Microsoft has updated the Windows Update client before for upcoming Windows SPs and releases. This is no different.

      Not entirely sure this is completely unrelated to the nag-screen update. These WU clients are used as part of the Windows 10 upgrade scenarios which will go live at release. ..For client-based operating systems, the update does have the plumbing for Windows 10 upgrade later if you're interested

      The confirmed nag-screen update was referred to as an update for Windows Update too in the KB article.

      This update mentioned in the technet post in the OP (KB2990214) was also the downloader for the Windows 10 Technical Preview and apparently had a nag-feature.

      , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

      As for the "nag" screen I think that's actually a great idea. Microsoft is just making sure that people are aware of the availability of the free upgrade to W10.

      Yea, because unexpected messages popping up is just what users love. 

      , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

      Being that the upgrade will only be free for the first year it's beneficial to those non-techies who aren't paying attention to that fact.

      Well, aside from the issue that Windows 10 is really not that great, Popping-up windows or tray icons are a terrible thing to do such stunts.

      "Common users" recognize that usually immediately as nagware, especially on the desktop. How many times have techies advised people to be very suspicous of pop-ups and upgrade messages from freeware AV scanners and the like.

      The impression will not be different just because it's Microsoft this time.

      , DeathBy​VisualStudio wrote

      Had they not provided the nag screen people would complain that they didn't know the upgrade was free

      Yeah, like this was the only way. If they would have more faith in the product, if would be a great opportunity to truly show it.

      Open up a website, buy the Windows10.com domain. Put a HUGE "upgrade now!" button on it which links to the updater. Advertize the heck out it, huge "we have listened!" campaigns!

      Make the upgrade button on the website look like the start button, to close the circle against the Windows 8 outrage over button and start menu!

      Huge positivity campaign instead of concealed nag-screens!

    • These Windows 10 ​adware/prel​oader patches are packaged with important security updates. JUST WTF?!

      , kettch wrote

      *snip*

      What I see here is a popup that will appear and ask "Hey, there's a new version of Windows out, it's a free upgrade if you want. Do you want to perform the upgrade, it will take about an hour. Click <here> to find out more about Windows 10. [Yes] [No] [   ] Don't ask me again."

      Even if it asks you only once, this is a nag-screen already, given how these things are distributed (mislabeled, loopy worded KBs, packaged with security updates, in important category etc.)

      AV companies categorize software as PUPs for less transgressions!

      If these updates would be in the optional and clearly labeled (at the very least this!), fine. How can anyone have a problem with this requirement?

      Scamware-like tactics are fine when the company is big enough?

    • These Windows 10 ​adware/prel​oader patches are packaged with important security updates. JUST WTF?!

      , kettch wrote

      Do you have any proof whatsoever of what is actually the functional result of these updates, or are you just making things up?

      So tell me what this config file looks like according to you:


      The end result is a nag-screen, pretty obvious. If these updates would be optional and clearly labeled, fine. But the way they are packaging and distributing them is disgusting (mislabeled, loopy worded KBs, packaged with security updates, in important category etc.). Pure deceit and now even coercion.

      AV companies categorize software as PUPs for less transgressions.

      Quite the faith they have in Windows 10, eh? Well I don't blame them: This thing still sucks indeed. It's ridiculous to what an extend they are going to push that sorry thing instead of finally fixing Windows. Come on MS, a button somewhere in the taskbar that completely switches between metro and desktop, without mangling both worlds, isn't that hard. Time to detox Windows from Frankensteinitis instead of going even the scamware route to push these monsters out.