posted by ChrisStepaniuk

no one had the guts to just stop it and cut the losses early.

sad.

posted by figuerres

Windows Vista includes IIS 7 and Windows 7 is came with IIS 7.5

posted by KAE

posted by staceyw

I do like my iPhone, but I really really really want to see what the consumer device for WP7 will shape up to be.  So, like everyone else, I'm waiting...

posted by ChrisStepaniuk

posted by ChrisStepaniuk

it spent time and money on something that split the resources at MS into two groups at a time when they needed to get focus and get back into the market.

MS is way behind in the phone market and had both the need to have good tech *AND* good pr / image.

if i were a consumer or a phone company or a hardware oem i would look at this and at the history and be very doubtfull that MS has a clue or that ms will ever get this right.

that is *NOT* the kind of thing they need right now but i think this is exacly what they have done.

for most consumers it may seem that the next phone is a last minute effort to get back in the game, if they saw kin that is...

just so many ways this has bad spin on how ms does things.....

I can just imagine the ad campains that Apple and others can run if they want to based on this ....

if i worked for MS i would want to duck and hide when it comes up in any conversations....

posted by figuerres

Kin was just another in a long line of failures by Microsoft in the critical mobile space.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/02/life-and-death-of-microsoft-kin-the-inside-story/

Windows Phone 7 is a hail mary pass, Microsoft will need a miracle or they will be out of the mobile business by 2011.  Ballmer should have been forced out as CEO when he handed the market over without even a fight.

Microsoft is correct to fix the developer experience on the phone, the competition has that truly wrong.  But developer experience alone cannot combat a huge market share and loyalty advantage.

posted by jlomax

It's a shame, I think MS just brought a product to market too soon. Like the Tablet, it was great but came out years too early. The KIN with constant cloud syncing is probably what all phones will do in a few years, but data is still too expensive for it to work at the moment.

posted by IRB

posted by ecofriend

posted by dtower

The one thing must happen sooner before later (i.e. Christmas) is a real Windows Phone 7 on the market.  I won't pretend to know anything about the interworkings of that group.  But the longer they wait, the longer the competition has time to enforce their brand.  If they want back in the consumer game... and by proxy the business users, have your partners release the darn phone.

I work with people who are given the choice now between iPhone and BlackBerry.  I know that compared to BlackBerry, iPhone can't hold a candle, and I can't ignore the entire history of Windows Mobile, but I can say that new consumers, ones who were born in the 90s don't remember it, because they weren't around, all they see are iPhones, Androids and Blackberries, not Windows Mobile.

posted by ChrisStepaniuk

I have shown people parts of Explorer in Windows 7, like filtering and sorting, that were in Vista, and they were amazed, they told me they would've never known, if I, (a software developer) hadn't shown them.

In addition, part Windows 7's huge success is that it had a large public beta.  I'm seeing that trend from Microsoft.  Even Office 2010 had a huge beta program.  Get the app into the hands of the people.  The one part where Microsoft really has trouble is pricing.  Seriously, you can't tell me that if Vista was priced as a $50 upgrade, people wouldn't have forgiven its problems.

And yes, Microsoft may get the developer experience with Windows Phone correct, but if no one buys the darn thing, it doesn't matter.  Consumers have to want it, they have to line up and lust over it, and camp outsides stores for it.  I've heard people talk on the train that if they found an iPad they'd keep it, they wouldn't return it.  I want that type of brand power for Microsoft.

iPhone development is a different story, but the user experience is so great, that developers bend over backwards to write code for it, not matter how foreign Objective-C is.  And the funny part, Apple hasn't changed their platform for anyone, you must change for it, that's also brand power.

posted by ChrisStepaniuk

RE: IIS SKUs, check your facts guys!

IIS6 shipped with Windows Server 2003 only.

IIS7 shipped with Vista and Windows Server 2008.

IIS7.5 shipped with Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2

And the reasons for IIS Express Edition aside from older versions of Windows only having old versions of IIS on them is that to debug against an app running under IIS you have to run VS as administrator, which bothers some people. Also, only pro (or ultimate in the case of Vista) versions of Windows had IIS as an installable component. IIS Express will be available everywhere which is pretty sweet IMO.

posted by rhm

another is that i have seen a few differences in how sites work with the URL the dev server uses a different root path and that can mess up some things as in

1234:/name/default.aspx

or

1234:/default.aspx

small things like that can create some fun when you deploy and your stuff breaks.

posted by figuerres

posted by ChrisStepaniuk

posted by LD