Ping: Episode 1

Is this a Channel 10 video that got posted here by mistake?

Jim Allchin- You’re Leavin’. I wasn’t expecting to such an emotional song from going to his site. Who ever has left him, I hope he is ok. It’s got an interesting sound to the song. The vocals have some kind of reverb that makes it sound a little ‘electronic’.

This belongs on Channel 10 and please keep Max away from Channel 9.

What is wrong with Max being here? C9 used to be much more than just development focused.

I think you are mistaking your audience entirely. Not only do you undershoot the audience in terms of actual content, but the "attitude" of the video is totally out of whack. I was honestly asking myself as well if this was a C10 video or not. 

Huh, really? I have watched almost the entire library of video. Sure, back then when Scoble was here, it was a bit more light-hearted. While Charles also back then made excellent technical stuff, there was a nice balance. I'm not saying there's not today. But the face of C9 has NOT changed a lot.

C9 was consumered focused as well as developer focused...

Well I'd watch it again, on here or 10.

I like it! It's a nice break from the dry 45 mins developers interviews. I really enjoyed it.

But, you know what? I think Laura would be the perfect person to do some "technical" interviews. I mean have Laura at some technologies and have her take at them. Not that she's not technical, but I remember when Scoble did the technical interviews, he really added to them w/ his perspective.

No MTV-cut transitions, please. I think you two provide enough energy that you don't need that gimmick. Plus, those transitions are annoying!

Max, lose the sticks! I found myself dodging them for the safety of my eyes! And quit picking on Laura

Bottom line, more Ping!

Oh, BTW, "ping" means this in the following order: 1) IM   2) Text msg   3) e-mail

In that case, a paradigm shift is needed. 

Funny you should mention you wanting to do different kind of music while I was writing up my post.

Show Idea:

I was thinking of this when I saw these "I'm a PC (The Rookies)" ads...

Kylie, Age 4 1/2


Alexa, Age 7


All I could think of is a diva fight between Kylie and Alexa.

Kylie: (Mockingly) I'm a PC and I'm 7 years old... Ohhh that's great, grandma!

Haha!

It was more than just developer focused but the level was still higher than your show. It looked like Max didn't do anything to prepare for the show except for bringing his drumsticks.
- You don't come to Channel 9 telling us what a netbook is when we had technical videos about these more than a year ago.
- The little girl in the commercial or Jim playing music has already been posted in the Coffeehouse.
- Everyone interested in the beta of Windows 7 had the chance to download it for the past 2 months.
- Talking about Mix? We already have videos of Mike Swanson and other interesting people from Mix.

And please don't start about "sparking" interaction because I haven't seen any interaction in the past from you or Tina on Channel 10.
Please go back to Channel 10, it's dying. The only things I see now are tips from Sarah and every time I click on the image thinking it's a video but it's just a lame screenshot.

Expand your minds, guys. Give the show some time before poopooing on it. I think it will grow on you. Plus... If you don't like it, skip that channel, just like a TV

But isn't that the whole point of a pilot? The post even asks for constructive criticism. Am I then supposed to sit back and watch a bad idea falling to the ground and compromise the integrity of C9 as a developer community? I don't think so.

"compromise the integrity of C9"

C'mon now...

Well Max. Here's the thing.

Here is what the dictionary says about integrity1 the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness 2 the state of being whole and undivided 

C'mon now, Chad. We're not talking about whether Mother Theresa should go to heaven here.

Casual conversation with developers at microsoft. It seems to be what you are trying to do, only on a slightly different level.

How about hell? That seems more appropriate. 

I think you're just blowing things out of proportion (and I know blowing things out of proportion).

This time there is a reason for it.

um, so did any one ells go to Jim Allchin web site?

Seriously, I like the name ping. I think having different people on the show is a good suggestion. It would also be interesting to get Lara’s take on a technical interview. With that said, it’s a little to early for me to make a defining call on the show.

Everyone else seems to be focused on the content and whether it fits into their view of what C9 is or is not, I'd like to comment on the quality of the video and how it was almost unwatchable for me. I downloaded the WMV (High) video "PING01_2MB_ch9.wmv" and the interlacing started to give me a headache, it was terrible. Every movement showing lots of breakup, its very hard on the eyes.

Please use a progressive capture or run the video through a de-interlacing step at least, the videos from Charles' interviews does not suffer from this problem.

Example... (can you tell she's holding a mic?)

As Zippy pointed out the Kylie video was posted here on Channel9 Feb 8th and Rocken Jim had a thread begining on Feb 12th, yet the two of you say with smiles on your faces that  you come to Channel9 everyday.

Placing ping on C9 is a clear admision that on10 has failed, there are teenagers on YouTube with more talent and viewers.

Oh god, it's like Endemol started making programs for C9

What was it you said about Twitter?

How can someone who plays a celebrity on the Internet have only 151 Followers?

gd it paul, this is why nobody likes you

....err.. ok.. where to start..

lets go about some metafeedback first:) do you really want feedback on this..? from lauras and parially charleses (but to a much smaller degree) you seem to have made the decision that ping is a 'great' show and that its here to stay
you're really sending out mixed messages..
when chadk gives you feedback lauras response is:
"Well...Channel 9 is expanding"
to me, thats pretty much saying: "well.. unless you're not you like my show, i dont want to hear it" and thats just not cool.

also, charles, you make a comment that
"Does this mean that nobody else can make content for Channel 9?"
well, no, but this is not about the person, its about the content.  (actually for me its a bout the hosts a littlebit, but more on that later)
does cnn have to broadcast news all the time? does espn have to be all sports shows? no.. but you dont watch espn to get economical analysies, you dont watch cnn to get scoop on the latest music videos. channels have a purpose and a target audience.. the target audience of c9 are developers who want the latest information relevant to what they do/are interested in. there is no piece of information that isnt at least several weeks old in this show..

also, about the show.. to me, this show comes of as a mtv-whannabe-technical-but-not-so-much-that-anyone-thinks-we-are-geeks kind of show.. i dont know it its meant to be a spoof of it self or if you actually think you're cool with those smash cuts of dancing, but it aint cool and it aint funny..

its like you're embarresed about beeing  technical, afraid beeing called "geeks" and you make a huge effort to appear cool. for me laura is the most obvious example of this.. you(laura) seem to make every effort to not be labled as a geek and not know "too much" about the technical stuff. 

you come of as condesending to me espesially when you talk to devs, not only in this show but in other coverage of mix and pdc and such. its almost like you think you're better than them because they're nerds and you're not. thats the image you protray to me anyway [and no i dont know laura at all, my oppinion is based of her appearances on c9/10 and may be completly wrong when it comes to her actual personality]

dont get me wrong, image is an imporant part of marketing. but the people who come here are not into that kind of marketing.. id, explect this kind of thing in a roll-over flash ad on facebook or myspace, not on channel 9

infact, thats my main problem with this. its marketing. its even got a commecial in it. what makes c9 so great is that its -free- of marketing.. its even in the "manifest" of channel9.. you are ofcourse free to post what you like, but this is a step in the wrong direction im afraid..

what would i like instead? more channel9 interviews. they are the ones that make channel9 great.
i quote charles: "[..] focused pretty heavily on the How, What and Why (Going Deep, etc) with the Who being implicit" thats exactly what i want that's what makes channel9 unique. thats what makes c9 great people are made interesting by what the create imo, not the other way around 
other interviewers are fine, but im talking about the channel9 format conversation. not pseudo interviews with prewritten awnsers/overrides by the interviewer.
bottom line, if it aint broken, dont fix it. and channel9 is not broken

Well I hope Laura just made a generous contribution to the Ohio Special Olympics

Laura and Max have been on Microsoft's payroll for quite some time, and this is the best they can do ?

 How much share holder value  was invested in the production of ping?

Minh nice?

As I post this no one has been the first to comment on ping on10 . 

Charles you need to read this thread,

A show about email is a lame idea, there are better ways to communicate  today, try Twitter.

Eagle

Stop being so mean for a moment and give a constructive critique.

Minh nice?

What? I'm the nicest person I know!

It is true, not all developers are nice. Many have difficulty with their emotions. Often times they are off putting, insensitive, and smelling of cheese wiz.

 You Can't actually be offended by a new show that doesn't replace anything on what would formally be known as some kind of 'schedule here'.  Laura's very absorbent of the geek world, whole heartedly, and the rock and roll shots that are making you so nervous are seemingly genuine adherence to her rocking beliefs. This is a show that takes advice and is interchangeable and versatile so stop acting put down by it and let it slide for future evolution and focus.

Find it bizarre that Tina can claim this was made for Channel 9 when she's interviewing everyone with a microphone that's carrying the Channel 10 logo!

Drumsticks - seriously?

Charles, I'm still wondering exactly what audience you are trying to address. Where are you trying to take C9?

wooow.... were you guys nervous or something? too much coffee? too much sugar? show could become interesting I guess, but... seriously... duude... slow down people just a notch. coming home from work, sitting down with some interesting videos, I would like to stress down with some light and interesting geeky stuff. But aaaaaaaaaaa Anyways, good luck with the show. (Hope you can tone down the crazy hyperness just a tad though )

EDIT: Also, I'm pretty new here, so I don't really have a clue what ch8 or 9 or 10 or whatever is really all about. but regardless of what you were trying to do, to who and where: I find it the same as I do with many other shows, like on discovery channel for example. interesting with lots of potential. But kind of ruined because of too hyper active style, noisy stressy interludes, etc.

Hello,

I don't mean to provide too much negative feedback, but I agree with most people here, you've completely missed your audience.  The audience is the developer, not the YTV generation.  Are you and Max developers?  Or are you guys VJ's?  I don't feel that you guys took this site audience seriously.  I actually feel you guys are trying too hard to be ironic.

This whole video seemed like a bad case of Tarzan Dan from YTV.

I come to channel 9 as one of the daily sites I visit. I am amazed by how much content that gets put up on the site. There is a new video almost every single day. That amount of content is unprecedented. I visit Blizzard.com  site a lot as well. a couple of my fav sites. But they don’t put near as much new content up on their site. they still have valentines up on their site. I like watching episodes on channel 9. Some of my favorite videos are those of Bill Hill and those that deal with MS personalities. I also like behind the code. I do have a couple least favorites. But it’s not enough to make me rant and rave. I focus on what I like and leave what I don’t like to others to enjoy.

It WAS quite cheesy (mostly because of the music and the editing) but the information was relevant to C9. Max and Laura are also fine as hosts, just don't try SO hard to be "wild and crazy guys" all the time.
Ping is like the less geeky and faster paced version of what Dan and Brian do but it would still fit C9 better if it was a tad less goofy and more in the style of systm on revision 3.

So we're going to get an episode 2 of a useless  video show on email, didn't you get the memo?

All around the world people are losing their jobs, Banks are failing, homes are in foreclosure and bread lines can't be far off.
 
Does Microsoft's DPE Team really have endless resources to plow into a frivolous video show.?

thats great to hear

you mention branching out channel 9 to reach a wider audience.
the thing is i thought channel8 and ten where branchouts from c9 (maybe it was the other way around, i dont wanna start a chicken-and-egg discussion here) the point is that they are diffrent and there's nothing wrong with at. i dont think this is a show for c9.. c9 is about developers(develeopers, developers) jaoo and lang.net are most definatly developer related. talking about emails is not
The target audience for ping, who ever that is, is not here imo, but that doesnt mean there isnt an audience somewhere else, not all comments have been negative 

you could air all your content from edge, 8,9 and 10 on a single site but just as there are diffrent sections of a newspaper, you dont because you want people to find what they are interested in. Having ping on channel 9 istead of 8 or 10 will cause less people to see it because i think most niners will think its too light on the tech stuff and the people who are interested in it wont visit c9 because its the 'developer channel/section'. everyone sorta looses in that case why not have it on 8 or 10 and keep evolving those sites to cater to their target audiences?

what i would like to see is a tv-guide of sorts for all the channels (just like a regular tv guide)
federated rss feeds would also be great, like beeing able to select the shows  or topics you're interested in

even now im not really sure who exactly 8 and 10 are target at, maybe thats what we need to make more clear, imo each channel should preserve their identity but there could also be more linking between the sites, more "oh btw, if you want more/less techy take on this, check out c9/c10" pleasing everyone is almost always impossible and i dont think channel9 is an exception to this

all that beeing said, i do not think c9 should stop trying new ideas. having ping here was an experiment and thats great, just as we remember that experiments are allowed to have less favorable outcomes some times that goes for some of the commenters here as well (im looking at you eagle)

Well, the show's email basis has, I would imagine, a wide range of possibilities with the inclusion of developement subjects in good probability.

Calling someone names is a sure sign of not listening

An honest assessment is the best help anyone will ever give you

I'm sure Jeff will be throwing good money after bad by paying for links and rewarding bloggers who give the show a good review. 

I wonder how much money I have to throw at Charles for banning you.

Sure, I agree.  I'd like to elaborate on my previous comment, and state for the record why I come back.  Maybe it will be helpful to others, maybe not, but at least I can share my point of view.

I like the Developer-Geek centric focus of this site.  That is why I come back.  I don't come back because it's a silly site; I come back because it puts a human face on Microsoft.  I come back because it’s a place to get your geek on.  It’s a place where some of the smartest people I’ve ever heard are able to distill their ideas to people with lesser amounts of experience and knowledge and I understand it! (side note, I finally applied at Microsoft because a video detailed how to do it!)

I come back for shows like the WM_IN series.  I have sometimes watched those videos over and over on my lunch break.  Videos about Rebecca Norlander (XP SP2), The Goth - Jillian Venters (Editor), Emma Williams (Intentional Engineering), and Mai-lan Tomsen Bukovec (IIS), are awesome (I didn't even have to look those names up to spell them, that's how many times I’ve watched those videos).  I wish WM_IN had a new post each week, or even each day.  Whenever I see a new post, I just download the HQ version immediately.  I find it one of the most interesting shows on C9.  I watch these because they are inspiring and interesting.

Ok, now that I’ve expressed whey I come back; let me offer an constructive alternative view point sans mudslinging.  Charles, Max, and Laura, you did a good job on the first attempt (you did, most of us here I bet don’t know how to produce video).  It didn't go over well (unfortunately), but you threw out exactly what you wanted; it didn't stick, so try again.

As for those who are slamming Charles and Laura for Microsoft payroll, wow, talk about a kick in between the legs.  Everyone who creates content for Channel9 does have a vested interest to keep the site alive, but more importantly Channel9 was created for us.  If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t come back for more.  If it was a marketing site, this conversation wouldn’t be happening (or even be allowed).    Everyone complains that Microsoft isn't transparent enough, and you know what, we get more info from Microsoft than any Apple fans get from Steve Jobs.  For all we know, Apple only has one employee, Steve.  When have you ever been able to download videos from Apple’s conferences without paying for the content?  If there is a site, please point me to it?

If I could make a suggestion, why not talk about what floats around Microsoft's inboxes?  What do you receive for email?  Is it hate mail, is it love mail, does Microsoft read **ALL** feedback they receive?  Where exactly does the mail we send go?  If I email you Charles, or Laura, or even Brad Abrams, Scott Guthrie, or even Steve Sinofsky, does it pop in their inbox, is it filtered, what happens to it? Where does the feedback we provide when we click "Send Feedback" in Windows 7 go?  Who monitors it?  Or, if we have a suggestion, found a bug, fixed a bug, etc, who do we contact?  It sometimes I email Carl Franklin at DotNetRocks, because I feel I don’t know who I’m supposed to contact when a site was down.  I’ve emailed Dan Fernandez when the Passport service for C9 was down a few days ago.  I’ve even looked on Google Maps and found the 425 number for Microsft and called that because I didn’t know how to contact.  I know I digress, but I’ve been there, lost.  I think answering those questions would be great start.

Cheers!

Chris

Hi guys

I am brand new to Channel 9.  Charles i would like to say a big well done, i thought the show was a nice break from the normal serious videos that i watch on here.  don't get me wrong, i love the serious ones, but it is nice to have a light hearted vid on here now and again.  I understand what eagle and others are saying, but i feel a little light hearted entertainment in the MS field is a good thing.  To be honest, i was working on a Visual C++ code that wasn't working and starting to do my head in, i watched that video which totally took my mind off of it, went back after and saw the fault straight away.  therefore it was a nice distraction.

I would say a few things though that i did not really like.

1.   Please can you be a bit more in-depth with the topics, as others point out, we know more than the average
2    Be fun, be chatty, but please less head banging, it did put me off a bit

All in all guys, it was a good start.  Look at the end of the day, it made me favourite the site, that is a good thing in my opinion.. 

Keep it up.  When is the next episode?

Yeah, the show isn't really for me, I guess. I'm very boring, though. I did find it kind of odd that the show already has higher production values than This Week on C9... which I think is a pretty popular part of C9. I mean, there's more than one camera angle here, for starters.

Rather than changing the show or C9's format, though, can't we just get rid of Eagle instead? I mean, damn.

 I'm just gonna quote Minh, as I was literally gonna say the exact same things having just watched this first episode... plenty of buzz in the show, and I think its fine being shown on c9 -bit of variety..  only thing to add is that I think you need a better studio background/setup... that red lighting on the curtain just looks similar to c9 weekly doesn't go with the whole green 'ping', black bg style imo

-----
"No MTV-cut transitions, please. I think you two provide enough energy that you don't need that gimmick. Plus, those transitions are annoying!
Max, lose the sticks! I found myself dodging them for the safety of my eyes! And quit picking on Laura

Bottom line, more Ping!

Oh, BTW, "ping" means this in the following order: 1) IM   2) Text msg   3) e-mail"

Wow - Tough crowd and I always thought the root definition of PING was that of a Packet Internet Groper...............

Anyhoo - as this was a first episode and there has been a myriad of feedback, I'll reserve judgement until I've seen a couple more

Change is a good thing and without challenging the "norm" we'd still be living in caves hunting with rocks, lighten up folks, and that includes developers

Its monday... where is the next episode?

Well, I've never been to Channel 9 before, and I came to watch this video, if that's a useable data point.  Not a developer, but I am in IT - I'm a Systems Analyst.

I'd watch it again, it seemed interesting.  Thought the rock-n-roll transitions were a bit frenetic, but whatever.  I'd think there'd be an audience for this kind of show, covering topics of interest to developers that aren't necessarily code-related.  Get some folks on - the "people behind the code" that folks keep talking about, get their snippets of input on each of the topics, instead of it being all Laura and Max all the time.

The comments on here are hilarious.  I GET that you're all developers.  Does that mean you don't talk about anything other than code?  I think the intent here is to cover the kind of topics you're probably talking about at the watercooler that week...but some of these folks seem to be shouting "NO!  If it's not code related, you're wasting my time!  I'm not programmed for social interaction of any kind!"  Sheesh.

And thanks for linking Laura's twitter.

This show seems to be too much of a "marketing pitch" than what we are used to on C9. In my opinion this isn't the content I'm looking for on C9.

I subscribe to the feeds for both Channel 9 and Channel 10, so I didn't mind this being on Channel 9 as others apparently did. However, Channel 9 has been branded to me as the hard-core technical videos, whereas, Channel 10 is the lighter, product/consumer side videos. This seems to be more of the latter. I watch Channel 10 for a mental break, and Channel 9 to challenge myself to learn more depth in my field.