Office UI - New Licensing Story
- Posted: Nov 21, 2006 at 12:48 PM
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This is an interesting video for Channel 9.
As many geeks know, the Office team at Microsoft is the team that typically sets the standard for UIs throughout our company, and then the industry beyond. It's where the experimentation takes place. It's like the Area 51 of UI workshops.
In this video, we get to learn about new licensing rules surrounding the Office UI elements. In the past, developers were confused as to how far they could go when it came to using Office-like UIs in their apps. The goal of the new licensing is to clear that up.
We also chatted a bit about Office and the way they had to work to innovate. As applications become more complex, they're putting a real strain on the interface elements we're all used to. The team has been working hard to come up with new ways of working with these complex apps. The "Ribbon" control is one such innovation.
Finally, there's a lawyer in this video. If you've ever wanted to see an interview with a Microsoft lawyer, this is your chance
Fun stuff.
As many geeks know, the Office team at Microsoft is the team that typically sets the standard for UIs throughout our company, and then the industry beyond. It's where the experimentation takes place. It's like the Area 51 of UI workshops.
In this video, we get to learn about new licensing rules surrounding the Office UI elements. In the past, developers were confused as to how far they could go when it came to using Office-like UIs in their apps. The goal of the new licensing is to clear that up.
We also chatted a bit about Office and the way they had to work to innovate. As applications become more complex, they're putting a real strain on the interface elements we're all used to. The team has been working hard to come up with new ways of working with these complex apps. The "Ribbon" control is one such innovation.
Finally, there's a lawyer in this video. If you've ever wanted to see an interview with a Microsoft lawyer, this is your chance
Fun stuff.
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Please make it part of the standard set of controls
Office UI Licensing Partners
90Degree Software
Attachmate
Falafel Software, Inc.
DevComponents LLC
Developer Express
ILOG, Inc.
Infragistics, Inc.
Syncfusion Inc.
Telerik Corp.
Xceed
Objective Computing
ABB
MindJet
Serena Software
DivElements
And it would seem that OpenOffice can't use the ribbon interface. I have nothing against OO but it makes me feel good that they can't just rip off the interface like with previous versions.
Edit: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/office/aa973809.aspx -- coming soon...
Not using the ribbon UI is one of the major selling points of OpenOffice right now.
Everyone i have shown loves how much easier the interface is to use, and that's from my technical friends to my mum....
Perhaps you could outline the problems with it so as to provide some feedback for the office team.
Great to see Jensen, having had your RSS feed in my Outlook 2007 Beta for the past few months.
Looking forward to my full production version of O2K7.
Ciao
Chas
I'm curious to know if the royalty-free license will extend once the ribbon UI is implemented across other Microsoft products (e.g, Dynamics). It makes sense to protect the Office competition, but if I put the ribbon in a CRM product will I lose the license if it competes with another Microsoft product with the ribbon in it?
What a bunch of BS. Microsoft can no more license the look and feel of thier UI than Ford can license the look and feel of the GT. You can license the icons, you can license the code; you can't simply state this layout belongs to me and anyone who wants this layout needs my license.
For about 10k I can by a 3rd party shell to fit on a car chasis that will make my car look like a Ford GT. I have no love for the Open Office crowd, but I hope to God they release a ribbon just to challenge you guys on this draconian and absurd move.
I'm a big Microsoft fan, but this is nonsense.
Paul
IIRC, yes you can. Apple does it, MS does it, you can do it.
It sounded like all they would need to do is sign the license and implement it per the specs. Not sure how it plays with their existing license.
You are just flat wrong dude. You can license code. You can license copy. You can license icons. You can license all kinds of things that are tangible. You can't simply say 'blue tabs belong to me' so sign my license if you want blue tabs.
The whole program is designed to license the document describing the design guildelines. This is fine. Microsoft can license thier guidelines all day long. That doesn't preclude me from making a ribbon like control that looks, feels and operates exactly like the ribbon found in office. By agreeing to the guildelines, I would put myself on the legal bubble with Microsoft. I am free to not license the guidelines and build ribbons till I'm blue in the face so long as my code doesn't violate any patent or copyright held by Microsoft.
It sounds like Microsoft is trying to say "we own anything that looks or feels like a Ribbon" which they can't do. If you want to make a ribbon go ahead. If you want to make a ribbon and put it onto a word processor that you wrote go ahead. Unless you infringing on Microsoft patents or thier copyright you are free to do that.
Just like these guys do with the Ford GT.
http://www.erareplicas.com/gt/gt.htm
Microsoft is framing the licensing of some guildelines as if that carries the same weight as licensing the actual IP (the code, copy and art used in a ribbon). It doesn't.
How much is it costing?It's free! Sounds very cool to give us this stuff. Should be included in Visual Studio! Really. Everybody should have the right to use the controls. There is so much thirth party recreating all the controls from Microsoft, but they always feel different. Would be great, if we could get more such controls, also from Vista!For example the search box that is used in Vista! That would be great stuff.
How is this any worse than Apple patenting the "genie effect"?
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=680
Notice that pyramid of black cubes in the video on Jensen's desk?
I'm willing to bet that those represent patents on the ribbon interface. I wouldn't be surprised if all but one or two are for various aspects of the ribbon. The ribbon is definitely a patentable idea, so it makes sense that MSFT owns IP on this.
I am no lawyer, but a simple search turns up many things that seem to counter what you are saying. Speaking of "Tabs", Adobe already has that one. By my read, if you make a ribbon bar "virtually identical" to MS's, that could be a patent violation (if they have one). And, imo, it is different enouph from anything before, that they would win (and the fact they have a million layers). But the point seems mute, because they are giving everyone an out to avoid all the madness.
- Adobe Tab patent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_%28GUI%29
- Patents on GUIs: http://www.cptech.org/ip/business/software/gui.html
- http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/abstracts/Abstracts.html
- http://www.macobserver.com/columns/devilsadvocate/2004/20030513.shtml
- Apple patent on Spring-Folders
- TrueType font hinting.
- See "The Virtual Identity Standard" here: http://law.richmond.edu/jolt/v1i1/myers.html
- Apple Stacks (i.e. piles) http://homepage.mac.com/rdas7/stacks.html
good? bad? i tend to think the latter is true.
a short an inacurate post.. but these are my first sentiments towards this issue.. it just looks weird to customers.
Jensen Harris (the GPM in this video) has what I consider one of the best blogs out there. He covers the full life of the Ribbon, with excellent explanations of the features, and why they came about. Check it out here,
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/default.aspx
For new readers of his blog, he recently posted an "index" of his posts,
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archive/2006/11/10/the-office-2007-ui-bible.aspx
regarding the UI, would you think I would have to licence our Web App, its based on the Office UI, not eact but close
here are some shots.
http://www.y2media.co.uk/images/files/brandvu1.jpg
http://www.y2media.co.uk/images/files/brandvu2.jpg
any thoughts on licencing would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Wow, I can't believe that I have to sign a seperate legal agreement with MS even when I use design guideline compliant controls from a third party like Dotnetbar. Free agreement or not, intentional or not, this says loud and clear MS self-interests are more important than it's customers and that we can't be trusted.
What's interesting is that you could get close to the office 2007 ribbon using existing controls available in most all GUI's. The idea that Microsoft somehow now owns tabbed groups of toolbar buttons with the name "ribbon" is silly. I've done tabbed groups of toolbar image/text buttons numerous times in the past in my own applications. This is NOT a new invention. 3D Studio Max has had tabbed toolbars for a long time. There are some additional frill features that Office 2007 ribbon has, like collapsing, scaling, etc, but that once again can be quickly added to controls already in the wild. What you won't get easily though, is the exact look and feel of the office 2007 ribbon, but that will probably not be that important in competing products like OpenOffice. There is no reason why OpenOffice couldn't implement tabbed toolbars with their own look, without being accused of copying the ribbon control, because there was already prior art for tabbed toolbars. I look forward to hearing who it is Microsoft thinks they can prosecute for doing something similiar, but not "exactly" like the "new" ribbon control. [6]
> sounds like Microsoft is trying to say "we own anything that looks or feels like a Ribbon" which they can't do
I agree. The ribbon looks and functions alot like a tabbed toolbar, which was clearly implemented prior. MS did not invent this concept, they, as usual, enhanced prior art and then claimed it as their own. On top of that they turn around and discourage others from doing the same with the ribbon control. In the video they actually talk about not allowing others to "enhance" the Office 2007 controls. Say what? MS can improve upon what others have come up with, but we can't improve upon what MS has came up with? Do as MS says, not as they do? That sound fair? Not to me.
Also, this could be fun for reference:
http://daringfireball.net/2006/12/microsoft_workgroup_manager_icon
BTW. Nice UI on your CMS!
Since the license is free, and the only things you really have to agree with are (roughly speaking):
1. you aren't directly competing with Office 2007 products and
2. if you're going to use this UI, do a good job of it.
it seems quite reasonable.
If you want to make money cloning Office 2007, you'll have to take the risk that Microsoft will attempt to enforce its IP rights. If, as some have argued, this is prior art and invalid, you'll have a good argument. On the other hand, if you're just using the Office 2007 to make your application look cool and seem to be part of the Office suite, Microsoft has given you a way to do with without running the risk of violating their IP.
The license is voluntary. Your position without signing it is exactly the same as it would have been if Microsoft never offered the program. The only thing the program does (and I, for one, appreciate it) is make it safe to use that UI without fear that you are violating Microsoft's IP. I suspect there are many companies out there who's legal departments have told them they can't use that UI for fear of lawsuits. This gives those companies a way to do so safely.
I hope that fancier versions of tabbed toolbars with some style changes like gradient colors, collapsing, etc, are not what MS thinks they can go after. If Open Office adds distinct looking tabbed toolbars I certainly hope MS doesn't attempt to claim ownership of this concept.
Bottom line is MS is an intimidating enough force, and MS Office market penetration is deep enough, to get most everyone to sign the Office 2007 UI agreement. It has in large part become a me-too affair.
It would be funny to buy a licence for placing 'File' in there.
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