Weaning myself away from Windows? | The Coffeehouse

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

I know considering some of my post some people would say I'm just throwing this out there to provoke a fight...however I'm not.

I love Windows, for the most part it does everything that I need to and everything I want it to. I've been using computers since I was 8 (I'm 25 now) and have used everything from 3.0 and up (Even vista). However now I see myself looking at my monitor and staring because I can't think of anything to do OR something that I can't do if needed.

That being said I've been thinking that I spend too much idle time just thinking of stuff to do to keep my computer and me occupied. I've used Linux and that just frustrates me because if I have to do something that requires Windows then I really can't without going through a huge mess.

But I have a Mac at home. It can do everything that I'd like and everything that I need BUT not enough to cause me to stare at it mindlessly because I want to just play around. Something that will let me do what I want and a little more, but not something that will suck me in and cause me to lose sleep.

I was just wondering if anyone here has ever "switched" and came back and maybe some of the things that they have found out from doing so OR anyone that has thought about it and then pulled out at the last minute? I have my PC so if I NEED to do something Windows related I can always VNC into it...just I'm kinda flaking and looking for motivation.

Anyone?

Harlequin
http://twitter.com/TrueHarlequin

Just do a dual-boot and put another OS on your computer if you want another OS to play around with.

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

It's not a matter of playing around. I've used all three OS's exclusively at different times. However I'm just noticing I keep comming back to Windows which seems to have me trapped Tongue Out

Cairo
I want my waffle sundae, give me my carbs!

I bought a Powerbook in 2003. It sat on a table in my office, primarily, while I used my Windows machine. Over a few months, I got used to how the Mac does things, and used it more and more. One day, I switched the Mac to my desk and the PC to the table. A while later, I discovered that I turned the PC on only to play Rise of Nations. Once I tired of that game, I didn't turn the PC on for months at a time.

I turned it on crecently to upgrade the Linux partition to Fedora Core 4. Then I turned it back off.

I use Windows at work all day, but as it turns out, I have no need for Windows at home. I use my XBox more than my PC.

I never made a concious choice to "ditch Windows" and "just do everything with the Mac (no matter how awkward)". I just found myself not needing Windows.

When I have to interact with the office from home, I use the Exchange webmail, and RDC into servers and my desktop. I use MS-Office 2004 on the Mac, and OmniGraffle for diagrams (no Visio for the Mac; as it happens I like Omnigraffle better anyway. Just wish it had more stencils).

Have you opened XCode on the Mac? Visited VersionTracker? They may give you some "playtime" with your Mac.

Long story short, it may simply be the case that you like Windows the best. That's ok. It turns out I do not. That's ok too.

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

I'm pretty much "plug and happy" myself. I've just gotten to the point where computers (At least Windows) aren't challenging during certain times where I want to find something new and Linux is too "Well RTFM" for my likes but Mac plays a middle ground allowing me to find out something new while getting done what I need to be done. I'm just kinda scared that once I do start using my Mac more that I'll get to a position where I don't want to use any computer anymore...or I'll start loosing touch with what is happening with the Internet outide of work (I use Win2K and WinXP). I dunno I'm wierd like that

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

Beer28 wrote:

Cybermagellan wrote: It's not a matter of playing around. I've used all three OS's exclusively at different times. However I'm just noticing I keep comming back to Windows which seems to have me trapped

http://www.codeweavers.com/
# run alot of your windows apps on linux with no virtualpc

http://www.transgaming.com/
# play alot of your windows games on linux with no virtualpc

http://ww2.nero.com/enu/nerolinux-prog.html
continue using nero on linux with a $19 license

http://www.gnomefiles.org
Find lots of cool and helpful software

If you are a newbie, I would suggest SuSE93, but if you already know linux like you say you do, go with fedora core 4. It's more of a power distro.
http://fedora.redhat.com/

Go to http://www.fedorafaq.org/ and grab the yum.conf file with all the good repositories, and you're on your way.

OR, you can wait until jobs releases the x86 macs, but those don't have windows emu progs like crossover, cedega and wine.

But see that's the thing...I don't want to have to fetch something everytime I need to do something else. I've been there. And "God forbid" if one package needs to be upgraded for one app but breaks another...plus do I really want to compile a source just so I can use an app? no

WillemM

I tried almost every distribution of linux. I even tried solaris (no luck there) and I still have my windows computer.

I love windows because it simply works: It has its quircks and things, but I can develop my software, read my e-mail, play games, surf the internet AND .... stare at my screen, wondering what to break down next and start something new.

Although I'd love to try the mac, I am holding back of it because of the price. I don't have the money (I've spend that on my MSDN subscription Tongue Out ) to buy an iBook or an iMac.

I have used Linux for quite some time now for my education and every time I switch back to my trusty Windows machine I am very happy that I can "plug" myself back into the normal world.

I still find using the console to start applications a little too weird. The least I want to do is search for my application through the endless startmenu or using "My Computer".

I use my computer every day with Windows and I think I will stick to it for now. For me, there's not a real alternative. (Time to get visual studio and the .net framework to mac!!!)

brussell

Thanks to Blowdart and this thread
I just found out that I can put Linux on my iPAQ PPC.

If I get a PPC Phone to replace this iPAQ, I'm going to put Linux on it!

I found I'm the other way. I started out on Mac computers. I bought a cheap PC computer and rarely used it (starting at DOS, then Win 3.11, right back to DOS, then Win 95, etc). I got a job as a software developer and slowly used that IBM computer more and more often at home and then upgraded (replaced) it and have been using Windows at home since. I occasionaly use a Mac, but it is mostly just to quickly get my e-mail if it is the computer that it is on.

Sven Groot
My name has 9 letters. Coincidence? I think not...

brussell wrote:
Thanks to Blowdart and this thread
I just found out that I can put Linux on my iPAQ PPC.

The hell? I'd be tempted to try it if it weren't such a hassle. And I have a nagging feeling it wouldn't be able to run any of my Compact Framework apps. Smiley

jsrfc58

I'm a bit confused as to what exactly you are looking for...and what you mean by "switching". I'm guessing you are talking about operating systems (i.e. going to Mac and never coming back), but then I reread your post and it seems like you are searching for motivation. I can't tell if you are looking for "programming project" type motivation or just "I want to try something different" motivation in general. If you are deep into programming development, the only word of advice I have (having programmed on Apples many years ago) is that backwards compatability in the Apple world is somewhat of a joke. I did a ton of programming on the Apple II line (assembly, rewriting parts of DOS, BASIC, Pascal, etc.), but then of course they moved to Mac. And then they kept coming out with new Macs and new operating systems, and sometimes old apps just simply would not work anymore.

On the x86 platform, there seems to be a lot of attention paid to backwards compatability, for better or for worse. So I've "switched" to the PC side of things for now, but I'm somewhere in between being a Windows user and a Linux user (Knoppix for now). But you wouldn't believe the amount of FUD some Apple users used to generate...how IBM was evil, etc. I don't know if it is better in the PC world or not. I can't tell.

Edit: What is funny is that after I finally got down to the lowest levels on both platforms (Apple II and x86 boxes) I found that the fundamentals are still the same. For a time, I was led to believe otherwise. It is just that you have to wade through so much FUD and marketing crap in the process unfortunately. Tongue Out

troublefunk

I run both Windows and Linux.

I rarely comment on the internet about Windows as it is simply not interesting to me as an operating system. It works fine if you know how to maintain it, and there is some great software that runs on it, but you can't really have the same kind of involvement you can with Linux.

With Linux you can replace most parts of the system, tune it, read mailing lists and comment (and actually get answers from real developers), pick your side on the Gnome/KDE wars, rant about GNU/Linux being the true name...
I can pick the weirdest desktop like 'ratpoison', and run it under directfb with a custom real time/soft irq kernel. It's totally pointless thing to do.. but I can do it!

I reackon many people find the same thing. That's why you get so many pro-Linux messages from outlook express users on usenet, and why Slashdot has so many hits from Internet explorer, but so few pro Windows comments.
People are fascinated by Linux because it's always in a state of flux. People do not feel the same about Windows as Microsoft has to be very careful about backwards compatability and making sure their newest version is still recognisable to someone who just abandoned win98. Sure it works, it's just not very exciting.

So, in a roundabout way, I'd say you don't really *need* to wean yourself off Windows, you just want to see what's going on in the rest of the computing world. I recommend keeping a Winbox around in case you need it. Computers are so cheap nowadays it's no big deal to have a couple of them.

brussell

Sven Groot wrote:
brussell wrote:Thanks to Blowdart and this thread
I just found out that I can put Linux on my iPAQ PPC.

The hell? I'd be tempted to try it if it weren't such a hassle. And I have a nagging feeling it wouldn't be able to run any of my Compact Framework apps.

I'd be tempted to try it if it weren't such a hassle too Smiley

Luckily, I'm looking for a new phone and there is a PDA phone I want. Unfortunately, it's rather expensive just so I can have one device instead of two (my PDA and phone do everything that PDA phone does and more)
You have to remove the Windows Mobile from the device and put on Linux. I use my PDA mostly for connecting to my Outlook to sync my calendar, contacts, and notes, Excel spreadsheets, and Adobe and MS Reader eBooks.
I'm not sure I can do any of those things (or at least not as convenietly) if I switched to Linux. So I have to wait and see if I get me a new PDA and then I can put Linux on this one and not worry.

I found that out by deciding to get the key for opera (I have only ever used IE and Netscape on Windows and Safari, IE, and Netscape on the Mac) to try out a new browser. I keep hearing all these good things about Firefox. I really like the tabs in IE7, and figured that if Firefox has tabs, maybe it has other things I could like too.
Never bothered before because IE6 does everything I (thought I) wanted it to do. Anyway, on that Opera key page, I found it had a key for PPC Linux which got me curious so I did a google search and found this link:
Running Linux on an iPAQ

blowdart
Peek-a-boo

brussell wrote:
Thanks to Blowdart and this thread
I just found out that I can put Linux on my iPAQ PPC.

How did I get blamed for this? :O

brussell

blowdart wrote:
brussell wrote:Thanks to Blowdart and this thread
I just found out that I can put Linux on my iPAQ PPC.

How did I get blamed for this?

You started the thread Smiley

See my above post for a too long reason for finding out that I could do that.

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

I'm not going to Linux...it's too much for what I really want to do and I've used it before it's just not the direction I want to go...and I've been there before so I kinda know what I'm talking about. End of story

I wasn't really looking for motivation to move to Mac I was just wondering if anyone else has had this or any type of experience and seen any kinda of holes that they have ran into with doing so.

Lazycoder2

Cybermagellan wrote:
I'm not going to Linux...it's too much for what I really want to do and I've used it before it's just not the direction I want to go...and I've been there before so I kinda know what I'm talking about. End of story

I wasn't really looking for motivation to move to Mac I was just wondering if anyone else has had this or any type of experience and seen any kinda of holes that they have ran into with doing so.

I bought an iBook last year right after they bumped up the processor speed and started making the Airport card standard on them. It's the first Apple product I've owned in about 20 years. (We had an Apple IIc).

Why did I buy it? It's an exciting platform right now. It's a platform I'm not familiar with. (I've been running MS since DOS 3 and I've installed a number of Linux distros over the years) Finding out how it all works appeals to the geek in me. Learning a completely foreign programming language (Objective C) and API (Cocoa and the AppKit) has been fun.

I've still got a Windows XP box out in my workshop. It has Visual Studio, 2003 and 2005 B2 installed on it and Civilization 3. After having used OS X for a while now, I find myself more and more irritated when I use my PC at work and at home.

The only real hole I've run into is the usual /. response to switching away from Windows...Games and a cheap paint program. I haven't tried getting the Transgaming solution working under OS X yet. I'm happily playing Starcraft and Warcraft 3 on my iBook though. Everyone that has an Apple seems to use Photoshop for all their imaging needs. I'm not going to shell out $300 to create rinky dink little graphics. Especially since I have a copy of Paint Shop Pro 7 installed on my Windows box that is entirely appropriate for my skill level (think crooked stick figures). I wish I could find a Paint Shop Pro analog for OS X OTHER than the Gimp. Bleh, all the power of Photoshop and three times the confusion. Perplexed

Cairo
I want my waffle sundae, give me my carbs!

Lazycoder2 wrote:

Everyone that has an Apple seems to use Photoshop for all their imaging needs. I'm not going to shell out $300 to create rinky dink little graphics.

Photoshop Elements: $50 at WalMart.

ArtRage: free

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

Maybe it is just me...but I have no idea what you mean by that...

Lazycoder2

Cairo wrote:

Photoshop Elements: $50 at WalMart.

ArtRage: free

Re: PE - Yeah, I've seen people recommend that. But that seems to be more about modifying existing graphics and I'm looking for something that can help me create graphics from scratch. Even if they look bad due to my lack of skill. PE may still be worth it as I have a baby coming soon and I'm sure LOT of digital photos are to follow.

ArtRage - I'll have to try that one. I seem to remember trying it out a while back on my Windows PC with my cheap graphics tablet.

beer28 wrote:

I hear you can play battle chess on it.

ooooh, Archon too?

Karim
Trapped in a world he never made!

This is what I hear all the cool kids are playing with:

http://www.osx86project.org/

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Unfortunately it involves getting a hold of OS X for Intel, which is illegal unless you actually buy a dev kit from Apple.

It's apparently a lot of fun getting Mac OS X running on a plain beige Intel box (or laptop). You can dual boot between Windows and OS X on the same box, or run OS X in a VMware session. Or so I've heard.

They have even started to port WINE under Darwin/OS X (calling it "Darwine") so that you can run some Windows apps under OS X. Or so I've heard.

If you do not wish to play with illegal software, there's always PearPC:

http://www.pearpc.net/index.php

This allows you to run OS X under Windows. You install using the standard OS X install media. However it runs a bit slower than OS X for Intel, since it's an emulation environment.

As far as "switching" goes... well... I never realized how much Windows Update was a work of sheer genius until my first Red Hat "errata." And anyone who has had to remember to fix disk permissions under OS X probably doesn't think it's perfect, either.

It's like when I go on vacation. Other operating systems are interesting, and fun to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. Just my personal opinion.

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

Karim wrote:

If you do not wish to play with illegal software, there's always PearPC:

http://www.pearpc.net/index.php

This allows you to run OS X under Windows. You install using the standard OS X install media. However it runs a bit slower than OS X for Intel, since it's an emulation environment.

As far as "switching" goes... well... I never realized how much Windows Update was a work of sheer genius until my first Red Hat "errata." And anyone who has had to remember to fix disk permissions under OS X probably doesn't think it's perfect, either.

It's like when I go on vacation. Other operating systems are interesting, and fun to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. Just my personal opinion.

Funny you mention that...I used to be a mod over at the emaculation forums and know one of the primary developers on PearPC (Which so happens to have gotten a job at Microsoft). So I'm fully aware of it but thanks!

And personal opinions and experiences that is exactlly what I'm looking for, thanks!

DCMonkey
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey will destroy you!

I switched from Win98 to RH Linux (5 or 6) as my primary home desktop and stayed there for a couple of years (till RH 7.2?). I used Windowmaker as my desktop envirmonment.

My main reason for doing so were becuase it was something new to tinker with (and because I had fallen in with the /. crowd Wink .

My reasons for switching back (to w2k and now XP) are a bit dated now but were as follows:

Netscape 4 sucked. Slow, bloated and had a tendency to regularly peg the CPU and eat up all available RAM.
Mozilla sucked/was barely usable at the time (much better now as Firefox).
Multimedia support sucked. Still does to much more of a dgree than it should.
Image viewing apps sucked. AcDcee (sp?) for Linux would have been my preference at the time. This has probably improved.
Desktops like KDE and GNOME were the future but I was not terribly impressed with them at the time. KDE was a half-decent cargo-cult copy of Windows 98 that performed horribly on my system and GNOME was in turn an atrocious, unstable copy of KDE. Both have advanced considerably since then however.
RPM hell. Many of the apps I wanted didn't have RPMs or relied on RPMs I didn't have (or that no-one had bthered to create for older distro versions). Got quite sick of visiting rpmfind.net. This too has improved on RPM based distros like Fedora (I tried out FC1 for a while), but the problem of not having packages I wanted/needed in the repository was still there. Upgrading major RH versions looked to be a big PITA as well and I didn't feel like switching to Debian.

I was into gaming quite a bit before the switch and was looking to get into it again, so I bought a shiny new system and decided to go back to Windows. After a brief descent into the Windows that cannot be NaMEd, I settled on w2k and was happy. I've since upgraded to XP (sp2) and am still more than pleased. I keep an eye on the 2 Linux desktops from time to time, but honestly haven't seen anything that would make me want to switch back.

I've also recently bought a Mac Mini. I used it exclusively for a week or two after purchase (World of Warcraft sessions excluded). There is alot to like about it. I could see using it full time if it weren't for my current interest in Vista/Avalon/WinFS/WoW.

I also have a OS/2 VPC image lying around somewhere as well as Basilisk II running Mac OS System 7.

Was there a point in there? Bah who cares Smiley

Karim
Trapped in a world he never made!

Cybermagellan wrote:
Funny you mention that...I used to be a mod over at the emaculation forums and know one of the primary developers on PearPC (Which so happens to have gotten a job at Microsoft).

Cool... interesting tidbit there -- did the PearPC guy apply to Microsoft, or was he recruited? It is really an incredibly cool hack --- the first time you see OS X boot up under Windows XP, it puts a big grin on your face. Did someone at Microsoft play with it and say "Hire this guy?"

Of course, the smile fades a bit when OS X's Software Update pops up and announces that you need to download and install 120 megabytes of security updates. LOL

Manip

Then why do you run it Orbit?

Cider
Daze-d & Confused

Cybermagellan wrote:
I'm not going to Linux...it's too much for what I really want to do and I've used it before it's just not the direction I want to go...and I've been there before so I kinda know what I'm talking about. End of story

I wasn't really looking for motivation to move to Mac I was just wondering if anyone else has had this or any type of experience and seen any kinda of holes that they have ran into with doing so.

You were looking into Konfabulator before, right? Why not try out stuff in the XUL and XAML world (eg. write an extension for Firefox or try something with Avalon). I've been messing about with XUL recently writing an extension for Deer Park and its not been too taxing but its one of those areas where you can wield a lot of power without sleep loss!

On that note, I have a rather cool XPI extension for Deer Park/Firefox 1.5 which I'm putting the final finishes to for the first release (even though Firefox 1.5 wont be with us until about blimming November), and its really spurred me on to have a look at XAML when I get a chance.