Comment Feed for VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October! (Coffeehouse on Channel 9)

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

dotnetjunkie — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:50:15 GMT

Hehe, me too! :p

I just hope that SQL Server 2005 will be released at the same time or even a bit earlier ;)

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

lethalbyte — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:48:37 GMT

So? Still made for good reading :-) I've been hawkishly watching this thread and get excited when a new post appears! I need a life!

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

SiggiGG — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:52:07 GMT

Good news Zeo, but did you trace the news source of the Bink news?

They link to this:
http://www.thehotfix.net/comments.php?catid=1&shownews=790

Which links to this, which includes old posts from.. you! :)
http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=126513#126513

I find this kinda funny.. circular references :D

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

Zeo — Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:21:34 GMT

Rumors have been flying everywhere that Microsoft's Visual Studio 2005 will be RTM (Released to Manufacturing) and on MSDN in a matter of days. Orginally thought to be on MSDN for download on October 14th, the release supposedly got slipped because the final RC build failed a regression test. Many developers are hopeful that it will be released weeks before the official marketing launch to get a head start on coding. Note that this information is straight from the mouth from the VP of Development on Visual Studio 2005. SQL Server 2005 will release at the same time as well from what we understand.

It's also been rumored that many of the developers who worked on creating Visual Studio 2005 have already moved on to other projects, including a Service Pack 1 for VS 2005 due out by late 2006. There is also a lot of talk surrounding another version of the .NET Framework to be released around the Vista timeframe with a version of 2.1, killing the chance of the next Visual Studio codenamed "Orca" being released at that time.

Note that Visual Studio Team System 2005 and BizTalk 2006 will be out in Q1 of 2006.

http://bink.nu/Article5114.bink

I've been hearing that tomorrow or Wednesday at the latest.

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

SiggiGG — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 00:27:12 GMT

At least the VS2005 team held their ship party, pictures are online :P

http://www.bigbackpack.ca/nGallery/albums/VS+2005+Ship+Party.aspx

Via PeteL's blog:
http://blogs.msdn.com/petel/archive/2005/10/22/483834.aspx

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

irascian — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:29:54 GMT

Arran wrote:
Any one hear any more information about this?

I get new information almost every day from different people within Microsoft, and all "off the record" with a refusal to give any sort of concrete date - to such an extent that I just don't believe anything I hear any more.

I think my post from a few days ago that says "one or two weeks" is still relevant. Certainly the different sources seem united in the belief that nothing is likely to be downloadable from MSDN Universal this week or even this weekend. Next week MIGHT be a different matter.

I would expect those on the Ascend (beta) programme to get a one or two day head start on MSDN Universal as those folks have been developing hard using the beta's and were originally given the 14th October date which some of them will have been waiting on to launch their own software.

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

setagllib — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:40:17 GMT

Yeah, what gives dudes?

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

Arran — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:18:54 GMT

Any one hear any more information about this?

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

out180 — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:52:12 GMT

irascian wrote:

...

If it's not on MSDN before November 7th I'm going to have to eat a large piece of humble pie and apologise to "Rumourbuster Rob" the admin on longhornblogs, who's posted MANY blog entries complaining about lack of professionalism or basic journalism on other people's blogs and who seemed to have been hoist by his own petard with his proclamations that stories of VS2005 appearing on MSDN before Nobember 7th were "false rumours". It is now starting to look like he may be proved right, for reasons that seem to change from one day to the next, varying according to which Microsoft person you speak to.

Actually, IMO, in order for RBR to be "right" one would have to show that MS NEVER intended to release it for download prior to November 7th and I just don't believe that can ever be proven.

Save your pie. :D

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

irascian — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:24:45 GMT

JohnAskew wrote:

Is the RTM version available anywhere other than "not on MSDN Universal yet"?

I think you can safely assume that so far as non-Microsoft folks are concerned MSDN Universal is the FIRST place it will appear for download (although I don't hang out on Warez sites so can't comment on those).

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

JohnAskew — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:19:06 GMT

irascian wrote:

JohnAskew wrote:

irascian wrote:
So from October 14th you can download, build and redistribute your applications on the released version of VS2005"

Why does it say on the download page that this version is NOT supported with the "go-live" license? In fact it says that this version MAY NOT be used to develop production code!

You didn't read the fine print or do you have more information?

You're confusing the versions. The note on the download page refers to the Release Candidate (NOT the Release to Manufacturing) version. The RTM version is the subject of this thread and is the version referred to in the quote you've taken about when you can download, build and redistribute your applications ON THE RELEASED VERSION of VS2005. And yes, the released version (November 7th in the shops, originally slated to be on MSDN on 14th October) is later than had been indicated in the first posting in this thread and isn't available on MSDN Universaly yet.

Is the RTM version available anywhere other than "not on MSDN Universal yet"?

The RC version is the one that is available for download, and it won't be a problem to recompile with the released version when it becomes available. Thanks for the post.

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

irascian — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:17:09 GMT

JohnAskew wrote:

irascian wrote:
So from October 14th you can download, build and redistribute your applications on the released version of VS2005"

Why does it say on the download page that this version is NOT supported with the "go-live" license? In fact it says that this version MAY NOT be used to develop production code!

You didn't read the fine print or do you have more information?

You're confusing the versions. The note on the download page refers to the Release Candidate (NOT the Release to Manufacturing) version. The RTM version is the subject of this thread and is the version referred to in the quote you've taken about when you can download, build and redistribute your applications ON THE RELEASED VERSION of VS2005. And yes, the released version (November 7th in the shops, originally slated to be on MSDN on 14th October) is later than had been indicated in the first posting in this thread and isn't available on MSDN Universal yet.

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

irascian — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:16:34 GMT

Zeo wrote:
I've heard mixed messages all over the place.

Tell me about it!

We went back to Microsoft about the "one or two weeks delay because of a SQL Server problem" trying to get more concrete information but nobody's prepared to commit to a specific date for MSDN Universal availability.

The blogs have been unbelievably quiet on the whole non-show and possible problems, and I can't help (call me a cynic) thinking the lack of any kind of official statement is down to nobody wanting to admit to any kind of problem or be seen as the fall guy who let the story out to the big wide world. It makes it very hard to work out what the real story is when people pass on information about delays but won't be drawn on any kind of expected date.

Personally, I'm kind of resigned to missing the deadline now and just getting on with my project using VS2003, worrying about VS2005 after Christmas when a ton of new books will start to appear and the inevitable teething problems will at least have been documented.

If it's not on MSDN before November 7th I'm going to have to eat a large piece of humble pie and apologise to "Rumourbuster Rob" the admin on longhornblogs, who's posted MANY blog entries complaining about lack of professionalism or basic journalism on other people's blogs and who seemed to have been hoist by his own petard with his proclamations that stories of VS2005 appearing on MSDN before Nobember 7th were "false rumours". It is now starting to look like he may be proved right, for reasons that seem to change from one day to the next, varying according to which Microsoft person you speak to. :(

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

FluffyDevilBunny — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:20:41 GMT

You can write production code, you just can't release production code. A Go-Live license gives your permission to release the code you wrote, but does not allow you to distribute the framework. The framework must be downloaded from Microsoft on thier own.

But writing your code is another thing.

FDB

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

JohnAskew — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:17:52 GMT

irascian wrote:

So from October 14th you can download, build and redistribute your applications on the released version of VS2005"

Why does it say on the download page that this version is NOT supported with the "go-live" license? In fact it says that this version MAY NOT be used to develop production code!

You didn't read the fine print or do you have more information?

[C]

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

Gary Russo — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:04:49 GMT

Zeo, thanks for the great info.

I don't mind the wait on RTM since there is just 3 weeks to go until the November 7th Launch anyway.

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

Zeo — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:07:58 GMT

I've heard mixed messages all over the place.

I heard yesterday(sunday) that the ship party had been confirmed for thursday of this week.

I also heard from several PMs on the VS side that they've signed off on the RTM status for their teams on Saturday.

I also heard that Microsoft wants to have the press really cover the RTM release....and that there's a surprise coming.

Lastly I heard that on the SQL side things are in RTM status(today).

I'll check with my sources....but from what I've heard....It's gonna RTM soon....but again....friday came and went....and maybe something has come up...

Also...as far as I know....a few months back(August Timeframe)...Microsoft's Ireland production plant began to print the boxes..manuals..and CD holders...

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

SiggiGG — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:06:28 GMT

Mike Dimmick wrote:
FluffyDevilBunny wrote:Um "2" would absolutely mean missing the target date. Manufacturing needs more than 5 days to produce everything for the launch.

So this means that Sql Server will end up being a "ticket" in the box thing then?

It depends whether the issue is in some SQL Server-only code, or whether it's in the CLR, Base Class Library or SQL Management Objects (and I'm sure there are many other shared components). If it's any of these, VS can't ship either.

Well, VS2005 does include SQL Server 2005 Express, so it's probably tied together.

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

Mike Dimmick — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:55:17 GMT

FluffyDevilBunny wrote:
Um "2" would absolutely mean missing the target date. Manufacturing needs more than 5 days to produce everything for the launch.

So this means that Sql Server will end up being a "ticket" in the box thing then?

It depends whether the issue is in some SQL Server-only code, or whether it's in the CLR, Base Class Library or SQL Management Objects (and I'm sure there are many other shared components). If it's any of these, VS can't ship either.

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

FluffyDevilBunny — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:46:48 GMT

Um "2" would absolutely mean missing the target date. Manufacturing needs more than 5 days to produce everything for the launch.

So this means that Sql Server will end up being a "ticket" in the box thing then?

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

irascian — Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:34:44 GMT

And an update received this morning:

"There have been some last minute things found which the SQL team want to resolve before release, so we can expect a delay of a week or two."

:(

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

irascian — Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:52:45 GMT

I had heard "Tuesday or Wednesday" on Wednesday last week but of course RTM could have been today with them needing three days to get it up on MSDN Universal, mirrored etc.

So your source could be correct in that it's ready now, but your earlier information could also be correct in that it won't be on MSDN Universal until Tuesday.

Re: VS2005 RTM on MSDN 14th October!

Zeo — Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:17:07 GMT

This changes by the hour....last I had hear was early next week around tuesday...

Saturday, 10.15.2005

"We're hours away from releasing to manufacture (our way of saying "ship it to the customers") Visual Studio 2005. This is a big deal for the developer division. There are tons of people who've worked for years on this series of products. The launch event is November 7.

To get ready for RTM, we wanted to sit down with one of the guys who runs the team and talk about what it took to get here. Hope you enjoy this little chat with one of the top managers at Microsoft where you get to learn a little more about some of the challenges of building the tools that much of the world's software is built on."

That being said, nihilism will doom a project before it's gotten off the ground, so being pessimistic all the time is NOT a solution to the problem.

When I left a client I'd contracted at for four years the head of architecture there said he would miss my "unique approach of approaching each project with a sense of gloomy optimism" (although "happy pessimism" would probably fit just as well) which probably best describes the whole pessimism/optimism thing! The trick is to be optimistic and encouraging with your team members whilst making it clear to management when they are being blinded by their own hype and ridiculously over-the-top optimism.

As for VS2005 it's a bit more personal than that. I've just started a new project for a client as "technical lead". It involves taking a large amount of existing framework code and adapting it for delivery of a new product for one of their clients around Christmas time, with a hidden objective of refactoring the code where possible to better position it for the future. I've fought quite hard for this to be the client's first VS2005 web project. There is, as you'd expect, considerable opposition, because it's seen as high risk. Fortunately, the CTO supports the use of VS2005 (although the CEO and BAs regard it as too high risk) and basically I think I've won agreement that I can have "one day" to get the code up and running ready for regression testing.

There is a LOT of code and a lot of changes to sort out and I've basically agreed that that "one day" will be a Friday or a Monday (which gives me a weekend in addition, albeit in my own time). The timescales really needed that "one day" to be this Monday!

The delay screws me somewhat in that it messes some very tight deadlines up and next weekend isn't a lot of use to me as I am away at the Developer Developer Developer day (early start to drive to Reading, late return after the geek dinner) so effectively I'm going to have a rather shortened Sunday to try and get up and running, assuming that VS2005 is not only uploaded but downloadable over my rather poor 512MB broadband connection before next weekend(assuming I can have it all downloaded by the Friday evening).

Truth is that if it doesn't get released in its RTM version before next weekend I'm not going to be doing any "real" work with VS2005 until next year. Hence the extreme interest in it being available early.