.Net Popularity | The Coffeehouse

bonk
Ich bin der Wurstfachverkäuferin !

Cybermagellan wrote:
The company that I work for is trying to stay away from .NET basically because we can't take the chance that someone has a pirated version of Windows and can't download the framework

Maybe you should consider deploying the Framework with your apps ?

AFO#
Madrid 2020

Hello:

In my company we develop with .NET and Java/J2EE.

I think that we will use .NET for a long time (like Java). Those are the most powerful development environment, and they are growing Big Smile

But..... I'm not sure if I will can deploy a .NET solution over a Solaris server Tongue Out

This (real multi-platform) will be great for .NET

Bye

footballism
Another Paradigm Shift!

Cybermagellan wrote:
The company that I work for is trying to stay away from .NET basically because we can't take the chance that someone has a pirated version of Windows and can't download the framework

Dude, trust me, I use pirated version of Windows, and I can have .NET runtime installed:p

Sheva

waynek

I've been an ASP developer for a number of years. I always saw upgrading to .NET as inevitable, but didn't want to invest the time.

Lately the issue has been forced, so I've taken a good look at .NET and LAMP. In the end, I decided to go with LAMP, even though there is not as much built-in support and the learning curve will be higher for me.

My reasons:

Cost to me (I don't use Visual Studio, and I would need to
Potential cost to customer (Win 2003 Server, Sharepint, etc)
Hardware requirements both development and customer

I also did a very unscientific thing: over a period of time, as I was browsing, I looked at file extensions. I saw a lot of .php and I didn't see a lot of .aspx

Taken together, these were the things that motivated my decision

anand.t

waynek wrote:

Cost to me (I don't use Visual Studio, and I would need to
Potential cost to customer (Win 2003 Server, Sharepint, etc)
Hardware requirements both development and customer

Microsoft has a free Visual studio version now. Also they have been giving standard versions free for watching webcast. The OS comes free with any new computer from any major maker. For other stuff like sharepoint, you can always use a mix of closed + open + free software.

Anyway it all comes down to one thing, if you are really making money Wink

waynek wrote:

I also did a very unscientific thing: over a period of time, as I was browsing, I looked at file extensions. I saw a lot of .php and I didn't see a lot of .aspx

Intranet sites dont appear while searching in the internet. And yes lot of message boards use php, but I can assure you most of them are junk. I had some 4-5 message boards some time back Tongue Out

And some sites mask aspx pages. For example myspace it shows cold fusion but infact it runs asp.net using some sort of software. I dont remember what is the name of the software, but they first implemented the site in cold fusion and found it tooo slow. So they moved everything to asp.net. Another success store in google docs, and spreadsheet. [A]

.Net is here to stay for a decade, so is J2EE and so is LAMP. Probably mono will make LAMP - > LAMA in the not far future Smiley

glebd
Turning coffee into code

This may sound like a heresy, but unfortunately .NET (what an awfully stupid name!) is bound to gain even more momentum in the future not because it is well-designed (class hierarchy tens of levels deep anyone?) The main reason, IMHO, is that .NET is very forgiving to the programmer's mistakes, hideously bad code and designs so awful you want to poke your eyes out. With .NET, all these things kind of work, and people without any knowledge of good programming practices can produce functioning (if only barely) code. There is a humongous class library which is more than enough for most purposes, and the .NET languages/IDE hold programmer's hand so tightly he cannot shoot himself in the foot even if possessing very rudimentary software development skills (or none at all.) .NET will live on and expand, more and more code will be written by incompetent programmers, and programs will become more and more bloated and unreliable.

.NET enables developers to produce cheap working code very quickly—almost without thinking on their part—and I'm not so sure this is a good thing.

blowdart
Peek-a-boo

glebd wrote:

.NET enables developers to produce cheap working code very quickly—almost without thinking on their part—and I'm not so sure this is a good thing.

Ah snobbery. The same was said about Java by C programmers (no pointers? why people won't need skill to code).

And of course we all know things written in Java just aren't quality.

If anything .NET isn't simple enough. I'd go as far to say the most common programming language would be VB for applications. From bankers automating Excel (it's scaring how many merchant banks and stock brokers run off it), to people customising Word. They don't care about elegance, good design or whatever, they just want some easy way to customise and control. And that's a good thing.

glebd
Turning coffee into code

blowdart wrote:

They don't care about elegance, good design or whatever, they just want some easy way to customise and control. And that's a good thing.

No this is a bad thing. Unfortunately, it is inevitable because good and reliable designs cost money, and people in charge of the money don't give a damn about software quality. The fact that enterprises are full of half-broken applications that cost millions is just sad. And this is only going to get worse.

blowdart
Peek-a-boo

glebd wrote:

blowdart wrote:
They don't care about elegance, good design or whatever, they just want some easy way to customise and control. And that's a good thing.

No this is a bad thing. Unfortunately, it is inevitable because good and reliable designs cost money, and people in charge of the money don't give a damn about software quality. The fact that enterprises are full of half-broken applications that cost millions is just sad. And this is only going to get worse.

Enterprises? There's more to code than enterprises. There's mom & pop shops, there's places that can't afford a developer and so have to do it themselves. Clubs that just want to have a database to send out their newsletter.

Not all code is enterprise targetted, nor does it need to be.

glebd
Turning coffee into code

blowdart wrote:

Not all code is enterprise targetted, nor does it need to be.

Agreed. But tell that to Microsoft—I bet they have pretty good idea where their money come from. Basement developers? Nah.

Nidonocu
The Poison Bunny

glebd wrote:
Agreed. But tell that to Microsoft—I bet they have pretty good idea where their money come from. Basement developers? Nah.

Without basement developers, where do the -new- enterprises and next generation of developers come from?
Without C# Express, I never would of started building my own personal 'dream application' and now I want to move in to a .net development career. Smiley

leeappdalecom
.nettter

In the UK .Net has taken over, anyone who keeps and eye on the market knows that.

There's literally 1000's of .Net jobs in the UK what does that prove?

Tensor
Im in yr house upgrading yr family

That most .NET developers are so crap that turnover is very high? Wink

_{Above statement does not reflect my actual opinion.}

glebd
Turning coffee into code

Nidonocu wrote:

Without C# Express, I never would of started building my own personal 'dream application' and now I want to move in to a .net development career.

Good luck with that—I'm sure you will succeed. Just remember that there is much more to programming than C# and .NET.

(Funny thing, "NET" in Russian means "NO"!)

Harlequin
http://twitter.com/TrueHarlequin

emet wrote:
.NET in English also means "No".

And we thus begin another C9v4 update request starting.........now.

thumbtacks2

I'm still waiting for a massive list of commercially shipped software that uses .NET.

Haven't seen it yet. Is there one?

That said, I do know it is being used in several businesses behind the scenes. C#/VB.NET is probably a faster environment to whip up a quick prototype in, and it is slowly taking hold in many companies for productivity reasons. But as far as commercial products being strictly built with it...I think it sort of goes back to the old compiled (native) vs. interpreted vs. JIT-compiled arguments/aspects of different programming languages.

SecretSoftware
Code to live, but Live to code.

If only shipping .net applications was not like shipping source code, then many businesses would adopt it right away for future projects.

But nowadays, any script kiddie can decompile/reverse engineer, a .NET application, on the fly. And create zombie/pirated versions of your product. Hence its not as attractive as non-Managed applications. At least with non-Managed applications, your source code that gets shipped is actually native machine code, that is non human readable, nor will script kiddies be able to do much with it.

If MS would just enable some sort of code protection between compilers and CLR (ie your assemblies would be immune from reverse engineering, by some sort of assembly encryption), then maybe people and companies would start to rely on .NET for their enterprise and business applications.

Hence, MS should move in the direction of securing the output of .NET languages compilers, so as to make .NET more attractive on the whole.

thumbtacks2

But at what point in the code execution/disassembly would you have some sort of encryption feature added? Let's say you put together some kind of whiz-bang cool game using managed code, but need a great deal of performance. Considering that a JIT is being used, would you:

a) encrypt the file contents, and then decrypt them upon loading or encrypt the files when writing to a disk
b) load the encrypted files, and decrypt them on the fly, taking a performance hit

or

c) run screaming back to unmanaged code (or "unsafe")

SecretSoftware
Code to live, but Live to code.

thumbtacks2 wrote:
But at what point in the code execution/disassembly would you have some sort of encryption feature added? Let's say you put together some kind of whiz-bang cool game using managed code, but need a great deal of performance. Considering that a JIT is being used, would you:

a) encrypt the file contents, and then decrypt them upon loading or encrypt the files when writing to a disk
b) load the encrypted files, and decrypt them on the fly, taking a performance hit

or

c) run screaming back to unmanaged code (or "unsafe")

a or b(though b is better than a).

With Multi_Core processors, and ever larger Memory space, there will not be a noticable performance hit with b. So i go with B.

PeterF
Early Adopter

I've been using .NET since the first beta's, when was it again, 1999?... now with the AJAX toolkit for ASP.NET I really enjoy buiding dynamic web apps. For an example look at http://peterf.mine.nu/default.aspx (please don't hammer the server Smiley ) I'm still planning to improve the UI and responsiveness...

I think any programming platform which allows programmers to quickly develop applications for their customers has a good chance of being accepted. At the website development side Orcas will make a big hit with its native AJAX support.

My 2cts

EDIT: the sudoku webpage has a few buttons.
New: reverts to an empty sudoku
Easy: easy sudoku with plenty of unneeded given cells
Difficult: sudoku where all cells are needed for getting the answer
Insane: sudoku where potentially you cannot solve it without trying to guess, but still only one solution is possible
Brute Force: to solve an 'insane' sudoku
Show Hints: Shows the answers in yellow

anand.t

PeterF wrote:

I've been using .NET since the first beta's, when was it again, 1999?... now with the AJAX toolkit for ASP.NET I really enjoy buiding dynamic web apps. For an example look at http://peterf.mine.nu/default.aspx (please don't hammer the server ) I'm still planning to improve the UI and responsiveness...

I think any programming platform which allows programmers to quickly develop applications for their customers has a good chance of being accepted. At the website development side Orcas will make a big hit with its native AJAX support.

My 2cts

EDIT: the sudoku webpage has a few buttons.
New: reverts to an empty sudoku
Easy: easy sudoku with plenty of unneeded given cells
Difficult: sudoku where all cells are needed for getting the answer
Insane: sudoku where potentially you cannot solve it without trying to guess, but still only one solution is possible
Brute Force: to solve an 'insane' sudoku
Show Hints: Shows the answers in yellow

Cant think of any country which has n and u. So mind telling me what country domain is that?? (mine.nu)

PeterF
Early Adopter

It's one of the domain names of the DynDNS service to point to my own PC in the Netherlands. .Nu is some small island called Niue near New Zealand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.nu

anand.t

PeterF wrote:
It's one of the domain names of the DynDNS service to point to my own PC in the Netherlands. .Nu is some small island called Niue near New Zealand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.nu