Some recent high profile hackings. | The Coffeehouse

BenZila

The first hack is just funny, some Iranian hackers hacked a bunch of Novell sites, to proclaim that Iran has a nuclear right. Ok guys, on a Novell site?

http://www.theregister.com/2005/10/03/opensuse_hacked/

http://www.zone-h.org/defacements/filter/filter_defacer=IHS%20IRAN%20HACKERS%20SABOTAGE

And the next site was spreadfirefox.org

It seems that hackers like annular eclipses.

Also both site where running the super duper secure LAMP config.

There was also seems to be a major windows 2003 problem at the moment with some guy called evo hacking a load of 2003 boxes.

Manip

They might have a point about Iran though. I mean how hypocritical is it for the UK and USA to have nuclear reactors, when in fact we could afford not to ... and to stop, with threats, a country like Iran that NEEDS that type of cheap power from having it?

Black Ratchet
Just another Phone Phreak from Boston

Because Iran has been so honest and forthcoming before. If they say their reactor is being used for peaceful purposes, we should believe them, right? North Korea told us the same thing too, and they never went back on their word, right? Saying that Iran flat out can't have nuclear power is wrong, but the fact that they are specifically using heavy water reactors causes me to take pause.

Also, BenZila, I take offense at the work 'hacking' being used here. These were system intrusions done by system crackers. No hacking involved. (Also, LAMP or ASP, bad programming is bad programming, and thats what caused these sites to be taken down)

Manip

Black Ratchet wrote:
Because Iran has been so honest and forthcoming before. If they say their reactor is being used for peaceful purposes, we should believe them, right?

All a nuclear reactor does is generate electricity. I think what you meant to say was you couldn't be sure they would use the enriched uranium *in* their reactor instead of a nuclear weapon.

Black Ratchet wrote:
North Korea told us the same thing too, and they never went back on their word, right?

The US government told us there was WMP in Iraq, and the British government said Iraq could launch a rocket attack in 35 minutes... Governments lie!

Black Ratchet wrote:
Also, BenZila, I take offense at the work 'hacking' being used here. These were system intrusions done by system crackers. No hacking involved. (Also, LAMP or ASP, bad programming is bad programming, and thats what caused these sites to be taken down)

If you check and up-to-date dictionary you will find the definition for 'hacking' has changed. I suggest you update your volumes to include the new meaning. Also 'gay' is sometimes used to describe homosexuals (in a often derogatory way) as well as happy, I suggest you add that to your volume while you're at it.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

Manip wrote:
Black Ratchet wrote:Because Iran has been so honest and forthcoming before. If they say their reactor is being used for peaceful purposes, we should believe them, right?

All a nuclear reactor does is generate electricity. I think what you meant to say was you couldn't be sure they would use the enriched uranium *in* their reactor instead of a nuclear weapon.

Not really.

Virtually all reactors can be used to produce weapons-grade materials.

Indeed, the UK's first nuclear power station (IIRC, it was also the world's) was primarily used to produce enriched uranium (or was it plutonium?), the power generated was just a by-product.

Manip

Black Ratchet wrote:

hack - v.tr. Informal. To alter (a computer program): hacked her text editor to read HTML.

Here is from MY dictionary:

hacked, hack·ing, hacks
v. tr.

To cut or chop with repeated and irregular blows: hacked down the saplings.
To break up the surface of (soil).
1. Informal. To alter (a computer program): hacked her text editor to read HTML.
2. To gain access to (a computer file or network) illegally or without authorization: hacked the firm's personnel database.
Slang. To cut or mutilate as if by hacking: hacked millions off the budget.
Slang. To cope with successfully; manage: couldn't hack a second job.

Black Ratchet wrote:
So, Manip, I assume you use racial slurs on the street, as after all, they are in the dictionary as well. Right?

That makes no sense, in fact the logic absolutely escapes me, want to explain your incoherent ramblings?

Karim
Trapped in a world he never made!

Black Ratchet wrote:
What I meant to say is that they've purchased plans for a nuclear bomb from the "Black Market" which was run by the Pakistani physicist who designed their nuclear bomb. (Unsure of the name, but he's admitted he sold it to him)

Abdul Qadeer Khan (A. Q. Khan)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Qadeer_Khan

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040308fa_fact

This page is fun:

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Pakistan/AQKhan.html

The day after Pakistan detonated a nuclear bomb, he supposedly declared that he was "the kindest man in Pakistan" due to his habit of feeding peanuts to monkeys.

Slightly different from Oppenheimer's lament that we had become "Death, the Destroyer of Worlds."

Black Ratchet
Just another Phone Phreak from Boston

Manip wrote:
Black Ratchet wrote:Because Iran has been so honest and forthcoming before. If they say their reactor is being used for peaceful purposes, we should believe them, right?

All a nuclear reactor does is generate electricity. I think what you meant to say was you couldn't be sure they would use the enriched uranium *in* their reactor instead of a nuclear weapon.

What I "meant" to say is that they've purchased plans for a nuclear bomb from the "Black Market" which was run by the Pakistani physicist who designed their nuclear bomb. (Unsure of the name, but he's admitted he sold it to him)

Manip wrote:

Black Ratchet wrote:Also, BenZila, I take offense at the work 'hacking' being used here. These were system intrusions done by system crackers. No hacking involved. (Also, LAMP or ASP, bad programming is bad programming, and thats what caused these sites to be taken down)

If you check and up-to-date dictionary you will find the definition for 'hacking' has changed.

hack - v.tr. Informal. To alter (a computer program): hacked her text editor to read HTML.

So, Manip, I assume you use racial slurs on the street, as after all, they are in the dictionary as well. Right?

Manip

W3bbo wrote:

Manip wrote:

Black Ratchet wrote: Because Iran has been so honest and forthcoming before. If they say their reactor is being used for peaceful purposes, we should believe them, right?

All a nuclear reactor does is generate electricity. I think what you meant to say was you couldn't be sure they would use the enriched uranium *in* their reactor instead of a nuclear weapon.

Not really.

Virtually all reactors can be used to produce weapons-grade materials.

Indeed, the UK's first nuclear power station (IIRC, it was also the world's) was primarily used to produce enriched uranium (or was it plutonium?), the power generated was just a by-product.

I thought Uranium was enriched using isotope separation, which uses standard diffusion, centrifugal force, mass spectrometry (deflection) or other chemical reactions, how does a rector come into play?

Manip

So? Devil means evil god, but it didn't always... It has changed meaning, now that is what everyone uses it for. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean when someone else uses it correctly they are wrong. In fact you are in the wrong because you can't adapt to its new meaning.

Black Ratchet
Just another Phone Phreak from Boston

Manip wrote:

Black Ratchet wrote:So, Manip, I assume you use racial slurs on the street, as after all, they are in the dictionary as well. Right?

That makes no sense, in fact the logic absolutely escapes me

Unsuprising.

Sadly, I can't explain exactly what I mean as this is a public forum and it would require impolite words.

The definition of certain racial slurs include the use of "informal name for $ETHNICITY", or something of that sort. However, one doesn't use such words due to the stigma attached. However, this apparently gets all thrown out the window for the term 'hacker'. Lots of users of computer can and would consider themselves "hackers", however they can't call themselves that due to the stigma perpetrated by the use of your definition of the word.

Also, consider this, if a person of a certain minority does something illegal, do you say '$MINORITY_RACE did it', condemning the entire group? If you don't, why do you do it for hackers? If you do... Well, I guess that explains your viewpoint.

Black Ratchet
Just another Phone Phreak from Boston

Manip wrote:
So? Devil means evil god, but it didn't always... It has changed meaning, now that is what everyone uses it for. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean when someone else uses it correctly they are wrong. In fact you are in the wrong because you can't adapt to its new meaning.

Nice Parry. (Also, I can't seem to find your definition of "Devil" anywhere in the dictionary, I'll just ignore that.)

So, you say it's OK to attack an entire group of people because a couple of them (who, by the way, are condemned within the group as well), do something wrong. Because everyone else does. Right.

Are all union workers lazy?
Do all postal workers shoot up their offices?
Are all southeners racist?
Do all hackers break into computer systems illegally?

mik0r
Mikor for the win!

Pardon my hopping into this so late into the game... But, if you were the one preaching usage of the dictionary, maybe you should follow your (or whoever's) advice:

dev·il (dev'?l) n. often Devil In many religions, the major personified spirit of evil, ruler of Hell, and foe of God. Used with the.

Devil != evil god. This would mean that you based your reply on an incorrect usage of a word, and, would that not void your entire reply, based upon the reactions to BlackRatchet's replies?

Just an independant thought..

-mikor

Cider
Daze-d & Confused

Black Ratchet wrote:

So, you say it's OK to attack an entire group of people because a couple of them (who, by the way, are condemned within the group as well), do something wrong. Because everyone else does. Right.

Are all union workers lazy?
Do all postal workers shoot up their offices?
Are all southeners racist?
Do all hackers break into computer systems illegally?

Except, the point which Manip is arguing, and I agree with, is that the meaning of hacker has changed to be "someone who breaks into computer systems illegally". I'm afraid that is the common understanding of the word.

I guess those who break into computer systems but not for illegal purposes are, well, "security analysts" or something.

mik0r
Mikor for the win!

The point that BR is trying to make, I believe, is that within the security community, there is a bitterniss towards those who call themselves 'hackers' and do these illegal breaches..

*WITHIN* the community, 'hacker' does NOT imply that you partake in such activities... Maybe if those of you who are fueling this debate took a step inside the undergound community for a few you'd understand the difference.... Until then.. I doubt that will happen.

-mikor

Black Ratchet
Just another Phone Phreak from Boston

Cider wrote:

Except, the point which Manip is arguing, and I agree with, is that the meaning of hacker has changed to be "someone who breaks into computer systems illegally". I'm afraid that is the common understanding of the word..

It does not change the validity of my point.

I guess the only thing that you could say hackers are guilty of is not having a well oiled PR machine with an army of lawyers. Perplexed

Manip

This isn't a debate about what is a 'hacker' (new meaning) or what is a 'hacker' (old meaning) it is about the fact that NOW in our society, hacker, to 99.9% of 'normal people' (non-geeks) means someone who illegally breaks into computer systems.

I'd even go as far as to say that the new meaning of 'hacker' is used MORE than the old one... And thus the new meaning is the dominant one due to social majority rules.

Attacking someone for using a word accurately and correctly is stupid just because you are slow to adapt and out-dated (which is dangerous in the technology field). The old meaning of hacker now has its own word too -- leet (or l33t)

Manip

mik0r wrote:
... the fact you try to demonstrate your understand of something you clearly don't is the only stupid thing I see happening on this thread.

What to elaborate on that even a little bit?

mik0r
Mikor for the win!

... the fact you try to demonstrate your understand of something you clearly don't is the only stupid thing I see happening on this thread.

And beside that, we're you not the one calling BR out for his 'technically' incorrect definition of the word? Hmmmm Embarassed

--edit--
I'll give you the social majority rule.. But as with anything, those within the community in which the social majority has taken, have a bitter reception to such... It's not what the word has traditionally ment, and those who used it incorrectly, repeatedly, had caused the change and thus the stereotype.

That by nature causes bitterness...

mik0r
Mikor for the win!

Manip wrote:
mik0r wrote:... the fact you try to demonstrate your understand of something you clearly don't is the only stupid thing I see happening on this thread.

What to elaborate on that even a little bit?

The old meaning of hacker now has its own word too -- leet (or l33t) < I'm referring to that. That's also incorrect.

Read my edit on the above post.

Black Ratchet
Just another Phone Phreak from Boston

Manip wrote:
This isn't a debate about what is a 'hacker' (new meaning) or what is a 'hacker' (old meaning) it is about the fact that NOW in our society, hacker, to 99.9% of 'normal people' (non-geeks) means someone who illegally breaks into computer systems.

So, if everyone starting using dispariging remarks against a group you belonged to, you would sit idly by and not try to correct them on why they are wrong. Also, I love how your groupthink works: "Everyone else is using it, therefore I can as well."

Way to show independent thought. Tongue Out

Manip wrote:
The old meaning of hacker now has its own word too -- leet (or l33t)

Wow. You are totally and completely wrong. The whole 'l33t/leet/31337' really got it's start from the movie "Hackers". If anything the people that are using it either:

A. Have no clue
B. Using it in a jocular manner because it sounds stupid
or
C. Making fun of someone

Manip

Black Ratchet wrote:

Manip wrote: This isn't a debate about what is a 'hacker' (new meaning) or what is a 'hacker' (old meaning) it is about the fact that NOW in our society, hacker, to 99.9% of 'normal people' (non-geeks) means someone who illegally breaks into computer systems.

So, if everyone starting using dispariging remarks against a group you belonged to, you would sit idly by and not try to correct them on why they are wrong. Also, I love how your groupthink works: "Everyone else is using it, therefore I can as well."

Way to show independent thought.

I like how you call yourself a hacker, very egotistical of you... But also who is using the new meaning about your group? The new definition is in relation to a completely different group of people, which have not much of a connection to an original group. Plus the people that use the new meaning are not directing it at the old group, it is not their intent.

Black Ratchet wrote:
Wow. You are totally and completely wrong. The whole 'l33t/leet/31337' really got it's start from the movie "Hackers". If anything the people that are using it either:

A. Have no clue
B. Using it in a jocular manner because it sounds stupid
or
C. Making fun of someone

From hackers? Really? I'm pretty sure it pre-dates hackers the movie by a lot... And that is your opinion about what the word means, but as it is not in the dictionary you are entitled to your view on it.

David7738

Manip wrote:
They might have a point about Iran though. I mean how hypocritical is it for the UK and USA to have nuclear reactors, when in fact we could afford not to ... and to stop, with threats, a country like Iran that NEEDS that type of cheap power from having it?

The US and the UK are net importers of oil.. IRAN is a net exporter. Since the oil is government owned they couldn't get it any cheaper.. what maybe $1US / barrel compared to what $60US + that the spot market is at these days.

Iran broke a rule that most civilized countries abide by and that is that diplomats and embassies are sacrosecent. If the US hadn't been supporting Sadam and Iraq's war with Iran maybe it would have been invaded.. History people, remember it or be doomed to repeat it. There may still be sanctions against Iran by UKUS.. Reactors are great for making plutonium and tritium.. There are huge differences between an Atomic Bomb (fission) and a Hydrogen Bomb (fusion) but they both kill and there is no logical reason for any repeat ANY country to produce or own one.

Perhaps if they used a CANDU reactor things might be different.

Pandora's box has been wide open since 1945.

David7738

mik0r wrote:

Manip wrote:

mik0r wrote: ... the fact you try to demonstrate your understand of something you clearly don't is the only stupid thing I see happening on this thread.

What to elaborate on that even a little bit?

The old meaning of hacker now has its own word too -- leet (or l33t) < I'm referring to that. That's also incorrect.

Read my edit on the above post.

OMG, the movie hackers has nothing at all to do with leet.. They used social engineering to bypass physical security and a little bit about getting a password.. They did not electronically come in from outside, defeat the network security to gain access in order to get this eprom/rom.. the tom clancy movie 'patriot games' had real hacking..

LEET is short for Elite.. and most "Hackers" are in reallity 'crackers' and that is where the elite groups started.

The movie started off with 'hackers' that hacked their way into a compay.. at one time one did this to get a free outbound call.. The closest anyone had to a laptop at that time was a 'luggable' (wimps need not apply as these suckers were heavy)..

Hacking is a methodology of defeating protection (disk protection /serial numbering (keygening) and or network security) .. at one time ATT or Ma Bell security was a target (free phone calls) back in the days when transferring a 170K diskette over a 300 baud modem the long distance charges could add up rather quickly..

David7738

mik0r wrote:

The point that BR is trying to make, I believe, is that within the security community, there is a bitterniss towards those who call themselves 'hackers' and do these illegal breaches..

*WITHIN* the community, 'hacker' does NOT imply that you partake in such activities... Maybe if those of you who are fueling this debate took a step inside the undergound community for a few you'd understand the difference.... Until then.. I doubt that will happen.

-mikor

The 'white hat' hackers always have had a problem with the 'black hat' ones.. I ued to have every engineering password out there.. flip a toggle switch, enter the password and then bob's your uncle..

In college with dated printouts I used to change the system date for my run and change it back after my program was finished.. any alert system operator would have caught me red handed (faced) ahh back in the old keypunch days (JCL gotta love it)