Beer, watch this show on Outsourcing | The Coffeehouse

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

The Other Side of Outsourcing

Thomas Friedman

In India today, 1 billion, 50 millions people -- 3 and a half times the population of America -- are living in an area only 1/3 the size of the United States. It's an ancient civilization, for many people's way of life has remained relatively unchanged for generations.

But in the 21st century, a transformation is taking place. With the growing demand for computerized services, millions of jobs and billions of dollars have arrived in India.

The movement of jobs to India have sparked a heated controversy in the United States. Its negative impact on some American workers has become one of the hottest political issue of our time.

But there's another story here, beneath the surface. I'm Tom Friedman, and I've come to Bangalore, India to find out how our new-world economy is affecting the old-world society. What happens when the demands of globalization run up against the deeply held traditions of an age-old culture like India's.

dahat

Very interesting flick so far (granted I’m not Beer).

Some important quotes:

Disposable income, disposable time and 20 year olds... that sounds like an interesting combination.

Q: Why are Indians so good at all this tech stuff? What’s the secret?
A: I think it starts from their education, the education system brings in a lot of peer pressure and when you have a country with a billion people, that makes the Indian more competitive because he fights for getting the opportunities and when he fights he hones his skills in specific areas, like say the call center business.

I’ve often thought that the only solution for developing nations is to do what I like to call, glocalize. That means, finding a way to become part of the global economy by capitalizing on local talent and culture.

This is glocalization at its best. Artists adapting their traditional culture for the modern market, while creating an economic boom for their colleagues.

Q: I wondered if these up and coming Indians have any sympathy for the plight of American workers.
Q: Rajeesh, what do you make of the noise coming out of the United States now about outsourcing? Do you find that odd? Understandable?
A: It is very understandable for a population that is waking up to what I think is the real world. Because the world has changed around you and there is no such thing as barriers to be built that is going to make sense in the long run.
Q: So, what is your message? Fasten your seatbelts? You aint seen nothing yet America?
A: My message is that whats happening now is just the tip of the iceburg, and get used to it. There is a fundamental shift in the way that people are going to do business and the way that people are going to source talents that they need. It’s going to be one global marketplace and ultimately its going to benefit everybody. Give you an example, gaming, we’ve never had computer games in India. If an when the Indian market opens, that’s three-hundred-million middle class people. It’s going to create a huge market for American software because the Americans are still way ahead in making games and every dollar that people working in India at these Indian companies earns is going to create prosperity which means that any global company can come and sell it’s products here. Just remember that we are three-hundred-million middle-class, that’s more than the size of your country or the size of Europe.

Which is all the more reason why it’s very important for the westernized world to understand that so much of the wealth in the west has also come through access to global markets. You cannot have double standards in globalization. Globalization has to be a two way traffic.

Karim
Trapped in a world he never made!

It was enlightening -- hit on a few points I hadn't thought about before, such as the investment in India helping to prevent a nuclear exchange with Pakistan.

Also I hadn't realized there was an anti-globalization movement in India! Though in retrospect it seems perfectly logical. Whenever you have two systems merging like that, there are bound to be reactionary forces on both sides that want to draw boundaries and make a clear distinction between "us" and "the other." And yet, the dialectic marches on....

It also made me think that there are definitely things we should be copying from the Indians -- like taking time out of the business day to practice yoga Big Smile

I know I'd throw less chairs, anyway....

Favorite quote was from Azim Premji: "You can not have double standards in globalization."

The part at the end with the kids playing on the computers was touching -- at least to the extent one can remember being a bright-eyed kid staring into a computer screen and feeling like you'd discovered a whole new world, one that made more sense than the real one. But for me it was also sort of poignant, because I was thinking that it was just a drop in the ocean -- a handful of kids being lifted out of abject poverty -- that the "digital divide" was about the size of the Grand Canyon, and we're trying to fill it like those Indian construction workers in the show: by carrying one grueling load on our heads at a time.

Small progress is better than none...

dcoolidge99508

I posted this on the Coding Slaves blog and it seams appropriate here...

Outsourcing was always a problem, or a good thing. We've always outsourced when someone could do it better and cheaper. Look at the automobile market. We've outsourced cars for sometime now because other countries are able to produce good replacements, if not sometimes better, for cheaper. We try to counter that with import taxes and things but Toyota has proved that even with the heavy taxes it can outsell American cars. I don't know what we can do to fix this.

Except for embrace it and see how we can make money err... wealth off of this global change.

Svendawg
Arrrrg....

Interesting vid. Watched it between episodes of Trailer Park Boy's. Cool

Couple of items were not touched on in the video that I feel should have been. The caste system, the traditional chauvinism and the fact that India, more so than other parts of Asia, was pulled into the Western world by Brittian Imperialism.

This 'immersion' in Western Culture is just a re-run for the Indian People... and they are embracing it and

Karim
Trapped in a world he never made!

dcoolidge99508 wrote:
I posted this on the Coding Slaves blog and it seams appropriate here...

Outsourcing was always a problem, or a good thing. We've always outsourced when someone could do it better and cheaper. Look at the automobile market. We've outsourced cars for sometime now because other countries are able to produce good replacements, if not sometimes better, for cheaper. We try to counter that with import taxes and things but Toyota has proved that even with the heavy taxes it can outsell American cars. I don't know what we can do to fix this.

Except for embrace it and see how we can make money err... wealth off of this global change.

When you mentioned outsourcing and cars, I wasn't sure which way you meant.

Back in the 1970s, American car companies produced some really crappy products. And saw their market share eaten by Japanese and German companies.

The response to this was a lot of saber-rattling about protectionist measures. And the occasional torched Datsun.

What do we have now? The Japanese build cars here. Honda builds cars in the U.S. Mercedes-Benz builds cars in the U.S. Pretty much every Honda sold in the U.S. is built in the U.S., and on top of that, the U.S. Honda plant exports to other countries. Toyota has built billions of dollars of plants in the U.S. and put hundreds of thousands of jobs in the U.S. economy.

One fourth of all cars sold in the U.S. are made in the U.S. by foreign companies.

Do Americans care that Japanese and German companies have lost jobs to Americans?

The automobile industry is massively global. Parts are made everywhere, assembled everywhere, sold everywhere. Car companies are multinational conglomerates.

So -- again -- when you said "we've" outsourced cars -- who is "we" and to where did we outsource them? Big Smile

dahat

It does kinda contradict the bleak view that Beer keeps portraying... no doubt after watching it he’ll claim it was all staged, and only the end in the small village was the way that all of India is.

The opposition we hear in it is interesting too... as the same arguments are heard almost everywhere... including in the United States.

Svendawg: I agree, some more on the casts would have been nice, but then Lalita Law (the school principal) did have a bit to say on it:

Q: The kids in your school, what do their parents do?
A: They belong to the lowest casts of Indian society. They’re not supposed to be near people of the upper casts because they will contaminate the very air that they breathe.
Q: They are untouchables?
A: Yes, they are untouchables.

One can only hope that with sufficient opportunities and pressure that such things can change... sadly any change probably would not as quickly as many would like.

Svendawg
Arrrrg....

Great example on the cars. My honda product was actually assembled in CA.

One question that I forgot to pose:

In the beginning of the vid, the journalish stated

"In India today, 1 billion, 50 millions people -- 3 and a half times the population of America -- are living in an area only 1/3 the size of the United States."

Does that size figure take Alaska into account? If so, it's a tad bit misleading.

dahat

Svendawg wrote:
"In India today, 1 billion, 50 millions people -- 3 and a half times the population of America -- are living in an area only 1/3 the size of the United States."

Does that size figure take Alaska into account? If so, it's a tad bit misleading.

According to the CIA world factbook, the land measures are as follows:

India: 2,973,190 sq km
US: 9,161,923 sq km

With a bit of math we end up with the US having ~3.08 times as much land area... including Alaska, so their figure is accurate.

Svendawg
Arrrrg....

"With a bit of math we end up with the US having ~3.08 times as much land area... including Alaska, so their figure is accurate."

It's in the ballpark. Or as an old stats prof would say "good enough for govt. work" Wink

I just wanted to point out that AK is not what most (and I doubt many from india) would call inhabitable. Nor is it densly populated at the moment. Perhaps with another 100 years of global warming. Wink

So what I would call the 'real' population density figures would skew a bit with AK included.

Anyway, it was a good vid and it was great to put some actual faces behind those funny accents we encounter, from time to time, on the phone...

j0217995

It was interesting that Toyota had a truck in the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series this year. NASCAAR for those that don't follow it or know is the North American Sports Car Association of Racing. Rules are very specific on what manufactures can participate in it. Their truck is made in North America so now they can race it. Toyota is also looking at getting some of its cars to qualify as well

zzzzz
Yes its an Economy vehicle

India's traditional culture will die. it can not exsit in a fast moving world we live in. This is the problem Africa and the middle east they will not change their culture to fit our needs.

The US government is very anti-manufacturing now these days with so many regulations companies must complie to. If this does not stop and allow Companies make money no job will be left in this country. Innovation can only solve so many problems.

China and India don't enforce their labor laws because it hurts business and they need businesses for jobs

1million applications for 9000 jobs.

Just added 3 jobs got 45 applications.

DoomBringer
Doom!

I really hope India can ditch the age old caste system. It is illegal, but that doesn't stop most people from using it.

Detroit Muscle
Wii!

dcoolidge99508 wrote:
I posted this on the Coding Slaves blog and it seams appropriate here...

Outsourcing was always a problem, or a good thing. We've always outsourced when someone could do it better and cheaper. Look at the automobile market. We've outsourced cars for sometime now because other countries are able to produce good replacements, if not sometimes better, for cheaper. We try to counter that with import taxes and things but Toyota has proved that even with the heavy taxes it can outsell American cars. I don't know what we can do to fix this.

Except for embrace it and see how we can make money err... wealth off of this global change.

The reason Toyota and Honda are so succesful in North America is because their cars role off of US assembly lines.