Neowin: More than half of Microsoft Vista needs re-writing | The Coffeehouse

TomasDeml
Run Chiro, Run!

Neowin: More than half of Microsoft Vista needs re-writing

WTF? Sad

rjdohnert
You will never know success until you know failure

Rumor, dont pay no attention to rumors.

JohnAskew
9 girl in pink sweater

It's called iterative coding. I take this as good news, personally, and delays are no issue for me, for that matter.

My favorite part of that article is the statement that this whole issue began with a "staff revolt" where programmers stood up to management within Microsoft. Kudos. Bravo. Never let the kids run the kindergarten class!

Courage and commitment; I see this as a win-win for MS and the coders who are, "at the end of the day", the responsible parties.

(You should see just how much code these guys can generate in a month).

jamie

another link - from forbes:

"Vista not People Ready"

http://www.forbes.com/technology/2006/03/22/vista-microsoft-ballmer_cz_dl_0322microsoft.html

Manip

Checkout the cost effects for Microsoft here (this graph does update).

DoomBringer
Doom!

Rumor, but I'm not surprised, most all code in existance needs a few rewrites.

rjdohnert
You will never know success until you know failure

The Forbes article should be titled

"The Failure of Microsoft"

We all know that in December 2006 they will push Vista to November of 2007 then in March of 2007 they will push it back to January 2008.

Manip

I think something IS going on, perhaps not as big as suggested (60% + staff uprising) but based on what has NOT been said on this topic you know there is something.

If none of it was true you'd have lots of Microsoft-ees posting "What a load of bull... It isn't nearly that bad..."

But instead you have complete silence.

rjdohnert
You will never know success until you know failure

Well dude, they are busy. They have 60% of the code to rewrite and they have put Scoble down in front of a terminal to show his programming prowess.

blatzcoder wrote:
Odd. Scoble's blog is suddenly silent. Where have all the Microsoft employees on Channel 9 gone all of a sudden? They were here a day or two ago.

Manip

brian.shapiro wrote:
So people are going to switch to open-source stuff just because Vista is delayed?

And people are going to switch to Linux and other open-source OSs because they will be less "complicated" for an ordinary person than Vista?

I mean, come on. How much can this guy understand?

NO NO NO

If this topic turns into another "My open source is better than your closed" I'm out of here for a few days. I'm really sick of EVERY topic coming back to that. You don't see Pro-Apple trolls posting like this, do you?

DMassy
Driving!

rjdohnert wrote:
Well dude, they are busy. They have 60% of the code to rewrite and they have put Scoble down in front of a terminal to show his programming prowess.

blatzcoder wrote: Odd. Scoble's blog is suddenly silent. Where have all the Microsoft employees on Channel 9 gone all of a sudden? They were here a day or two ago.

We are all busy and I'm taking a day of down time after MIX. My son is napping at the moment so I thought I'd drop by.
Has anyone been watching the IE team blog at http://blogs.msdn.com/ie? The last couple of posts have been interesting.

Thanks
-Dave

brian.shapiro
things go on as always

jamie wrote:

another link - from forbes:

"Vista not People Ready"

http://www.forbes.com/technology/2006/03/22/vista-microsoft-ballmer_cz_dl_0322microsoft.html

jamie,

I don't know how much of the article you can take seriously with a paragraph like this

Forbes wrote:

Given Microsoft's delays I can't believe open-source stuff still hasn't caught on for desktop computers. It's amazing, but people will wait months and months for products that are so complicated that no ordinary person can figure out how to use them.

So people are going to switch to open-source stuff just because Vista is delayed?

And people are going to switch to Linux and other open-source OSs because they will be less "complicated" for an ordinary person than Vista?

I mean, come on. How much can this guy understand?

rjdohnert
You will never know success until you know failure

Sit down before you blow your pacemaker. He isnt turning it into that type of argument, the Forbes article said it and he was just commenting on it.

Manip wrote:

brian.shapiro wrote: So people are going to switch to open-source stuff just because Vista is delayed?

And people are going to switch to Linux and other open-source OSs because they will be less "complicated" for an ordinary person than Vista?

I mean, come on. How much can this guy understand?

NO NO NO

If this topic turns into another "My open source is better than your closed" I'm out of here for a few days. I'm really sick of EVERY topic coming back to that. You don't see Pro-Apple trolls posting like this, do you?

brian.shapiro
things go on as always

Manip wrote:

brian.shapiro wrote: So people are going to switch to open-source stuff just because Vista is delayed?

And people are going to switch to Linux and other open-source OSs because they will be less "complicated" for an ordinary person than Vista?

I mean, come on. How much can this guy understand?

NO NO NO

If this topic turns into another "My open source is better than your closed" I'm out of here for a few days. I'm really sick of EVERY topic coming back to that. You don't see Pro-Apple trolls posting like this, do you?

I don't know who you're criticizing Manip, but I don't the the topic will turn to that. I wasn't even commenting on which was better, open source or closed source. I was just questioning how in touch with things the Forbes writer was when making statements like that. The things he was suggesting in that paragraph were just odd.

But I expect we'll see a mass of articles by fans of other systems taking advantage of any bad news or bad rumors about Microsoft to bash them into the ground and promote Apple or Linux.

DMassy
Driving!

Wow there's alot of speculation going on and there seem to be a lot of people taking that speculation as fact.
The truth is that Vista needs a little extra time to get it to the quality level that is needed. Sorry the truth really is not more exciting than that.
Thanks
-Dave

jamie

my point was forbes called it messy. that was news enough for me.

ok thread jack - How would you fix vista?

here's my top 10 list:

1. go back to the slate styled explorer layouts: the one with smaller Ahead button than Back, where the breadcrumb bar disappeared into the address bar .. and start from there again. Have glass as one of the themes - but default the os needs a grey more industrial style.

2. remove all the drm stuff to score points for being so late.

3. return the user interface to the user - give us our coolbars back (not the locked uncoolbars) - pop a big warning: "Certain websites may be able to spoof your toolbar..blabla" (dont show this message again) box. ensure we can space the address bar and search bar how ever wide we want - and where we want, -separate or off. in ie as well - stop taking things away

4. Unify the UI: if the start bar is black (or gray whatever colour) - the windows should be that too. same for sidebar.

5. Make explorer integration an option you can turn on. i like one window going between web/file. we've had this for 6 years or more. if you must - turn it off by default - stop taking things away

6. Make [up] an option to turn on - stop taking things away

7. Add a "Show only critical warnings" option. vista talks too much

8. Add the Luna theme - and make it work just like xp (toolbars icons wallpaper et all. This will make the new changes easy to get into - and try out with a saftey net there. also seriously take a look at classic mode and spiff it up - its looking strange

9. Give us the option to set the width of the Startbar. ID like mine to go half way across the screen to see more programs at one time.

10. fix bugs and ship

brian.shapiro
things go on as always

jamie, when transparency is turned off, Vista's windows are grey , aren't they?

Chadk
excuse me - do you has a flavor?

DMassy wrote:
Wow there's alot of speculation going on and there seem to be a lot of people taking that speculation as fact.
The truth is that Vista needs a little extra time to get it to the quality level that is needed. Sorry the truth really is not more exciting than that.
Thanks
-Dave

What does that mean?
All code can use a few months extra. Just look at Duke Nukem forever, or any other vaporware software.

Last thing i heard was that it was pushed back till January, for all but companys. Have this been changed again?

Chadk
excuse me - do you has a flavor?

blatzcoder wrote:

DMassy wrote: Wow there's alot of speculation going on and there seem to be a lot of people taking that speculation as fact.
The truth is that Vista needs a little extra time to get it to the quality level that is needed. Sorry the truth really is not more exciting than that.
Thanks
-Dave
But why are the high-volume licensees getting it first, and not the home crowd? It was stated somewhere that it was "security related". Wouldn't the business side need more security than the home users?

Soo true!!!!
It might just be because that the home users is such a big crowd, compared to the big companys.

If Microsoft shipped a product, thats just a bit bugged, my parrents would go nuts. Security and realiabillty is very importent.

Jason Cox
Longtime C9 Lurker

My opinion on this is that if 60% of something needs to be rewritten, what is that something? Are we talking 60% of core Windows code, 60% of Media Center code or 60% combined of a bunch of smaller items? I dont think this is as big of a deal as the techs sites are making it...

Chadk
excuse me - do you has a flavor?

Jason Cox wrote:
My opinion on this is that if 60% of something needs to be rewritten, what is that something? Are we talking 60% of core Windows code, 60% of Media Center code or 60% combined of a bunch of smaller items? I dont think this is as big of a deal as the techs sites are making it...

From what i heard, it was the media center that had the issues.

But i dont really believe in that number.
I do understand if some smalls parts needs to be rewritten.

rjdohnert
You will never know success until you know failure

Well DMassy, people are just very dissapointed. First Windows Vista is delayed, then Office is delayed, Im expecting any day now for you guys to come back and tell us that IE7 is going to be delayed. It certainly brings up a good question of whether Microsoft can meet demand or at least deliver a product. Cmon now, Vista is 3 years late originally slated for a 2003 release. Its frustrating because we go to these conferences and Microsoft is saying "Innovate, Innovate, Innovate" and they show us the upcoming tools and come back every few monts and say " Oh no, they arent ready yet." Only pirates and businesses will have Windows Vista before 2007 now.

DMassy wrote:
Wow there's alot of speculation going on and there seem to be a lot of people taking that speculation as fact.
The truth is that Vista needs a little extra time to get it to the quality level that is needed. Sorry the truth really is not more exciting than that.
Thanks
-Dave

footballism
Another Paradigm Shift!

Sixty percent of Vista code needs to be rewritten:O

You must be kidding.

Sheva

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

I actually heard it's 85%. And they're taking away one pound of M&Ms from each developer.

Really.

It's on the internet, so it MUST be true!

Chadk
excuse me - do you has a flavor?

PaoloM wrote:

I actually heard it's 85%. And they're taking away one pound of M&Ms from each developer.

Really.

It's on the internet, so it MUST be true!

OH NO!!!
One pound. Poor poor guys..
I also think that they need to rewrite the kernal, and the UI.

I say it, so it MUST be true!