Neowin: More than half of Microsoft Vista needs re-writing | The Coffeehouse

Karim
Trapped in a world he never made!

LarryOsterman wrote:
That answer gives you all the information you need to understand the difference (really it does). All you need to do is to ask yourself questions about that paragraph. All the information you need to derive what the root cause answer might be is in the paragraph, if you just think about the information that you already have.

I thought about this really hard for a couple of minutes and then burst out laughing.

There's actually a thread about that, isn't there?

Sorry. You said no more hints. [A]

EDIT: I am reminded of that scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail where Sir Bedevere uses the Socratic Method to help the villagers with a witch hunt.

Sir Osterman: There are ways of telling why Vista is delayed.

mVPstar
I'm white because I smelt an onion.

Karim wrote:
There's actually a thread about that, isn't there?

Not to mention an MS Employee who wrote the answer to this question in a very thorough post...

Whoops, did I give another hint? [6]

the-laughing-man

I got into work this morning, told a friend I was a part of the Vista Beta to which he replied "haha, 60% of the code needs re-writing!" so naturally I asked him "where'd you hear that rubbish?" and the answer ladies and gentlemen yes you've guessed it - Slashdot Tongue Out

After doing a little beta testing I'd certainly say it needs a lot of work but 'half' sounds like something a Linux Evangelist would come out with

LarryOsterman

Karim wrote:

I thought about this really hard for a couple of minutes and then burst out laughing.

There's actually a thread about that, isn't there?

Sorry. You said no more hints.

EDIT: I am reminded of that scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail where Sir Bedevere uses the Socratic Method to help the villagers with a witch hunt.

Sir Osterman: There are ways of telling why Vista is delayed.

I hadn't seen that part, but yup, that's the big difference between volume license corps and new PC sales.

But IMHO, there's another part of the reason for the 2 months. Can you figure it out?

Btw, can you tell I edited that stupid paragraph way too many times? I can't even read what it says and I wrote it.

mVPstar
I'm white because I smelt an onion.

LarryOsterman wrote:
But IMHO, there's another part of the reason for the 2 months. Can you figure it out?

Other than what's in that thread?

And also other than the whole shipping during "second holiday season/christmas" and shipping Christmas season is bad because it would be too late?

Or because releasing during the start of the year is more appealing than the end of the year?

Hmmm...

Karim
Trapped in a world he never made!

LarryOsterman wrote:

Karim wrote:

I thought about this really hard for a couple of minutes and then burst out laughing.

There's actually a thread about that, isn't there?

Sorry. You said no more hints.

EDIT: I am reminded of that scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail where Sir Bedevere uses the Socratic Method to help the villagers with a witch hunt.

Sir Osterman: There are ways of telling why Vista is delayed.

I hadn't seen that part, but yup, that's the big difference between volume license corps and new PC sales.

But IMHO, there's another part of the reason for the 2 months. Can you figure it out?

Btw, can you tell I edited that stupid paragraph way too many times? I can't even read what it says and I wrote it.

LOL paragraph seemed fine to me... it compiled the first time, anyway

I'm with mVPstar... after slapping my forehead and laughing, I just kind of figured the delay would put things too close to Christmas generally. Shipping companies get really busy, retailers start cramming crap into their shelves... or maybe it's a media thing? Can't get a decent media buy mid-December? People go on vacation? I just figured there was something about the holidays that meant they had to be skipped entirely, once you got close enough. I'm assuming it's something an outsider could guess (i.e. not requiring insider knowledge) and not something totally arcane (e.g. CD printer is Zoroastrian and they have a religious holiday from November 27-December 3)

I did puzzle over the first thing for the longest time, though. And once I saw it, it was like 10 other formerly-confusing facts just snapped into place. That's why I laughed. It was like putting together a jigsaw puzzle and not having ANY idea of what it was a picture of, then someone points out a piece, and you put it in place and then all of a sudden the picture just LEAPS out at you. Big Smile

jamie

i think you meant: Give the Gift of Vista for Christmas

although...only to enemies haha runs

* the reason is - who supports that install when things go nutty...

* i hear MS East doesnt charge for that service! Wink

mVPstar
I'm white because I smelt an onion.

But what I don't get is, why can't there be some sort of preorder/coming soon thing where customers will get a chance to preorder retail copies of Vista?

Or better yet....Vista Gift Cards!

Think about it, if you can't give the gift of Vista for Christmas, you can give the gift of a Vista preorder gift card.

You could sell a Vista Ultimate Edition gift card, which would have a printed product key. All you would have to do is go to the nearest computer store and redeem your Vista cd.

Cool idea eh? Cool

Where's Jamie...?

Now I'm sure the multidude of printing presses out there wont hold you up on this one and force you to delay Vista again. Wink

EDIT: Actually meant gift of Vista for Christmas

mVPstar
I'm white because I smelt an onion.

Fixed.

Who supports it? It's a gift card with just a product key and a claim to a Vista CD.

But Jamie, you really should come back to the dark side (of Windows?).

The Vista is much nicer on this side.

You cannot run, for one day XP might turn on you and Vista will come to the rescue.

toast

I was wondering when FOSS might enter into this discussion that goes around in circles.

One question for all you FOSS lovers out there: When the world has converted to FOSS, how is anyone going to get paid to work on their FOSS applications?

Perhaps the world really is moving toward a spiritual reality where people are motivated "for the benefit of others"? Isn't that what FOSS is all about?

OSS people should know better as to what might be causing the delays. I'll add to Larry Osterman's very valid pointer to the truth [as Larry is in a position to know]. The number of third parties involved in readying their applications, runtimes, drivers and other components for Vista is absolutely staggering. There is no other software platform in the world that comes close to involving so many third parties.

The OS is pretty much feature complete. Now OEM maturation is underway and this involves another round of HUGE effort for everyone involved. More so for Microsoft, because they have to co-ordinate it all.

Also, for those that have short memories, this is the only OS from Microsoft that has seen so much input and collaboration by third parties, testers and interested communities, prior to release. All of this ongoing input MUST IMPACT TIMELINES.

So all you hypocrites that demand a more open and accessible Microsoft better think of the results of involvment on this scale.

If the people on this thread have failed to see this, then I can only think that their lack of insight is being blocked by their egos and overly zealous opinions.

There are many people posting in this thread who have said very sensible things at other times. Unfortunately their wits seem to have succumbed to the rabid rantings of non-name journalists, bloggers and forum posters:

suc·cumb Pronunciation (s-km)
intr.v. suc·cumbed, suc·cumb·ing, suc·cumbs
1. To submit to an overpowering force or yield to an overwhelming desire; give up or give in.

LarryOsterman

mVPstar wrote:

LarryOsterman wrote: But IMHO, there's another part of the reason for the 2 months. Can you figure it out?

Other than what's in that thread?

And also other than the whole shipping during "second holiday season/christmas" and shipping Christmas season is bad because it would be too late?

Or because releasing during the start of the year is more appealing than the end of the year?

Hmmm...

I think I've been drinking the cool-aid too long. The thing I'm thinking about is fairly obvious to me (it takes some extrapolation), but maybe isn't outside the borg collective.

mVPstar
I'm white because I smelt an onion.

LarryOsterman wrote:
I think I've been drinking the cool-aid too long. The thing I'm thinking about is fairly obvious to me (it takes some extrapolation), but maybe isn't outside the borg collective.

What flavor? Smiley

Is it that PC manufacturers actually need the 2 months (to test final version, make sure they have necessary hardware) (not just having to do with the holiday season)?

Or does it have anything to do with remaining competitive to Leopard?

Or that 2 months is a nice round number, and something like 1 1/2 months or 1 3/4 months is messy? But then again, this would assume that the final release date for consumers is a nice number like January 1st.

Hmmm...can you please ship a carton of your coolaid ASAP?

bonk
Ich bin der Wurstfachverkäuferin !

Mary Jo: "Vista Rewrite: Fat Chance"

LarryOsterman

mVPstar wrote:

LarryOsterman wrote: I think I've been drinking the cool-aid too long. The thing I'm thinking about is fairly obvious to me (it takes some extrapolation), but maybe isn't outside the borg collective.

What flavor?

Is it that PC manufacturers actually need the 2 months (to test final version, make sure they have necessary hardware) (not just having to do with the holiday season)?

Ok, it's the blue cool-aide.

rjdohnert
You will never know success until you know failure

Thats actually the best flavor of Kool-Aid. I also use it as a chaser sometimes.

LarryOsterman wrote:

mVPstar wrote:

LarryOsterman wrote: I think I've been drinking the cool-aid too long. The thing I'm thinking about is fairly obvious to me (it takes some extrapolation), but maybe isn't outside the borg collective.

What flavor?

Is it that PC manufacturers actually need the 2 months (to test final version, make sure they have necessary hardware) (not just having to do with the holiday season)?

Ok, it's the blue cool-aide.

AndyC

LarryOsterman wrote:

Ok, it's the blue cool-aide.

Never drink blue drinks.

The really potent stuff is always blue...

Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me

Er duh. He is writing a new book.

CHANNEL9 THE FOLLOW UP!

LOL! What?!?!
Not again! [6]

So do people think Beer actually has a case against Tommy Carlier? I really doubt it since his book is allegedly all bullsnip.

Hey Tommy do you still use Euphoria? Robert has layed out his plans for the 3.0 alpha release.

BTW, I know Tommy from the Euphoria programming language community so it was a suprise to find him here. Tongue Out

Regards,
Vincent

mVPstar
I'm white because I smelt an onion.

LarryOsterman wrote:

Ok, it's the blue cool-aide.

Well, blue is supposed to mean "youth, spirituality, truth, peace" (The Meaning of Colors) so perhaps you're drinking the purple kind instead "Royalty, magic, mystery"?

Does it have to do with the fact it takes less time to make cds for volume licensing (as you only need one cd to install on all comps in an organization) than to make cds which PC manufacturers can use (will need a cd for each installation)?

TommyCarlier
I want my scalps!

Hi, Vincent. At the moment, I don't use Euphoria anymore, but I still follow the mailing list a bit. And I still maintain (=removing spam) the UBoard. Maybe I'll try Euphoria again later, but not right now. I've been having an on-and-off relationship with Euphoria for years now Wink

magnets

Forbes wrote:

Given Microsoft's delays I can't believe open-source stuff still hasn't caught on for desktop computers. It's amazing, but people will wait months and months for products that are so complicated that no ordinary person can figure out how to use them.

Today I primarily use PHP, HTML, javascript and MySQL to develop applications. (Microsoft's application development tools are far too complex and have too many dependencies.) Most of my applications run on Apache and Linux.

But, it will probably be a decade before I again try to use Linux on the desktop. For a client PC, Linux is absolutely a nightmare and no vendor seems to care. Basic stuff like installing a display monitor and getting it configured properly just doesn't happen. With Windows, configuring properly for a monitor is a non-event - it just works. I suspect that Red-Hat and other Linux providers are more interested in revenue from 'server' customer support.

andokai

magnets wrote:
Microsoft's application development tools are far too complex and have too many dependencies.

I'm curious about these complexities and dependancies you speak of. Care to enlighten us?