What would *you* say.... | The Coffeehouse

MisterDonut
The Disco Godfather

To an average person who is deciding whether or not to buy a computer, and which computer to buy?

I was specifically thinking the Apple or Windows route, but I'm open to anything.

My own opinion would be, first, if you have your heart set on a computer and it isn't Windows 95 based... you better get it, since you've already decided (and possibly give warnings on those decisions). But, I'm finding myself, more and more, telling people to look at Apple's computers due to a much lower frequency of infection, less incidents (that I'm aware of) of hacking, etc. Not to mention the free tools that make them giggle (GarageBand, etc.). They look at some of the designs and say "cool". I haven' seen that in Microsoft technology for users.

Can someone shed some light on me and if needed (politely) show me the error of my ways?

Please, no flames here.. I'm sincerely looking for some feedback, but don't want to start a posting battle.

Manip

The Mac is easier to use but has less functionality. So if you want to type up some word doc's, print them and other basic tasks then a Mac is a good idea. It is also fully web enabled so you can do anything on a Mac that you could do on a PC when the web is concerned.

If however you want games then you are definitely looking at a PC. Although the Mac as a few games released on it you only get a new title once in a blue moon and not a wide verity. The PC is also more customizable if that is important.

For most people it comes down to price. The Mac is simply more expensive than a PC and that is something that is a deciding factor for a lot of people (and why the PC won the platform wars first round).

If your looking at only security then you can never win. No platform is 100% secure, not the Mac, not Windows and not Linux. I wouldn't choose a platform based on its security, security it a constant battle.

Note: I am discussing *modern versions of these platforms not Win95 or old Mac's.

pablo

I think Mr Donut owns an Apple and he starts this thread for a joke.

kenfine
heaven and earth

Two weeks ago I bought two Dell 400SC computers for $319 each, shipped. They're 2.8 gigahertz machines with 800mhz buses. They're faster than any Mac I've used. They're quieter than any Mac I've used; you can't even tell they're running. They're a few thousand dollars less. And they'll run the applications that I want them to.

This is not a pricing anomoly. I bought five of these machines for approximately the same price for my workplace. I deploy them as servers and database boxes.

If you depended on databases and development to make your living, you'd look at something like SQL Server, and you'd also might say "cool". If you designed 200MB .EPS files on a ~$319 Dell 400SC and then had the experience of trying to work with the same file on a $2000+ Mac, you might also begin to think the PC was "cool". If you play UT2004 or any other sort of graphics intensive game, you'll definitely prefer the design of a PC.

I prefer PCs because they're faster, they're cheaper, they aren't built on a closed hardware or software ecosystem. This openness leads me to become a smarter worker.

That's my answer based on my needs. Everybody has to find the path that makes sense for their needs. There isn't a blanket answer that fits everyone.

Manip

opps, you couldn't have picked a worse example.. UT2003 is one of the very few games that IS out on the Mac. But I hear what your saying. I agree. For someone like you a Mac is a bad idea but it is designed for near computer illiterate people - 'noobs'. Smiley

MisterDonut
The Disco Godfather

pablo wrote:
I think Mr Donut owns an Apple and he starts this thread for a joke.

Nah.. Mrs. Donut has a Mac OS 9 which I know *nothing* about, except she routinely uses my computer (XP Pro) for, since hers is largely incompatible with everything (no Native USB ports, for one!)

Thanks for all the info so far, guys..

Karim
Trapped in a world he never made!

Macs are not intrinsically more secure, but they do get hacked less... mostly because there are less of them. (Who writes viruses for OS/2, either?)

I work with and support Macs, and I have to say that they're not any more reliable either. This is partly due to the fact that PC hardware is pretty much commoditized; inside a modern Mac you'll find the same PCI bus, memory modules, IDE hard drives etc. that you'll find in a PC. Software-wise, I've seen Macs need just as many (or as few) random restarts and OS reinstalls as PCs. That's just anecdotal, and just my opinion, but you asked Smiley

In general there's a lot more software for PCs. Pretty much anything you can find on the Mac that says "cool," you can find several versions of on the PC platform. (Though the UI may not be as polished.)

Also, in general the price/performance is a lot better on PCs. Any time you look at something on a Mac and say "Cool!" just remember that you'll be paying more than the equivalent functionality or performance on a PC.

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/11_nov/reviews/cw_macvspciii.htm

But basically, you really can't ask "which computer to buy" any more than you can ask "which car to buy." It depends on your wants, needs, budget....

Bogusrabin

Depends what user is going to do with it.

Windows/x86 is nice, OSX/PPC is nice.

But I think Linux would be very good choice too nowadays.
It's fast, easy to use, user get all "common programs" in default
installing, etc.

So I say Linux/x86 (Linux/PPC)

Keskos

MisterDonut wrote:
To an average person who is deciding whether or not to buy a computer, and which computer to buy?

I was specifically thinking the Apple or Windows route, but I'm open to anything.

My own opinion would be, first, if you have your heart set on a computer and it isn't Windows 95 based... you better get it, since you've already decided (and possibly give warnings on those decisions). But, I'm finding myself, more and more, telling people to look at Apple's computers due to a much lower frequency of infection, less incidents (that I'm aware of) of hacking, etc. Not to mention the free tools that make them giggle (GarageBand, etc.). They look at some of the designs and say "cool". I haven' seen that in Microsoft technology for users.

Can someone shed some light on me and if needed (politely) show me the error of my ways?

Please, no flames here.. I'm sincerely looking for some feedback, but don't want to start a posting battle.

Apple's way is to use branding to lure customers. It is like a candy shop. Apple has a various number of problems, first it costs a lot, second it offers less functionality, where it excels though is it bundles bunch of applications with the operating system and that offers a good value, such as imovie etc... So overall it is not so bad, but for the long term I think you will end up spending more for less. Apple usually upgrades its OS more frequently, and mostly for unimportant reasons, changes buttons' shapes, colors, icons etc... Along the way it fixes bugs, introduces few new programs. The problem is that you are forced to upgrade, because many programs are available only for the latest macos. For example, check out many macos x programs, some can only work on jaguar, some will work with the most recent one. The problem is that, say you bought an Apple now, within 3 years you will have to buy another one. With PCs it is not like this anymore, since Microsoft doesn't upgrade its OS frequently. Apple makes its money through hardware sells, not software, that's why you need the best hardware from apple to run their software comfortably.
I wouldn't recommend Apple at all. Sticking with windows is much better no matter what. All the skills you have learned in windows 95 are still relevant in windows xp and will be in longhorn, but for Apple users, they had a major change from os 9 to os x.

MisterDonut
The Disco Godfather

Karim wrote:

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/11_nov/reviews/cw_macvspciii.htm

Couldn't help but notice the 2002 Date on it.. I wonder how the same reviewer would look at the G5.

Ah well. Thanks for all of input so far!

-J

scobleizer
I'm the video guy

I love Macs. My brother-in-law works at Apple and we gotta keep the family employed. Smiley

That said, can you do this stuff with your Mac?

Translation: buy a computer for what it'll do for you. Yes, think about the costs of keeping it up. But, you gotta make the decision not just on that, but on what it actually does.

It's impossible to answer this question with a blanket answer. For some people the Mac is the right answer. For others, Windows is the right answer. For yet others, Linux is the right answer.

If I ran a store and was selling you a computer, I'd be asking a whole lot of questions.

1) Do you want to move around with your computer? (IE, do you wanna go hang out in the library or the Starbucks or the airport with your computer?)
2) Do you need it to do work with a corporate network? How often? What kind? (Need to know your email server, what kind of VPN, whether or not you have specialized apps that'll run only on Windows like Groove)
3) Are you looking for the best deal, or the best computer?
4) Do you use a video camcorder? Do you see yourself using that in the next three years?
5) Do you play video games? If so, what kind?
6) What do your friends use? Is there a geek in your life? What does he/she use?
7) Are you already familiar with a computer? Which one?
8) Do you have a home network? Are you expecting to own more than one computing device (keep in mind, that even things like Xboxs and Tivos are now networked computing devices).
9) Will you be looking to sync stuff with cell phones or PDAs? If so, which ones?
10) Do you read a lot on screen? RSS feeds, eBooks, or lots of email?)
11) Do you own a music device? If so, what kind, if not, do you see yourself potentially getting one?
12) Are you in the market for a personal video recorder? (er, a Tivo or a Windows Media Center)

Each question would help me take you down the sales process. This is exactly how I sold cameras. Your answers would cause more branches.

Keep in mind, not all of these questions would lead me to sell a Microsoft-based computer. I'm sure there's a few other questions that'd be good to ask too.

It might be fun to explore the right questions to ask first.

eagle

Computers are evolving, in two years many of us will have 50" LCD screens with all sorts of devices networked together in our homes. We will walk around with Tablets that we will talk to as we listen to music and the voices of our friends and families.

Manip

I think two years is over-estimating the speed of advancement.. but still sounds cool. I am *so* sick of having things like Doom3 to look at and am still on a 15" monitor. Games like that are designed to be seen and it deserves a screen that fills up most of my wall. Smiley

Can you imagine a clippy bigger than your head? Tongue Out

buzzmodo
buzzmodo

Dude....

All good questions, but as you and I have discussed, whenever I seem to be at events and wonder around during the breaks and look at what people are using, I am blown away by how many of the attendees are using ThinkPads. My guess is that at most of the high tech events that I have been at 70% of those with notebooks have ThinkPads, maybe 10% PowerBooks, 10% Dells, 10% Sony Vaios.

Those numbers really haven't changed much over time. I have yet to walk into a Starbuck's and see someone using a Tablet to read the N.Y. Times online.

With my ThinkPad T-41 and the extended battery, I have gotten as much as 7.5 hours of battery life. All these wonderful ideas, i.e. blogging, WiFi, RSS, etc. don't work when you don't have power, and crawling around on the floor looking for a plug isn't much fun.

I think that I can do everything on your list (haven't tried games) with my ThinkPad, and would unconditionally recommend it to anyone reading this.

scobleizer
I'm the video guy

Buzz: unless you were at the DNC, and then it looked like this.

Keskos

scobleizer wrote:
Buzz: unless you were at the DNC, and then it looked like this.

Looks like lots of tablet pcs there.

buzzmodo
buzzmodo

I saw that picture, and I was not surprised, but I guess my travels haven't put me in an evironment where people had and were using tablets.

I am probably prejudiced both by our software, i.e. ActiveWords coupled with how bad my hadwriting is.

I might change my mind if my ThinkPad were a convertible like the Toshiba's that I have seen.

Jaz
From the depths of Wales I come

it would seem though that Apple have patented their own Tablet PC design so the Tablet Apple might be just around the corner...

buzzmodo
buzzmodo

I am sure there is no reason why Apple wouldn't be able to do a great Tablet, but my friends with TiBooks tell me that battery life sucks.

I think the key to great tablet is 5-6 hours of battery life.

My ThinkPad has gotten 7.5 hours with the extended battery which I think is sensational.

wavelet

Here is a Web-based PC recommender aimed at the average user:

http://www.exactchoice.com

It asks a series of questions and then provides recommendations. It's for new Windows PCs only, not (yet) Macs.

For those who care, a few technical points of interest:

(1) It searches among all possible configurations of customizable computers (like those by Dell) and will automatically add or remove options to best match what the user wants.

(2) Its comparisons indicate the relative value ("better," "worse," "similar") of components. This level of info is aimed at the average user, who does not necessarily want to learn the details of what differentiates, say, an AMD Athlon XP 2800+ from an Intel Pentium 4 530.

object88
amplify.

Like many others have said, the key lies in asking "what do you want to do"?

I'm guessing that the average user wants web and email, and maybe some combination of a little word processing, digital music and games... and not much else for now. I'm also guessing that the average user does not have a lot of money to throw around. That said, get a cheap (i.e., NOT bleeding edge) Windows machine. Take a little time to learn how to keep it secure (i.e., learn about Windows Updates, good email practices, etc.), and you're good.

Once you start getting into particular hobbies or interests-- video editting, music production, hacking (by which I mean hardcore programming, not cracking), gaming, web design-- you have particular needs.

I know a little about some of those hobbies:

For music production, get yourself a Windows machine-- there's a lot of keen software and hardware, and a lot of it just works. You can end up spending a lot of money... or not much at all.

For hacking, you go with Linux. You can get the source to just about anything, and tinker until the cows come home... maybe even after. There are a million projects to work on, and you'll never run out of things to tweak.