"your chosen programming language is not l33t enough"

serishema
The Last Hacker Chick

Why do people insist on having relgious wars about programming languages? Some of my class mates have told me that various projects of mine sucked because of the language they were written in. Apparently it's cool to hate JAVA, C# Standard ML, F# pretty much anything going that's not C/C++. Has anyone else noticed this trend?

Is this merely tunnel vision or resitance to having to learn and understand many different programming languages or is it simply people being unable to accept the mere existance of an alternative point of view as affects many who get involved in OS religious wars?

alwaysmc2
It's not stupid; It's advanced!

Well, yeah. Some people take it too far.
If you want to write a program in Crayon, go right ahead, just don't preach to me about it.

Manip

It is something between immaturity and lack of experience.

Unfortunately some people never learn that there is the right tool for the right job. Even in the commercial sector you can find companies producing simple GUI applications in VC++ for no apparent reason, and others hacking Java so it will render their complex graph models.

The ignorant will always outnumber the knowledgeable and or experienced... Your job is to ignore them, and prove your position though the work you produce, not the words you use.

If you are forced to work as a team, and have a strong disagreement over the language and or framework to use then I suggest slowing the discussion down and turning it into a "Good / Bad Points" kind of comparison.

But you yourself could be wrong, so try and not be too set on your choice. Instead try and look at the opposing positions independently, that way you will not trap yourself into supporting the looser.

Often, when confronted, you will find that such people won't be able to backup their choice under even the most modest scrutiny. If that is the case then you have won by default... Assuming of course you can justify the choice you have made.

Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me

When I program I dont use any of the common languages. I use a very unknown language called Euphoria. Euphoria is one of those languages that even an "idiot" can learn. Wink

Regards,
Vincent

raymond

Do not waste any time on the programming language religious wars.

Learn the languages you need to earn a living and move on.

I like C#, but I need to know VB.NET, JavaScript, ActionScript and Transact-SQL.

Life is too short for this nonsense.

People dislike and resist change. This is really the case in colleges and universities where Java and C++ dominate. Code in the language you like and have fun! Smiley

AngryChucker
I hate trolls and buffer overflows! Grrrrrr!

I don't understand the whole language wars thing anyway. I think it's a waste of time and energy better spent on coding great solutions.

Just my 2 pence.

Escamillo

F# is the best language going today!
If anyone says different, I not only disagree with what he says, but I don't even defend his right to say it!! Tongue Out

raymond

Escamillo wrote:
F# is the best language going today!
If anyone says different, I not only disagree with what he says, but I don't even defend his right to say it!!

Do not feed the trolls!

ShakesPeer
Code is art

Our team is well versed in multiple .NET languages. We have left a lot of the C/C++ world behind because the tools we use now are quite adequate. So, much of the religious wars have ended. Looking forward to .NET 3.0! Wink

Cheers.
Will

Cornelius Ellsonpeter

Hi Shershema, I just want to say that I know VB, some C#, a little bit of C, a little bit of Fortran, too. I think it is a matter of picking the right tool for the job and people that use C++ for everything are kind of loopy in my book.

By the way, I'm single, I'm a good ~~coa4k~~ cook

Edit: fn cat

rjdohnert
You will never know success until you know failure

Personally. I hated college programming. I personally like .NET and I can tolerate Objective C. I used to swear by Java until it slowly kept getting worse. From .NET I work with C#, VB, C++. Cornelius, are you sure she is a female?

Cornelius Ellsonpeter wrote:
Hi Shershema, I just want to say that I know VB, some C#, a little bit of C, a little bit of Fortran, too. I think it is a matter of picking the right tool for the job and people that use C++ for everything are kind of loopy in my book.

By the way, I'm single, I'm a good ~~coa4k~~ cook

Edit: fn cat

Pon

Yeah, she is lol, I talk to her a lot Tongue Out

I use a mixture of C# and C++/CLI for my ray tracer.

littleguru
<3 Seattle

Sometimes the reason could be that they are comfortable in their language and don't like to learn a new one. They defent than that language with all power they have.

I don't like thos wars too. I mean you can write everything with every language that is turing complete...

serishema
The Last Hacker Chick

Cornelius Ellsonpeter wrote:
Hi Shershema, I just want to say that I know VB, some C#, a little bit of C, a little bit of Fortran, too. I think it is a matter of picking the right tool for the job and people that use C++ for everything are kind of loopy in my book.

By the way, I'm single, I'm a good ~~coa4k~~ cook

Edit: fn cat

Are you hitting on me?

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

serishema wrote:

Cornelius Ellsonpeter wrote:Hi Shershema, I just want to say that I know VB, some C#, a little bit of C, a little bit of Fortran, too. I think it is a matter of picking the right tool for the job and people that use C++ for everything are kind of loopy in my book.

By the way, I'm single, I'm a good ~~coa4k~~ cook

Edit: fn cat

Are you hitting on me?

Wow, for knowing programming you can't take a hint... Tongue Out

BTW?: He tells everyone he's single...the only other person to show any interest was Beer28.

xhtml > VB.NET:s

serishema
The Last Hacker Chick

i was joking

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

serishema wrote:
i was joking

I'm retarded sorry...

Steve411

Technically, it doesn't matter what language you write the application in. Just make sure you optimize your code and write it as neatly as you can to have the best possible execution time.

Hell, JAVA is slow as hell, but if you code it the right way it could work just as well as a .NET app or an native C/C++ app.

These "religious wars" are worthless, and only cause individuals to get their <a$$$> beat.

- Steve

ZippyV
Fired Up

F#?

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

Steve411 wrote:
Hell, JAVA is slow as hell.

"Java" isn't an acronym, and more recent JVMs now JIT-compile the Java bytecode rather than interpret it, just like the CLR.

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

Manip wrote:

Steve411 wrote:Technically, it doesn't matter what language you write the application in. Just make sure you optimize your code and write it as neatly as you can to have the best possible execution time.

I disagree... Technically languages (& platforms) are different and do different tasks well. It doesn't matter how well you optimise if your developing in the wrong language.

If you really believe that ASM == C == C++ == .Net == Java then you clearly haven't tried more than one of them.

Not to mention that "writing neat code" doesn't make it any faster to run. Sure... it may be slightly faster to compile (in what? nanoseconds?) but the amount of inconsistency in your tabbing patterns makes zilch difference.

Manip

Steve411 wrote:
Technically, it doesn't matter what language you write the application in. Just make sure you optimize your code and write it as neatly as you can to have the best possible execution time.

I disagree... Technically languages (& platforms) are different and do different tasks well. It doesn't matter how well you optimise if you're developing in the wrong language.

If you really believe that ASM == C == C++ == .Net == Java then you clearly haven't tried more than one of them.

Steve411

W3bbo wrote:

Manip wrote:

Steve411 wrote: Technically, it doesn't matter what language you write the application in. Just make sure you optimize your code and write it as neatly as you can to have the best possible execution time.

I disagree... Technically languages (& platforms) are different and do different tasks well. It doesn't matter how well you optimise if your developing in the wrong language.

If you really believe that ASM == C == C++ == .Net == Java then you clearly haven't tried more than one of them.

Not to mention that "writing neat code" doesn't make it any faster to run. Sure... it may be slightly faster to compile (in what? nanoseconds?) but the amount of inconsistency in your tabbing patterns makes zilch difference.

If you ever debug your applications you would see how the code is executed. If you were to setup your code correctly you wouldn't have to hit the same spot of code multiple times for no reason whatsoever.

This is what im talking about, the layout of your code, and whether or not it's consistent matters when you debug, and in some cases when you release.

- Steve

draemon

More like "most programmers aren't leet enough"

I'm personally fed up with the myriads of VB "programmers" out there. RAD has brought the industry nothing but a severe quality problem!

Java sucks. It's a teaching language. And most of the java programmers I know, and even most of the production java code I've read sucks. Now, I use Java in my job, and it can be put to good use, but I still hate it with a passion.

In that respect, I suppose it's like perl to me. I *hate* perl. But it serves a purpose, and I use it when I have to. Just because I can put it to good use doesn't make it a good language.

SML, on the other hand is a pretty interesting language - I like it. But it's not exactly useful.

C# Looks quite nice, but it's still managed code, and like Java and VB lets all the muppets who shouldn't be allowed near a PC start programming.

My point, I suppose, is this:

There are good languages and bad languages;
good programmers and bad programmers.
A good programmer can do good things with a bad language - but that doesn't make it good.
A bad language lets a bad programmer do bad things - and "get away with it"

There is a reason why C has stood the test of time.

/rant

John Melville-- MD
Equality Through Technology

My computer science program was very different. The program was designed (intentionally or unintentionally) so that by the end of four years you had written graded assignments in each of about 20 programing languages. Occasionally you would be assigned to solve the same problem in different languages.

The faculty regularly told us that spending more than 4-5 hours to master a new language was beneath the skills of a professional computer scientist, and that we should be prepared to redily accept work in any language customers should choose to employ us in.

I have found this to be true. It takes a few hours to master how each language does the 5-6 things that all languages do and the 2-3 "neat features" the language has. After that its just learning the libraries.

Its also nice to be able to put an end to the "which language is best wars" with "what language would you like me to program in tomorrow?"

&quot;your chosen programming language is not l33t enough&quot;