Nine killed in Israeli air strike | The Coffeehouse

BBC News wrote:

Nine Palestinians, including two children, have been killed and up to 20 others hurt in an Israeli air strike in Gaza, witnesses and doctors say.

Link to story

You remember the other day that I was saying that no conflict is one sided, and that nobody is a good guy... Well I think this just proved my point.

Lot's of 9ers suggested that Israel was some sort of goody goody, and that they had some kind of higher ground in the conflict. Well they don't. They have just proven that they are equally as bad...

Both sides should come under International sanctions until they resolve it.

Shark_M

Manip wrote:

BBC News wrote: Nine Palestinians, including two children, have been killed and up to 20 others hurt in an Israeli air strike in Gaza, witnesses and doctors say.

Link to story

You remember the other day that I was saying that no conflict is one sided, and that nobody is a good guy... Well I think this just proved my point.

Lot's of 9ers suggested that Israel was some sort of goody goody, and that they had some kind of higher ground in the conflict. Well they don't. They have just proven that they are equally as bad...

Both sides should come under International sanctions until they resolve it.

Agreed.

The world MUST confront Israel on its continued acts of terror.

pacelvi

Manip wrote:

BBC News wrote: Nine Palestinians, including two children, have been killed and up to 20 others hurt in an Israeli air strike in Gaza, witnesses and doctors say.

Link to story

You remember the other day that I was saying that no conflict is one sided, and that nobody is a good guy... Well I think this just proved my point.

Lot's of 9ers suggested that Israel was some sort of goody goody, and that they had some kind of higher ground in the conflict. Well they don't. They have just proven that they are equally as bad...

Both sides should come under International sanctions until they resolve it.

So what happened here.. the Israelis woke up one morning and decided to fire military weapons into Gaza? Um no.. they're not Palestians.

This is why the Israelis attacked:

"The Israeli army confirmed the attack, saying it had targeted "a car that was heading to fire rockets at Israel".

The Islamic Jihad militant group said some of its members died in the blast.

Rockets have been fired regularly from Gaza into Israel in recent weeks"

I want to know how categorize attacking someone on thier way to attack you in an enviroment where the enemy has been attacking you for weeks as being the same thing as the enemy who you're trying to stop attacking you.

Antitorgo

Manip wrote:

You remember the other day that I was saying that no conflict is one sided, and that nobody is a good guy... Well I think this just proved my point.

Wait, you must mean this story here? Now, before you go off and say that the IDF is lying, why would they tell the truth on this one and lie on the other?

See, here's the main difference between the Israelis and the terrorists that you don't seem to grasp. The terrorists specifically target innocent people. The Isrealis don't, and if they mistakenly kill some innocents they investigate it. Granted, they may be covering it up, but they seem to have a good case when they mention the lack of a crater from a shell.

See, it is all an issue of the end goals. For Isreal, whenever innocent people are killed, the World watches and it weakens the Isreali cause in the World's eye. When some Hamas zealot blows himself up on a bus off innocent people, their goal is to a) tell Isreal that until they don't exist anymore, this stuff will happen and b) draw attention from the World of their plight (ala "Look, things are soooo bad for us, that our people blow themselves up!"). What is crazy about it, is that it seems to work.

You ever get the feeling that the media overhypes stuff in order to gain audience? People whine about the left/right wing bias in the media; I think it is more an issue of the media "needs" to sensationalize everything to the point that they begin to fabricate things. Ex: Haditha was apparently an unfortunate killing of innocent civilians. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the marines involved are cleared because it is found out that they were following the rules of engagement (terrorists hiding in a house full of civilians). But the media seems to have already convicted them and are ready to see them hang. Then you have the BBC "mixing" up a photo of fishermen blindfolded, bound, shot and left in a stadium in Haditha with the victims of the marines. Oops, turns out those people were killed by the terrorists...

So, in the end, you just need to come up with a convincing, juicy story and the media will jump all over it.

Harlequin

Maybe Palestine needs a third party to do the policing there. I'd have no qualms with 50,000 U.N. troops made up of Chinese or Russians or the like.

Manip

Harlequin wrote:

Maybe Palestine needs a third party to do the policing there. I'd have no qualms with 50,000 U.N. troops made up of Chinese or Russians or the like.

Why not Canadians?

ScanIAm

I don't remember anyone saying that Israel was goody-goody in that thread, but I got tired of the "death to the infidel" BS, so I quit reading it.

Hamas said, after the beach shelling, that they would begin sending rockets. (Actually, more rockets, since they were already doing so). So of course Israel is going to respond. It seems that the entire region is filled with people who only know how to attack each other.

Too bad they don't have internet forums....they could argue all day, accomplish nothing, and nobody would get hurt.

Harlequin

Manip wrote:

Harlequin wrote: Maybe Palestine needs a third party to do the policing there. I'd have no qualms with 50,000 U.N. troops made up of Chinese or Russians or the like.

Why not Canadians?

I don't think we have the resources to police Palestine. We're already policing Cypress(keep the Greeks/Turks from killing each other, and doing a good job of it), Bosnia I believe, Afghanistan(also taking over operations there soon), Haiti, and God knows where else. Everyone would prefer us, just can't afford it.

Antitorgo

Harlequin wrote:

Maybe Palestine needs a third party to do the policing there. I'd have no qualms with 50,000 U.N. troops made up of Chinese or Russians or the like.

Oh yeah, I'm sure that the Palestinians and Isrealis would love that. Heck, they'd might just ban together just to get rid of the "oppressors".

Doesn't anyone remember the issues of oh... I dunno, an estimated 50-60 million people dead by the hands of Stalin and Mao? I wonder how many people realize that Stalin and Mao both individually were waaaay worse than Hitler was.

Anyway, how do you peacefully bring two sides together that both call for the total annihilition of the other? And it doesn't help that you have guys like Mahmood Ahmadinejad, the President of Iran calling for the elimination of Isreal while saying that he should be able to make nuclear weapons. How many folks here realize that he was the ringleader in the 1979 US Embassy takeover in Iran?

As far as the Canadians go... Well, I think that they'd be seen as "westerners" and thus unable to be impartial no matter what they did.

Harlequin

Antitorgo wrote:

As far as the Canadians go... Well, I think that they'd be seen as "westerners" and thus unable to be impartial no matter what they did.

I doubt that. Many countries around the world ask for us by name to help in policing/military actions. Many wanted our RCMP to train Iraq police.

Antitorgo

Harlequin wrote:

Antitorgo wrote: As far as the Canadians go... Well, I think that they'd be seen as "westerners" and thus unable to be impartial no matter what they did.

I doubt that. Many countries around the world ask for us by name to help in policing/military actions. Many wanted our RCMP to train Iraq police.

Ah yes, those Muslim extremists (terrorists) love Canada.

pacelvi

Antitorgo wrote:

Harlequin wrote:

Antitorgo wrote: As far as the Canadians go... Well, I think that they'd be seen as "westerners" and thus unable to be impartial no matter what they did.

I doubt that. Many countries around the world ask for us by name to help in policing/military actions. Many wanted our RCMP to train Iraq police.

Ah yes, those Muslim extremists (terrorists) love Canada.

Canadians really need to ask themselves why it is that they're hated.

[satire]

pacelvi

This is an interesting fact that not many people are aware of:

Did you know that the municipal boundaries of the City of Chicago in Illinois in the United States are larger than that of the Gaza Strip?

Keep this in mind when you hear about attacks in Gaza. What is being talked about is a total area that is less than an American city.

So when missiles go off-course and hit a family at a bunch I would think it's because the area being dealt with is so tiny that anything going off-course is going to hit someone.

Chicago: 234 square miles / 606 square km

Gaza Strip: 138 square miles / 360 square km

So keep this in mind when you hear about "Gaza City", refugee camps, settlements, buffer zones, access roads..

Frankly I have a hard time believing the place is really that small.

I was in Israel in 1998 but didnt' go there to Gaza.

Harlequin

pacelvi wrote:

So when missiles go off-course and hit a family at a bunch I would think it's because the area being dealt with is so tiny that anything going off-course is going to hit someone.

Big reason why I don't like airstrikes. If you know someone is there, send in SEALS or their equivalent. Pick the bad guys off one by one. This way the daycare next door doesn't get flattened.

pacelvi

Harlequin wrote:

pacelvi wrote: So when missiles go off-course and hit a family at a bunch I would think it's because the area being dealt with is so tiny that anything going off-course is going to hit someone.

Big reason why I don't like airstrikes. If you know someone is there, send in SEALS or their equivalent. Pick the bad guys off one by one. This way the daycare next door doesn't get flattened.

So what does this say about the Palestians who are launching rockets into Israel proper from Gaza. They have to know they will reap retaliation. Perhaps the retaliation is what they're after since the rockets they fire into Israel aren't really achieving anythiing.

The Palestinians play people like Shark for fools.. they know they can count on what Stalin called his "useful idiots" in the west.

Shmuelpro

Harlequin wrote:

pacelvi wrote: So when missiles go off-course and hit a family at a bunch I would think it's because the area being dealt with is so tiny that anything going off-course is going to hit someone.

Big reason why I don't like airstrikes. If you know someone is there, send in SEALS or their equivalent. Pick the bad guys off one by one. This way the daycare next door doesn't get flattened.

We do that too much and too many soldiers die.

First of all it is extreamlly unfair that anyone judges the situation when they are millions of miles away with no lurking fear of sucide attacks.

Let me tell you a little story.
A kid in my class who stayed in a room next to mine in our dorm (boarding school) went to check out another school. At that school (also a boarding school) he and two other kids go to play some evening basketball. during thier game a terrorist breaks into the school and guns them down.

Now whats funny is this is not the only occurence and whats even funnier is that this is reletively humane compared to other times where peoples body parts where flying everywhere and there was an odor of cooked meat in the air.

Cornelius Ellsonpeter

I just can't understand how anybody can defend people that strap belts of nails and screws on themselves and deliberately go around trying to take out as many innocent people as they can by exploding themselves (or try to leave permanent scars on those left behind).

W3bbo

Cornelius Ellsonpeter wrote:

I just can't understand how anybody can defend people that strap belts of nails and screws on themselves and deliberately go around trying to take out as many innocent people as they can by exploding themselves (or try to leave permanent scars on those left behind).

How about finding out the causes of why people decide to do this (besides "It's on the Koran, duh!", there are billions of other Muslims who don't do this)

Antitorgo

W3bbo wrote:

How about finding out the causes of why people decide to do this (besides "It's on the Koran, duh!", there are billions of other Muslims who don't do this)

Oh come on... you know how niave that is. The reason why is because they are kooks. To me, it would seem that it comes down to two reasons: a) power and b) religious zealotry. Why are their billions of other Muslims who don't do this? Because they aren't crazy power-hungry freaks who twist their religion to further their ends is why...

W3bbo

Antitorgo wrote:

W3bbo wrote:
How about finding out the causes of why people decide to do this (besides "It's on the Koran, duh!", there are billions of other Muslims who don't do this)

Oh come on... you know how niave that is. The reason why is because they are kooks. To me, it would seem that it comes down to two reasons: a) power and b) religious zealotry. Why are their billions of other Muslims who don't do this? Because they aren't crazy power-hungry freaks who twist their religion to further their ends is why...

Ah yes, but why are they kooks and zealots (as you so eloquently put it)?

Shmuelpro

W3bbo wrote:

Cornelius Ellsonpeter wrote: I just can't understand how anybody can defend people that strap belts of nails and screws on themselves and deliberately go around trying to take out as many innocent people as they can by exploding themselves (or try to leave permanent scars on those left behind).

How about finding out the causes of why people decide to do this (besides "It's on the Koran, duh!", there are billions of other Muslims who don't do this)

No, it has nothing to do with the koran. it has to do with internal brainwashing; the governmant (Arfat era) took the BILLIONS ($4 billion that the UN, EU and US gave the PO is unacounted for) of dollars not giving anything for the development of the country and accusing Israel for the terrible situation they are living in telling them that if they want to be happy they must get rid of the jews by blowing the sh!t out of us.
so they created groups that prefected this ability ( creating bombs and blowing up jews) and now they cant control them.

think of this other aspect, as kids in thier text books they have math questions such as " if you kill two israelis today and five tomorrow how many have you killed?" and later when they become teenagers they want to have - you know- unfortunatly for them they cant.

So now lets look what happenes.
1. they are taught from a young age that killing israelis is good.
2. if they commit suicide they will go to heaven where they will get
72 virgins.
3. their familys will get a lot of money in compensations which will get them out of the sh!t hole thier family is currently in.

So why do you think they kill themselves?

Cornelius Ellsonpeter

Shmuelpro wrote:

think of this other aspect, as kids in thier text books they have math questions such as " if you kill two israelis today and five tomorrow how many have you killed?" and later when they become teenagers they want to have - you know- unfortunatly for them they cant.

I heard about this a ways back (from a few places) and that is something that they never talk about on the news over here. They rarely explain where all the hate comes from. Sometimes I'll listen to talk shows or watch documentaries, and when the host tries to ask some of the Palestinians how they feel about Israel, they usually reply back "we must eliminate them!" without ever explaining why they feel that way. I hear this time and time again, and it is rarely backed up by any facts or details...it's mostly emotion, and with living conditions the way they are over there, it makes it even worse. It's pretty obvious it is a type of conditioning, and it starts at a very young age.