Gaza beach attack was really Palestinian bomb | The Coffeehouse

pacelvi
Phear

Well well, so much for the Israelis are Terrorists fraud..

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- The explosion on a Gaza beach that killed seven people last Friday was caused by explosives planted there by Palestinian militants, not artillery fire from an Israeli navy gunboat, Israeli military sources said Tuesday.

However, in Gaza, the group Human Rights Watch said the evidence it has been able to gather suggests that a 155 mm artillery shell, like the type used by the Israeli military, was responsible.

The IDF report cites several factors that led to the conclusion that the explosion was caused by a mine planted on the beach by Palestinian militants, the sources said.

An Israeli commando unit used the beach to enter Gaza for a mission in recent weeks, prompting the militants to place the mines, the sources said.

Intelligence information gathered by Israeli investigators showed that Hamas quickly removed the remaining mines from the beach after the blast, the sources said.

Investigators were able to locate where five of the six shells fired from the gunboat Friday landed and none of them were near the beach, the sources said. The sixth shell -- the first to be fired -- could not have killed the family because it was fired further north and too early, the sources said.

Adding to the conclusion that it was not an Israeli shell that killed the family was an examination of photographs of the crater on the beach. The sources said experts found it was the type of crater caused by a planted explosive, not by an artillery shell landing from above.

Finally, shrapnel removed from three of the injured by doctors at Israeli hospitals was not from an artillery shell, the sources said.

But Human Rights Watch said its investigation of the incident came up with opposite conclusions in almost every case.

The group said most of the injuries to the dead were to the head and torso. A Human Rights Watch spokesman said that would be consistent with an incoming shell, not a bomb buried in the ground.

Human Rights Watch also said the crater was consistent with a 155 mm artillery shell.

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

True. That is if you TOTALLY ignore these lines in the articles:

article wrote:
However, in Gaza, the group Human Rights Watch said the evidence it has been able to gather suggests that a 155 mm artillery shell, like the type used by the Israeli military, was responsible.

...

But Human Rights Watch said its investigation of the incident came up with opposite conclusions in almost every case.

The group said most of the injuries to the dead were to the head and torso. A Human Rights Watch spokesman said that would be consistent with an incoming shell, not a bomb buried in the ground.

Human Rights Watch also said the crater was consistent with a 155 mm artillery shell.

Selective reading?

pacelvi
Phear

Minh wrote:
True. That is if you TOTALLY ignore these lines in the articles:

article wrote: However, in Gaza, the group Human Rights Watch said the evidence it has been able to gather suggests that a 155 mm artillery shell, like the type used by the Israeli military, was responsible.

...

But Human Rights Watch said its investigation of the incident came up with opposite conclusions in almost every case.

The group said most of the injuries to the dead were to the head and torso. A Human Rights Watch spokesman said that would be consistent with an incoming shell, not a bomb buried in the ground.

Human Rights Watch also said the crater was consistent with a 155 mm artillery shell.

Selective reading?

I didn't ignore them. I dismissed them. Who is this group and what gives them any authority.

You know, the leftist media always puts some lefty NGO into every story.. doesn't mean they have credibitly.

Cornelius Ellsonpeter

Was anybody here on the beach at the time?

No? So who says anybody here really knows what happened? Every fn newspaper out there has a bias, as well as most reporters. Things aren't as objective as you are led to believe in the media. They often leave out certain facts to prop up their positions.

On a side note...

What's happening to my Channel 9?!!? AUGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

pacelvi wrote:

I didn't ignore them. I dismissed them. Who is this group and what gives them any authority.

You know, the leftist media always puts some lefty NGO into every story.. doesn't mean they have credibitly.

Of course I don't know either, but do you find this line troubling?

"...not artillery fire from an Israeli navy gunboat, Israeli military sources said Tuesday."

The Israeli military clearing itself. OK. That's much more reliable, right?

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

Cornelius Ellsonpeter wrote:

What's happening to my Channel 9?!!? AUGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

We need a break from religious & political debates for 1 DAY. C'mon mods. Little help here.

pacelvi
Phear

Minh wrote:

pacelvi wrote:
I didn't ignore them. I dismissed them. Who is this group and what gives them any authority.

You know, the leftist media always puts some lefty NGO into every story.. doesn't mean they have credibitly.

Of course I don't know either, but do you find this line troubling?

"...not artillery fire from an Israeli navy gunboat, Israeli military sources said Tuesday."

The Israeli military clearing itself. OK. That's much more reliable, right?

Geez, trying using your super-human cyncism on the right question.

"Palestinians blame explosion deaths on IDF"

- The Palestinians blaming the IDF for deaths? Unhead of , right?

Manip

This religious nut-job pacelvi is far worse than beer28 ... Because he doesn't see how biased he actually is, at least beer was aware of what he was doing and why.

pacelvi, yes we know... Christian + Jewish = Good, Everyone else = bad... Right?

Yggdrasil
Pour me a cab, 'cause I can't drink no more.

pacelvi wrote:
Geez, trying using your super-human cyncism on the right question.

"Palestinians blame explosion deaths on IDF"

- The Palestinians blaming the IDF for deaths? Unhead of , right?

I'm with Minh here, actually. I would prefer an investigation of this be performed by some non-military committee appointed by the government. Too many pressures inside the army.

I'll also add that it's hard to trust a report that is so blatantly contradicted by every other account of the events. I can understand it if there are small inconsistencies or dispute over details, but when one report says "There's no chance it was an artillery shell, and the impact crater was indicative of a land-mine" and another says "The fragments were from an artillery shell, and the impact crater is NOT indicative of a landmine" - you gotta wonder.

The outside observer's objectivity is questionable. The military's is non-existent.

Antitorgo

Manip wrote:
This religious nut-job pacelvi is far worse than beer28 ... Because he doesn't see how biased he actually is, at least beer was aware of what he was doing and why.

pacelvi, yes we know... Christian + Jewish = Good, Everyone else = bad... Right?

Oh come on Manip, you are the one who was starting the anti-Zionist threads and saying that the Isrealis were targetting these people out on the beach...

I'm guessing that the 6th shell they couldn't find went off course (even though they claim it was fired further North and was too early).

Artillary is a weird thing... Saw a show the other day on some of the new American artillary pieces coming out, it is fully automated loading and firing and can land several (I think it was up to 6) projectiles in same spot at the same time by altering trajectory... crazy stuff.

maniac78

Palestinian terrorists deliberately target innocent civilians in every single attack. They share broad support in Palestinian population for these actions. In fact Hamas, a Palestinian terrorist group was elected as the government of the Palestinian Authority.

Israel on the other hand does it's utmost to protect all human life, complies with the rule of law and is a pluralistic secular state with an exemplary human rights record. Israelis are desperate for peace and have offered it many many times with the only caveat that terrorism against them must stop. The Palestinians have responded with more terrorism every time peace has been offered.

Antitorgo

Actually, it is weird, I went and looked at some of the recent articles and even went to the Human Rights Watch site and read their press release. Something doesn't jive here:

- The IDF said their navy fired 6 - 76mm shells to the North of the beach and have found 5 of the 6 shells. They claim the 6th was the first one fired and it couldn't have been the cause, since it was fired much earlier (8 mins before the beach incident).

- The Human Rights Watch expert (an ex Pentagon DOD guy) says the injuries are consistent with artillery (head, upper torso wounds) vs a land-mine (leg wounds). He also says that fragments were found near the scene, one of which bears the markings of "55mm" which would indicate a 155mm shell (fired by land-based artillery).

- The media articles seem to have cherry picked the Human Rights Watch press release in which they don't rule out it being a land-mine and also condemn the Palestinian rocket attacks.

Here's the thing, and why I disbelieve the Human Rights Watch guy. The fact that he found a 155mm shell fragment nearby and trying to claim that as proof is fakery of the highest order. The media slurps it up because it has to be "smoking gun" evidence right? No, a) it is the wrong type 155mm vs 76mm b) Shell fragments can be found on the beach from earlier artillery as seen here.

I think the fragments retrieved from the bodies might be able to prove one side or the other, but who knows if that'll ever be released...

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

From another thread:

W3bbo wrote:

pacelvi wrote:Too bad it turns out the deaths here were due to a Palestinian mine.

Too bad this wont matter.

ORLY?

nesreen

The explosion on a Gaza beach that killed seven people last Friday was caused by explosives planted there by Palestinian militants,

You would expect the injured and dead on the beach to have had their feet blown up , right ?instead of of having head, arms and chest injuries ? Israelis doing what they do best , lie !

remember Captain "R" after he emptied his gun on the 9 years old Pales girl , he was found NOT guilty , promoted and even paid a handsome amount of money .

Benzi Sau , was involved in the death of 13 innocent palestinians before , what happened to him ? nothing , he got a promotion. et..etc.. (sharon became PM after being found indireclty responsible for sabra and shattila at the kahane commission )

So now we have Mr Garlasco , lucy Mair , and channel10 in israel as liers but the IDF investigating itself as credible . yeah right !!

check this article out , it is interesting .

QUOTE: The Monday television report Channel10 said that a previously unreported shrapnel fragment recovered from one of those wounded in the incident, was from the type of shell Israeli artillery had been firing prior to the explosion

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/728817.html

manickernel
anticipate consequences..

The reason most land mines hit the legs is because people are walking. Most beaches I have been to people are sitting or lying on the sand. So thier heads and torsos are at leg level. Also, most IED's are made from artillery shells.

Just an observation.

Shark_M

Again, Some people never learn. Do you expect me to beleive the "Murderer" to give an accurate account of the story?

Be open-Minded For a change

Shark_M

manickernel wrote:
The reason most land mines hit the legs is because people are walking. Most beaches I have been to people are sitting or lying on the sand. So thier heads and torsos are at leg level. Also, most IED's are made from artillery shells.

Just an observation.

WHY on earth do you expect palestianians to put land mines in THEIR beaches and not Israeli Beaches?

Shark_M

maniac78 wrote:
Palestinian terrorists deliberately target innocent civilians in every single attack. They share broad support in Palestinian population for these actions. In fact Hamas, a Palestinian terrorist group was elected as the government of the Palestinian Authority.

Israel on the other hand does it's utmost to protect all human life, complies with the rule of law and is a pluralistic secular state with an exemplary human rights record. Israelis are desperate for peace and have offered it many many times with the only caveat that terrorism against them must stop. The Palestinians have responded with more terrorism every time peace has been offered.

The State of Israel was formed by the use of Terrorism. Infact many terrorised the British Armed Forces in order to establish a State for the Jews.

Now one have got to ask. Is this not so different than what Abu-Musab Al-Zarqawi wanted to create? An Islamic-Khaleifate for All? So one can compare him with Theodor Herzl , both had similar ideology, although one is more of a show for public Barbarism than the other.

Once Israel used Terror to come to the international arena as a Jewish state, it created a national army, much like the Shura For The Iraqi Resistance in Iraq now. In many ways Israel can be compared to the Taliban. Both are founded on religous Ideas and both are equally Terroristic in their actions. Offcourse if the Taliban was more friendly to the US they probably be in power till this day.

So one nations hero, is another's nation Terrorist. It is certainly true for The State Of Israel.

Yggdrasil
Pour me a cab, 'cause I can't drink no more.

Shark_M wrote:
In many ways Israel can be compared to the Taliban. Both are founded on religous Ideas and both are equally Terroristic in their actions.

Oh, are we doing this again? You ignored my points from the last time:

1) Herzl, along with most of the people who founded the state of Israel, were secular at best, atheistic at worst. They were motivated from nationalistic, not religious, interests. Please acknowledge that you have, in fact read this - you've ignored it in the previous posts.

2) The Jewish resistance movements that attacked the British in the 40's did, indeed, perform several acts of terror. The bombing of the King David hotel in Jerusalem is a good example, though you can't ignore the fact that a warning WAS given to the police to evacuate the inhabitants. Saying that this is "equally terroristic" to the Taliban shows quite a bit of hyperbole. Do you really believe there is no difference? Do you not make any distinctions between "Bad" and "Worse"?

Shark_M wrote:

So one nations hero, is another's nation Terrorist. It is certainly true for The State Of Israel.

That's true everywhere.

maniac78

Shark_M wrote:

The State of Israel was formed by the use of Terrorism. Infact many terrorised the British Armed Forces in order to establish a State for the Jews.

No it was not. The British and the UN agreed that the jews in Palestine should have the right to self determination. Israel was then formed. It was a small area of land, split up into several pieces and surrounded by Palestine. The Palestininians were offered statehood and rejected it. The Palestinians and surrounding arab countries immediately attacked Israel and as is their usual tactic, deliberately targeted civilians.

Yes there was a small group of Israeli terrorists who blew up a British hotel but that is not at all how Israel was formed. Once the state of Israel was formed this group was forcebly disarmed. This is something the Palestinian authority refuses to do.

Shark_M wrote:

Now one have got to ask. Is this not so different than what Abu-Musab Al-Zarqawi wanted to create? An Islamic-Khaleifate for All? So one can compare him with Theodor Herzl , both had similar ideology, although one is more of a show for public Barbarism than the other.

Yes it's completely different. The jews were granted their right to self determination in the areas of Palestine in which they were a majority. The Arab Palestinians in Palestine were given the same right and instead chose to kill.

Shark_M wrote:

Once Israel used Terror to come to the international arena as a Jewish state, it created a national army, much like the Shura For The Iraqi Resistance in Iraq now. In many ways Israel can be compared to the Taliban. Both are founded on religous Ideas and both are equally Terroristic in their actions. Offcourse if the Taliban was more friendly to the US they probably be in power till this day.

You are completely sick. Israel does not and never has used terror. It has defended itself against terrorists who seek to kill as many civilians as possible. Israel seeks to save as many human lives as possible.

I think you should read some of the history about this conflict. If you do you'll realise how wrong you are to believe that the palestinian terrorists are the victim here when in fact they are nothing but cold blooded murderers.