Posted By: Michael Griffiths | Jun 14th, 2006 @ 7:02 PM
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Comments: 9 | Views: 9643
Michael Griffiths
Michael Griffiths
Fatalism.
I've been using the beta version of Office 2007 or the past week or so.

Generally it's very nice. Usability is dramatically improved, commands are more intuitive, and it's pleasent using the programs.

I have, however, have the misfortune of using Excel 2007 - with the new file formats - on a *big* spreadsheet for the last few hours. It's only 8 MB in 2007 (nice size recuction - was a 32 MB xls file), but Excel 2007 can't handle it.

Let me explain what this spreadsheet is. It's a model built by a a guy with no programming experience. It still manages to be completely dynamic: change the source data, and the output changes. I need to get some data off the spreadsheet; make a few PivotTables. Basic stuff.

You get things like 20 columns that all VLOOKUP and calculate some data. VLOOKUPing the concatanated result of two VLOOKUPs, which in turn are VLOOKUPs, whose result is dependent on a cell that manages to be just short of a circular reference. 4,000 (whichis a drop in the pail, really) results, 8 lookup tables, loads of PivotTables.

It takes, when working, around 5 minutes to calculate or save on a 3 GHz machine with 2 GB RAM.

Office 2003 can handle this just fine. It's a pain to save, but it's rock-solid. It's fast, works well, and nothing screws up.

NOT SO in Office 2007.

It can take up to 4 minutes simply to remove a bloody filter on a Table. It's taken over 10 minutes to Calculate. Spent 2 minutes deleting 3 columns from a worksheet.

And it CRASHES. Oh, boy, does it crash.

Want to save? Oh, look, I spent 3 minutes fooling you with the status bar before crashing! But don't worry sir! I can revocer it for you! Do you want to send a report to Microsoft? Yes? Good! Let me spend 8 minutes preparing the report. Whoops, you're not on dialup are you? It's going to take 237 minutes to transfer the report on dialup. You're not? Good! Can I send a chunk of your file along with it, too? Yay! And hey, I've recovered the document. Do you want me to spend another 6 minutes OPENING it after I've so kindly REPAIRED it for you?

On, and on, and on.

Not to mention the fiddling little problems like throwing "cannot access PivotTable data" messages at you. That, yes, apply when you try to make a new PivotTable to replace the one that isn't working.

Not. Good.

On a sour note, it's probably the XML nature of the new file formats. If they is after Microsoft has spent so much time optimizing XML compared to OpenDocument, I'd shudder to use ODF in a similar senario.

I hope the release version doesn't crash as god-damned much on everything but the piddly little everyday files as it does now. Right now, Excel 2003 is leaps and bounds better in terms of stability - and sorry, the new features (like conditional formatting) don't make up for it. If I do no work for 3 hours trying to get a document stable enough to work on (before downgrading), I don't care how many new features there are. 3 hours output in a subpar system is leaps and bounds better than 0 hours output in a new, shiny system.
Michael Griffiths wrote:
I've been using the beta version of Office 2007 or the past week or so.

Generally it's very nice. Usability is dramatically improved, commands are more intuitive, and it's pleasent using the programs.

I have, however, have the misfortune of using Excel 2007 - with the new file formats - on a *big* spreadsheet for the last few hours. It's only 8 MB in 2007 (nice size recuction - was a 32 MB xls file), but Excel 2007 can't handle it.

Let me explain what this spreadsheet is. It's a model built by a a guy with no programming experience. It still manages to be completely dynamic: change the source data, and the output changes. I need to get some data off the spreadsheet; make a few PivotTables. Basic stuff.

You get things like 20 columns that all VLOOKUP and calculate some data. VLOOKUPing the concatanated result of two VLOOKUPs, which in turn are VLOOKUPs, whose result is dependent on a cell that manages to be just short of a circular reference. 4,000 (whichis a drop in the pail, really) results, 8 lookup tables, loads of PivotTables.

It takes, when working, around 5 minutes to calculate or save on a 3 GHz machine with 2 GB RAM.

Office 2003 can handle this just fine. It's a pain to save, but it's rock-solid. It's fast, works well, and nothing screws up.

NOT SO in Office 2007.

It can take up to 4 minutes simply to remove a bloody filter on a Table. It's taken over 10 minutes to Calculate. Spent 2 minutes deleting 3 columns from a worksheet.

And it CRASHES. Oh, boy, does it crash.

Want to save? Oh, look, I spent 3 minutes fooling you with the status bar before crashing! But don't worry sir! I can revocer it for you! Do you want to send a report to Microsoft? Yes? Good! Let me spend 8 minutes preparing the report. Whoops, you're not on dialup are you? It's going to take 237 minutes to transfer the report on dialup. You're not? Good! Can I send a chunk of your file along with it, too? Yay! And hey, I've recovered the document. Do you want me to spend another 6 minutes OPENING it after I've so kindly REPAIRED it for you?

On, and on, and on.

Not to mention the fiddling little problems like throwing "cannot access PivotTable data" messages at you. That, yes, apply when you try to make a new PivotTable to replace the one that isn't working.

Not. Good.

On a sour note, it's probably the XML nature of the new file formats. If they is after Microsoft has spent so much time optimizing XML compared to OpenDocument, I'd shudder to use ODF in a similar senario.

I hope the release version doesn't crash as god-damned much on everything but the piddly little everyday files as it does now. Right now, Excel 2003 is leaps and bounds better in terms of stability - and sorry, the new features (like conditional formatting) don't make up for it. If I do no work for 3 hours trying to get a document stable enough to work on (before downgrading), I don't care how many new features there are. 3 hours output in a subpar system is leaps and bounds better than 0 hours output in a new, shiny system.

Maybe your machine is not ready (from hardware side) to perform with Office 12 or Vista. But I generally agree its slow
This may be the time to put in a reminder Office 2007 is currently beta, and performance work tends to come late in the cycle. While I can't imagine there not being some impact from moving from binary to XML, they're working hard to keep it reasonable (see here and here). Brian Jones' blog is great resource to learn about the evolution of the new formats if you're interested, BTW.
Tom Servo
Tom Servo
W-hat?
Michael Griffiths wrote:
It's probably a file-format issue.

I doubt that, since the file format is only involved during loads and saves. Internal representation is completely different. I'd guess it's related to the sheet calculation engine, which underwent some big changes to make it multithread.
OneNote 2007 is looking for Desktop search and its not installing on Longhorn Server Beta 2.......any ideans???Sad
Yggdrasil
Yggdrasil
Pour me a cab, 'cause I can't drink no more.

There are several Excel 2007 bloggers out there that would probably appreciate hearing about the problem. If the data on the spreadsheet can be shared with them, sending them a copy would probably do wonders to ensure this works better in the final product - I know some of them have asked the public to send them problematic documents to make sure they work well.

mot256
mot256
Beyond ASM... OOP
Michael Griffiths wrote:

...
Right now, Excel 2003 is leaps and bounds better in terms of stability - and sorry, the new features (like conditional formatting) don't make up for it.
...


I do not have Office12 (2007), but one thing I know: "conditional formatting" is not new to Office12... from the demos that I've seen on Office12 it's just easier to find...
mot256 wrote:

I do not have Office12 (2007), but one thing I know: "conditional formatting" is not new to Office12... from the demos that I've seen on Office12 it's just easier to find...


While "conditional formatting" isn't a new feature, there are several new types of conditional formatting such as Data Bars, Icon Sets, etc.   

SimonJ
littleguru
littleguru
<3 Seattle
You should rename this to Excel 2007: Slow.

Word is very fast. I have no problems at all... Btw. you can always use the old file formats - They still work with Office 2007
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