Palestinians provoke yet another reoccupation | The Coffeehouse

pacelvi
Phear

I have to say, for a bunch of people who claim to want thier own little country[0] they sure do have a problem restraining themselves from provoking their reoccupation.

[0] - yes, they do want their own little country.. plus another existing one.

Shark_M

pacelvi wrote:
I have to say, for a bunch of people who claim to want thier own little country[0] they sure do have a problem restraining themselves from provoking their reoccupation.

[0] - yes, they do want their own little country.. plus another existing one.

Yeah, right, they killed a family enjoying a good time in the beach, so they can provoke israel to reoccupy their land.

um...aha. yeah.

Did you foget your brain under the pillow?

pacelvi
Phear

Shark_M wrote:

pacelvi wrote: I have to say, for a bunch of people who claim to want thier own little country[0] they sure do have a problem restraining themselves from provoking their reoccupation.

[0] - yes, they do want their own little country.. plus another existing one.

Yeah, right, they killed a family enjoying a good time in the beach, so they can provoke israel to reoccupy their land.

um...aha. yeah.

Did you foget your brain under the pillow?

You mean this (so now even the lefty NGO comes to terms with the facts.. where are yours. The NGO concedes that they weren't attacked with live fire, but something in the ground.. so I doubt Israel just willy nilly planted mines on the beach waiting for the Gazans to attack them (Israel) so that someone can step on it on the day they (Israel) retaliate):

On Monday, the Human Rights Watch, while sticking to its demand for the establishment of an independent inquiry into a blast on a Gaza beach 10 days ago that killed seven Palestinian civilians, conceded for the first time since the incident that it could not contradict the IDF's exonerating findings.

On Monday, Maj.-Gen. Meir Klifi - head of the IDF inquiry commission that cleared the IDF of responsibility for the blast - met with Marc Garlasco, a military expert from the HRW who had last week claimed that the blast was caused by an IDF artillery shell. Following the three-hour meeting, described by both sides as cordial and pleasant, Garlasco praised the IDF's professional investigation into the blast, which he said was most likely caused by unexploded Israeli ordnance left laying on the beach, a possibility also raised by Klifi and his team.

"We came to an agreement with General Klifi that the most likely cause [of the blast] was unexploded Israeli ordinance," Garlasco told The Jerusalem Post following the meeting. While Klifi's team did a "competent job" to rule out the possibility that the blast was caused by artillery fire, there were still, Garlasco said, a number of pieces of evidence that the IDF commission did not take into consideration.

Manip

I've given up talking to pacelvi, the guy is SO anti-Muslim it isn't even worth while.

pacelvi
Phear

Manip wrote:
I've given up talking to pacelvi, the guy is SO anti-Muslim it isn't even worth while.

That's funny, I didn't mention anyone's religion in this thread.

Jason Cox
Longtime C9 Lurker

It's funny how the UN intervenes when Iraq occupied Kuwait but we wont drive the Israelis out of Palestine every other week when they roll tanks and gunships in because a Palestinian took out a few civilians after an Israeli missile missed it's target and took out a few Palestinian civilians..

Manip

pacelvi wrote:

Manip wrote: I've given up talking to pacelvi, the guy is SO anti-Muslim it isn't even worth while.

That's funny, I didn't mention anyone's religion in this thread.

But you are though, right?

W3bbo
The Master of Baiters

Manip wrote:
I've given up talking to pacelvi, the guy is SO anti-Muslim it isn't even worth while.

He's a war-mongering Republican stereotype

I wonder if he realises Landover is spoof.

borosen

pacelvi wrote:
I have to say, for a bunch of people who claim to want thier own little country[0] they sure do have a problem restraining themselves from provoking their reoccupation.

[0] - yes, they do want their own little country.. plus another existing one.

REoccupation!!??

So you finally acknowledge that the israeli has occupied palestinian territory, and that the palestinians are fighting for their freedom?

julianbenjamin
Giggity

borosen wrote:

REoccupation!!??

So you finally acknowledge that the israeli has occupied palestinian territory, and that the palestinians are fighting for their freedom?

This is not about freedom anymore. Freedom from what? They already have their own country; they just want more. This is similar to the India-Pakistan fighting over Kashmir. It's not about freedom.

Besides, everyone was ready to talk, except for the militants in Palestine, who still threatened to blow things up; heck, they had a curfew for a month, and they said that after the month is up, they'll go back to shooting missiles. People like that deserve everything they get and more. There's no excuse for the BS that's going on there. If they want to hide among civilians, then civilians will get hurt. It's that simple. You don't want your people to get hurt, go somewhere else and wage a war. But hiding behind civilians is cowardice.

Israel is justified in protecting it's people any way it can. Any actions against Palestine have always been a result of something palestinian militants did against Israel (suicide bombings, missiles, etc). Anyone heard of any Israeli suicide bombers in Palestine? Any random missiles shooting into Palestine other than those targeted at militants? Palestine is just playing on the sympathy of the world, and feels justified in their extremist actions.

And yes, this war is about religion, and who controls the Holy Land. Anyone who believe otherwise is a fool.

pacelvi
Phear

borosen wrote:

pacelvi wrote: I have to say, for a bunch of people who claim to want thier own little country[0] they sure do have a problem restraining themselves from provoking their reoccupation.

[0] - yes, they do want their own little country.. plus another existing one.

REoccupation!!??

So you finally acknowledge that the israeli has occupied palestinian territory, and that the palestinians are fighting for their freedom?

I never denied there was an occupation, so I dont have to "finally" acknoweldge it, it was never an area in dispute with me.

Just what the entity is that is/was occupied is perhaps debatable. It's probably the only spot on earth with undefined soverignity.

There was never a state of palestine, Egypt gave up it's claim to Gaza and Jordan gave up it's claim to the West Bank. (I believe in the time frame of the late 70s for Egypt and the late 80s for Jordan.. which meant until those declarations, those nations didnt' consider the Gaza Strip or West Bank to be soverign palestinian land either and still don't, as the territorites are undefined pending a negiotated settlement)

Along came the Oslo Accords in the 90s, that started a almost decade process of redeployment of the IDF occupation forces and the assumption of civil control to the PA.

Arafat/Fateh squandered the entire decade because of instead of building up the structures for a state and civil society they decided to spend the time indoctrinating the youth to be shaddids and the result was the Oslo War starting in 2000 and the reversal of whatever gains there were.

Israel, knowing that demography is against them, left Gaza. kicked out the Jews (racial cleansing is only ok when it's Jews who have to leave (sarcasm)).

Israel was not in Gaza since the unilateral withdrawel of forces. There was nothing for the folks in Gaza to fight Israel against. Yet there they go, as they have done since 1948, launching missile attacks into Israel proper.

But i'm talking to myself because in the magical world of the Israel-PA conflict cause and effect and rationality dont apply.

matt0210

Manip wrote:
I've given up talking to pacelvi, the guy is SO anti-Muslim it isn't even worth while.

I really don't care to get involved in this little political flame war, but why are you so pro-muslim? Are you muslim? Are you of Arabic decent? Do you have family in the region? Or should I ask, why do you hate Israel?

What it comes down to, everyone has their oppinion. Oppinions vary, but at least respect them. It gives your voiced oppinions so much more credibilty.

Manip

matt0210 wrote:

Manip wrote: I've given up talking to pacelvi, the guy is SO anti-Muslim it isn't even worth while.

I really don't care to get involved in this little political flame war, but why are you so pro-muslim? Are you muslim? Are you of Arabic decent? Do you have family in the region? Or should I ask, why do you hate Israel?

What it comes down to, everyone has their oppinion. Oppinions vary, but at least respect them. It gives your voiced oppinions so much more credibilty.

I don't hate Israel, and I'm not pro-muslim... I'm anti-anti-muslim... Thus I am pretty neutral to either side.

And pacelvi lost my respect by suggesting that everything Israel does is fundamentally "good." You can't have a real conversation with someone who sees things in black and white. Plus his border-line racist outbursts against the Coran.

pacelvi
Phear

Manip wrote:
matt0210 wrote: Manip wrote: I've given up talking to pacelvi, the guy is SO anti-Muslim it isn't even worth while. I really don't care to get involved in this little political flame war, but why are you so pro-muslim? Are you muslim? Are you of Arabic decent? Do you have family in the region? Or should I ask, why do you hate Israel?What it comes down to, everyone has their oppinion. Oppinions vary, but at least respect them. It gives your voiced oppinions so much more credibilty.I don't hate Israel, and I'm not pro-muslim... I'm anti-anti-muslim... Thus I am pretty neutral to either side. And pacelvi lost my respect by suggesting that everything Israel does is fundamentally "good." You can't have a real conversation with someone who sees things in black and white. Plus his border-line racist outbursts against the Coran.

Heh, you can at least try to spell thier holy book right.Anyway... you're a hypocrite. If you're anti Israeli because of X Y and Z, then you should be hyper-anti-Palestianian because they're X Y and Z and AA and AB and AC and AD and AE. The Pal. PROVOKE every instance of repraisals against them.. you should be mad at the Pal'ians for making Israel do the things you despise. you do understand the concept of cause and effect dont you?Why is Israel attacking Gaza now, and have in custody a good chunk of the PA cabinet? Because of A: They're bored and had nothing better to do.. or B: The Palestians attacked them from unoccupied Gaza across the quasi-international border, that's an act of war.Why aren't you mad at the Pal for starting yet another war taht cause all these Israeli atrocities you so much care about?

Shark_M

So let me get this right

Any one who stands for human values of curage and justice in this world must be of an arabic desent or even a muslim?

Is this how the world is divided now? Is this a new face of racism?

Just in the not so distant past, Blacks in America used to be segregated like this, and any one who stood up for Black rights in America was seen as a betrayal of mainstream Ideas back then.

The same people who follow the KKK and the such, the same people who liked to oppress the blacks even though its outlawed in the US nowadays, exist and they are finding fertile ground to commit racist ideas aganist a new race, namely , the Arabic race (and their religous beleives of which muslims make a large percentage). They are trying to direct anger of the public to fuel racism and discrimination in the US. Lets face it US is not the same US 10 or 20 years ago.

Racist and people who want to propagate racial divides represent the lowest most evil form of humanity. Those self-righteous, self-centered people are showing their true colors.

I wounder, when was it the last time we listened to fools and let idiots shape our history and our values?

PS: I respect Manip because he seems as a good person with a conscious. You dont find many people like him these days. Big Smile

pacelvi
Phear

Shark_M wrote:
So let me get this right

Any one who stands for human values of curage and justice in this world must be of an arabic desent or even a muslim?

Is this how the world is divided now? Is this a new face of racism?

Just in the not so distant past, Blacks in America used to be segregated like this, and any one who stood up for Black rights in America was seen as a betrayal of mainstream Ideas back then.

The same people who follow the KKK and the such, the same people who liked to oppress the blacks even though its outlawed in the US nowadays, exist and they are finding fertile ground to commit racist ideas aganist a new race, namely , the Arabic race (and their religous beleives of which muslims make a large percentage). They are trying to direct anger of the public to fuel racism and discrimination in the US. Lets face it US is not the same US 10 or 20 years ago.

Racist and people who want to propagate racial divides represent the lowest most evil form of humanity. Those self-righteous, self-centered people are showing their true colors.

I wounder, when was it the last time we listened to fools and let idiots shape our history and our values?

PS: I respect Manip because he seems as a good person with a conscious. You dont find many people like him these days.

I find it odd that you're not critical that Islam imposes on Muslims the very notion of "racial" superiority. After all, areas under Sharia law by definition enforce the notion of Muslim Men being the most legally priviledged then Muslim Women. Then the 5-th class status of Dhimmis and the non-humanity of non-monotheists.

Oh but you're silent about that. No surprise though, you have your mind so blocked from the influence of contary fact that your little avatar is probably a good visual metaphor for your thinking capacity

pacelvi
Phear

Oh, i make a bold prediction now that neither Shark nor Manip will directly address my point that the people they purport to defend are guilty of everything they despise Israel for and more. Instead they will launch into absurd tangets to sidestep that truth.

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

pacelvi wrote:

Manip wrote: matt0210 wrote: Manip wrote: I've given up talking to pacelvi, the guy is SO anti-Muslim it isn't even worth while. I really don't care to get involved in this little political flame war, but why are you so pro-muslim? Are you muslim? Are you of Arabic decent? Do you have family in the region? Or should I ask, why do you hate Israel?What it comes down to, everyone has their oppinion. Oppinions vary, but at least respect them. It gives your voiced oppinions so much more credibilty.I don't hate Israel, and I'm not pro-muslim... I'm anti-anti-muslim... Thus I am pretty neutral to either side. And pacelvi lost my respect by suggesting that everything Israel does is fundamentally "good." You can't have a real conversation with someone who sees things in black and white. Plus his border-line racist outbursts against the Coran.
Heh, you can at least try to spell thier holy book right.Anyway... you're a hypocrite. If you're anti Israeli because of X Y and Z, then you should be hyper-anti-Palestianian because they're X Y and Z and AA and AB and AC and AD and AE. The Pal. PROVOKE every instance of repraisals against them.. you should be mad at the Pal'ians for making Israel do the things you despise. you do understand the concept of cause and effect dont you?Why is Israel attacking Gaza now, and have in custody a good chunk of the PA cabinet? Because of A: They're bored and had nothing better to do.. or B: The Palestians attacked them from unoccupied Gaza across the quasi-international border, that's an act of war.Why aren't you mad at the Pal for starting yet another war taht cause all these Israeli atrocities you so much care about?

Dude, I don't know if you ran out of ritalin, but you've clearly devolved into a drooling rant.

Collect your thoughts and try again.

ScanIAm
On a scale of 1 to 10, people are stupid.

pacelvi wrote:

Oh, i make a bold prediction now that neither Shark nor Manip will directly address my point that the people they purport to defend are guilty of everything they despise Israel for and more. Instead they will launch into absurd tangets to sidestep that truth.

Look, People are allowed to point out that "Bad things happened" without mentioning every single other bad thing that has ever happened.

Has your ability to argue a topic devolved this much? Are you so blindered that you think we are unaware that both sides have done bad things?

Until you accept that, you are no better than them (Israel AND Palestine) and as such you are too involved with the argument to be taken seriously.

pacelvi
Phear

ScanIAm wrote:

pacelvi wrote:
Oh, i make a bold prediction now that neither Shark nor Manip will directly address my point that the people they purport to defend are guilty of everything they despise Israel for and more. Instead they will launch into absurd tangets to sidestep that truth.

Look, People are allowed to point out that "Bad things happened" without mentioning every single other bad thing that has ever happened.

Has your ability to argue a topic devolved this much? Are you so blindered that you think we are unaware that both sides have done bad things?

Until you accept that, you are no better than them (Israel AND Palestine) and as such you are too involved with the argument to be taken seriously.

ok, sure, both sides have done bad things.

now what?

How did that change the fact that Palestinian attacks from unoccupied Gaza have precepitated this current Israeli response?

If the complaint is that Israel is oppressing Palestians then I would assume one would be against any actor who would be the cause for the oppression including if the oppressed are bringing it upon themselves.

THat is what I see missing in everyone here who condems Israel. If the concern is about Palestinian human beings coming into harm then one should be against the actions of all who cause it.. including Palestianians. To only consistantly and usually in a out-of-context way point to Israel is to deny logic and history and highlights the disingeniousness of the complaint.

The solution to prevent the continuing problem of Israel having to harm palestians is for the palestians to stop provoking thier own detriments.

Why this is hard for you people to see mystifies me.

There is nothing in the modern Jewish culture that glorifies anything that Israel is doing. The military action Israel takes is not anything that could be called characteristic of Jews worldwide. (Occupation, assaination, shelling). The world demands that Israel abide by the very moral and humane ethics that most decent people hold. You dont see any appeals to the Palestians to live by any values they enshrine. So the Palestinains are the benefactors of this trick to human nature... when people are pretty sure that you have no standards then making appeals for you to live by your principles seems pretty absurd.. thus Israel is urged to let thier virtues be used against them as a weapon.

They are forced into this role by the nature of the attacks they face.

Anyone who cares about the Palestians would first look at the Palestians to clean up thier act if they want to not be harmed.