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pacelvi
pacelvi
Phear

This is from a guy's blog, entry made in April

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2006_04.html

“Everything Could Explode at Any Moment”
NORTHERN ISRAEL - Last year I drove down from Beirut into Hezbollah-occupied Lebanon along the border with Israel. Aside from Hezbollah’s other miniature state-within-a-state in the suburbs south of Beirut, the border region is the craziest place in the country.

The Lebanese government doesn’t control it and cannot police it. The army is not allowed to go down there. Soldiers I’ve talked to refer to the southern-most checkpoint before the Hezbollah-occupied zone as “the border." Psychotic road-side propaganda shows severed heads, explosions from suicide-bombs, and murderous tyrants from Iran and Syria.

 

Lisa Goldman and I decided to drive up there and take a look from the Israeli side.

“I should warn you,” I said in the car. “Something is wrong on the border. Something bad is going to happen.”

“Why do you say that?” she said.

I told her what I knew, what had recently happened when I tried to visit the border again from the Lebanese side just two weeks before.


*

My British friend Andrew flew out to Beirut from Washington. He wanted to visit the border. I wanted to go back to the border. So we rented a car and drove down to Saida where foreigners are required to get permission from the Lebanese army before being allowed beyond the last official checkpoint.

We found our way to the office of the ranking military intelligence officer.

“What is your nationality?” he said.

“He’s British,” I said, referring to Andrew. “And I’m American.”

The officer clasped his hands loudly together. “You are not going down there today,” he said.

“Why not?” I said.

He made an I-don’t-know face that was terrifically, intentionally, and even comically insincere.

“Is it for security reasons?” I said.

“Of course,” he said. “You can go,” he said to Andrew. “But you,” he said, meaning me, “can’t go anywhere near the border right now.”

“Why not?” I said. “What’s going on?”

He laughed.

“Oh, come on,” I said. “You can tell me. Who am I going to tell?” (Har har.)

He shook his head. “No,” he said. He was deadly serious about keeping me away from that border.

“Are you worried I will do something?” I said. “Or are you worried something will happen to me?”

“Something might happen to you,” he said.

“Is it Hezbollah? The Israelis? What?”

He made his goofy what-do-I-know face once again. “I am sorry,” he said. “It’s too dangerous. You aren’t going.”


*

That was all I could get out of the Lebanese army. The Israeli army was a little more willing to talk.

Lisa and I met Israeli Defense Forces Spokesman Zvika Golan at a base in the north near the border. He told us to follow him in his jeep as he drove to a lookout point next to an IDF watch tower that opened up over Lebanon.

 


“You aren’t safe here right now,” he said.

“I know,” I said. “The Lebanese army wouldn’t let me anywhere near the border two weeks ago. What’s going on?”

“Hezbollah is planning an operation,” he said.

“How do you know?” I said.

“We know,” he said and nodded.

I knew he was right. The Lebanese intelligence officer more or less told me the same thing. He didn’t say the threat was from Hezbollah, but he didn’t have to.

“What do you think about all this?” I said.

“We really want the Lebanese army on this border,” he said.

Lebanon and Israel technically have been at war for many decades. But Israel and Lebanon have never actually fought any battles. Israel has been involved in plenty of fighting in Lebanon, but none of it ever involved the Lebanese army or government. Neither side has ever actually fired on the other. Neither side wants to. All Israel’s Lebanon battles were waged against the PLO and Hezbollah.

“Are you in contact with the Lebanese government?” I said.

“We pass messages to the Lebanese army through the UN,” he said.

“How well are they received?” I said.

“Oh, they’re received very well,” he said. “The only problem is the Lebanese army can’t act against Hezbollah.”

He introduced me to a young bearded lieutenant in the IDF (left, below) on border patrol duty.

 


“I have worked on the Jordanian and Egyptian borders,” he said. “This is the worst. The strangest feeling here is that the other side is a no-man’s land. There is no authority that you’re working against. It is extremely out of the ordinary to see any Lebanese police or army. Only Hezbollah is armed.”

“What do you see when you look at Lebanon?” I asked the lieutenant.

“I see poverty and difficult circumstances,” he said. “I see poor farmers who work hard. After so many years of war, the last thing they probably want is more war.”

“Do you know what you’re looking at when you look into the towns?” I said.

“We track movement on the other side,” he said. “I can tell you exactly what each of those buildings are for.”

 


“What about people?” I said. “Can you tell who belongs to Hezbollah and who just happens to live there?”

“99 percent of the time I know who I’m looking at by their face,” he said. Hezbollah will love learning that if they’re still reading my blog.

The lieutenant was easily ten years younger than me. But he was so ground down from world-weariness he sounded like a man 30 years older who hadn't slept for three days.

“Any minute now something huge could break out," he said. "I am afraid to go home and leave my soldiers. When Hezbollah decides to do something, they do it. And they’re pretty good at it.”

"What do you think they'll do next?" I said.

“I have no idea," he said. "They could do anything. Kidnapping. Sniper.”

"How do you feel about that?" I said.

“Well,” he said. “You get pretty cynical about it after a while.”

“Do you think they’re watching us?” Lisa said.

“They are watching you right at this second,” the lieutenant said. “You are definitely being photographed. It’s possible you’re being watched through a sniper rifle.”

To say I felt naked and exposed at that moment would be a real understatement. I felt like my skin was invisible, that psychopaths were boring holes with their eyes straight to the core of my being. At the same time, I knew they did not see me as a person. They saw me as a potential massacre target.

I know Hezbollah wouldn’t hurt me in Lebanon, even though they did call me on my cell phone and threaten me with physical violence. All bets are off while standing next to IDF soldiers in Israel, though. Whoever was watching me surely dehumanized me as a Jew (even though I'm a non-religious "Christian") who belonged to the little Satanic fit-for-destruction Zionist Entity.

I wouldn’t say I felt scared. But I certainly didn’t feel comfortable. The earth seemed slightly tilted. Lebanon feels unhinged and psychotic from the Israeli side of the line. At least it did on that day. I kept having to remind myself that the country I love and lived in is not at all represented by the nutcases with guns in the hills who like to pick off Jews on the border.

 

“How dangerous is it here, really?” I asked the lieutenant.

“I say this to my guys every morning: Everything could explode at any moment. Just after I said it this morning a bus load of pensioners showed up on a field trip. An old woman brought us some food. It’s crazy. They shouldn’t be here. You shouldn’t be here.”

“What’s happening here is very unusual," Zvika, the Israeli Defense Forces Spokesman, said. But he wouldn't tell me what, exactly, was so unusual. Shortly after I left the country, a story broke in the Daily Telegraph that explained it.

Iran has moved into South Lebanon. Intelligence agents are helping Hezbollah construct watch towers fitted with one-way bullet-proof windows right next to Israeli army positions.

Here's what one officer said:
This is now Iran's front line with Israel. The Iranians are using Hizbollah to spy on us so that they can collect information for future attacks. And there is very little we can do about it.
More powerful weapons, including missiles with a range of 30 miles, are also being brought in.

I asked Zvika about the last time Hezbollah and Israel got into a hot war.

“It was last November,” he said. “Hezbollah invaded the village of Ghajar in white jeeps that looked like they belonged to the UN. We bombed their positions with air strikes. After a while, the Lebanese army asked us to stop. So we stopped right away.”

"Why did you stop?" I said. "You stopped just because the Lebanese army asked you to stop?"

He looked surprised by my question.

“Of course we stopped because they asked," he said. "We have very good relations with them. We're working with them and trying to help make them relevant.”

Lebanon never admits anything like this in public.

The rhetoric that comes out of Beirut in Arabic rarely has anything to do with reality. The Lebanese government regularly affirms its "brotherhood" with Syria, its former murderous master that still knocks off elected officials and journalists. Undying loyalty to the Palestinian cause is constantly trumpeted, even while Lebanon treats its hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees worse than neglected zoo animals. Arab Nationalism is another regular theme, even though Arab Nationalism is more dead in Lebanon than in any other country around.

"The UN says Hezbollah started the last fight," I said to the lieutenant. "Do you ever start any fights?"

“They always initiate," he said. "We never do. I want to go home. I want to read the newspaper and get more than three hours of sleep every night. We have no business here.”

"Are you scared?" I said.

“I am scared," he said. "As an officer I want my men to be scared.”

"Are they?" I said.

“Not enough," he said. "Not enough.”

 

..so a small button that says: "Move to Politics/Religion Forum"

if 3 people click it - thats where it goes.  (no dundgeon or "pit" or other deragatory terms.  There is a new place for that stuff is all - and in 3 user clicks - it goes there.

?

DoomBringer
DoomBringer
Doom!
pacelvi, please do not repost entire articles.  It is plagiarism.  The most you're realistically allowed to do is an excerpt and a link.

Unless of course, you're writing a critical analysis.  Then it is more acceptable to excerpt liberally and add your own comments.

i dont think there is yet

pacelvi - you do post good stuff (yes i checked Wink) - just sometimes this war, politics, etc stuff starts even more wars  (here)

anyway - dont take any offence - but ya - to me this is tagged "Politics/Religion"  *wheres my ie7 spell checker! Expressionless

Cybermagellan
Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything
Not everything needs to explode, just the gas tanks at the airfield....

Thank you ladies and gentlemen I'll be here all night
dont worry about it - youve been here since 2004! Wink

2 posts - then gone - then back in 2006

where did you go?
pacelvi wrote:

jamie wrote: dont worry about it - youve been here since 2004!

2 posts - then gone - then back in 2006

where did you go?


In 2004-2005 I was immersed in my re-self-education on programming (after a 4 year break, leaving off at Java).. I had the whole C#/.Net thing to learn.  My initials posts back then didnt' get much traction, so I just been lurking all this time.



The Lurkers .... hmmm i like it! Wink
DoomBringer
DoomBringer
Doom!
pacelvi wrote:

DoomBringer wrote: pacelvi, please do not repost entire articles.  It is plagiarism.  The most you're realistically allowed to do is an excerpt and a link.

Unless of course, you're writing a critical analysis.  Then it is more acceptable to excerpt liberally and add your own comments.


How can it be plagerism?  Plagerism would be to pretend I wrote it.

I did post a link at the top of the thread and I did only post an excerpt of the web page.

If I posted LoTR: Return of the King in its entirety, while citing it, it'd be in the wrong. 
Sure, I wouldn't be claiming it as my own, but I'd still be posting the entire thing, which would at least violate copyright.
Tom Servo
Tom Servo
W-hat?
Seriously guys, get that sand out of your pants. Lately, anything not tech-related gets shot down here as soon it shows up. You're all annoying as hell.
Yea you are absolutely right.

This is typical of Israel's state sponsored terror. To target civilians. Why else would they bomb a civilian international Airport in Beriut? Or destroy civilian roads? Why would they threaten lebanon to go back 20 years? They are punishing the average lebanese citizen.

Now Israel left Gaza, they never got their soldier back, But when they entered there they said the objective of this is to get back their soldier, and they eded up terrorising the civilian population and oppressing them by taking out the basic infrastructure there (not that its already bad because the support for their democratically elected govenrment was withdrawn at Israel's request).

So if Israel is targeting civilian infrastructure and civilians, why isnt Israel in the Terror sponsoring countries list in the US state department? Why is Washington turning a blind eye at the genocide that Israel is commiting in gaza, and trying to "turn heaven and earth" to stop the one in Darfur? Typical American hypocracy if you ask me!

Rotem Kirshenbaum
Rotem Kirshenbaum
The Master Of Cherries
Shark_M wrote:

This is typical of Israel's state sponsored terror. To target civilians. Why else would they bomb a civilian international Airport in Beriut? Or destroy civilian roads?


Israel is trying to prevent the relocation of kidnapped israeli soldiers (remember them ?) to other hostile countries, like Iran.

Shark_M wrote:

So if Israel is targeting civilian infrastructure and civilians, why isnt Israel in the Terror sponsoring countries list in the US state department? Why is Washington turning a blind eye at the genocide that Israel is commiting in gaza, and trying to "turn heaven and earth" to stop the one in Darfur? Typical American hypocracy if you ask me!


Israel is not targeting civilians. Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbolla are.

Peace,
Rotem
Sourcecode
Sourcecode
Whatever it is, I didn't do it.
Does anyone else see Iran getting involed in all this crap? If so, why? In what form?

Rotem Kirshenbaum
Rotem Kirshenbaum
The Master Of Cherries
Sourcecode wrote:
Does anyone else see Iran getting involed in all this crap? If so, why? In what form?


They provide funds, training and weapons to Hezbolla, as far as I know.

Peace,
Rotem
Sourcecode
Sourcecode
Whatever it is, I didn't do it.
Rotem Kirshenbaum wrote:

Sourcecode wrote: Does anyone else see Iran getting involed in all this crap? If so, why? In what form?


They provide funds, training and weapons to Hezbolla, as far as I know.

Peace,
Rotem


Do you think this could escalate into something much bigger ? Or do you think Iran will try too keep out of it ?
Rotem Kirshenbaum
Rotem Kirshenbaum
The Master Of Cherries

All I can say is that I hope the situation won't escalate.

Peace,
Rotem

Sourcecode
Sourcecode
Whatever it is, I didn't do it.
Rotem Kirshenbaum wrote:


All I can say is that I hope the situation won't escalate.

Peace,
Rotem



Same here :O, this hole thing kind of worries me. Anyway, thanks for the input. Let's hope it does not get any worse. I feel for those on both sides.
Israeli soldiers are military not civilians.

Israel is targeting civilian infrastructure in Lebanon.

There fore Israel is targeting civilians and the Lebanese economy.

If Israel wanted to gain the freedom of their soldiers do you think what Israel is doing now going to accomplish that? The withdrawal from Gaza should give you a big hint.



Just now The Arab summit said that the Peace process in the middle east is now "Dead". The secretary general said that the Arab countries reserve the right to defend their interest, and all options are in the table if the UN does not stop Israeli terrorist actions in Lebanon. He further said that if Israel can terrorize innocent Lebanese and Palestinian civilians by taking down the electricity and the civilian airports, then no one now can look us in the eye and talk about terrorism.

Israel now is accusing Iran of sending 100 special operation soldiers from the Iranian Republican Guards, to help Hezbollah, but Iran categorically denied that.

This is a leading to a total collapse of all peace efforts in the region. This will help fuel terrorism in that part of the world, instead of stopping it. What Israel is doing is irresponsible, and would lead to destabilization in the middle east. Abduction of 2 or 3 Israeli soldiers should NOT make Israel do what its doing in Lebanon. The only way to release those is through diplomacy and through prisoner exchange.

But I feel that , This is all part of the master Plan that Bush administration is doing to mount an assault on Iran's nuclear program. They want to intimidate Iran into fighting Israel and thus the US would go on to defend its allay Israel.

But there are voices of moderation in the Middle east. People there are saying this is essentially why Israel would do such a thing in Lebanon. Its got the green light from US Bush administration to do so. I guess these people caught the Bush Administration and the Israeli Administration with their pants down!

But even if they know this, and even if this is not the case, the situation is going worse minute by minute, in Lebanon, and whatever the outcome is, the Lebanese people and the Arab world would be plagued with terrorist roaming the streets and America's interests in the middle east would be threatened.

Its time for some of the wise people in the world to throw some ice cubes into the flames, to cool things down and let people go back to the negotiation and to adopting peace. Where are we going to end up with after many have died? Is this the way we want it? I never thought this would happen in the 21-century. All what President Clinton did went to waste now, just because Israel and the Bush administration want to invade another govern country: Iran and Syria.

They know they cannot sell this war to the American people, so Bush would say , let Israel enter into Gaza and let them enter Lebanon, and that is how the new war on Syria would go. The American people might buy into it because they will claim they are backing their strategic friend in the region.

Lets wait and see what will happen. From what I see in CNN, the Arab world is boiling. I hope the white peace bird have left some eggs to revive the peace process in the Middle east.Expressionless
Larsenal
Larsenal
ready to give an answer
Shark_M wrote:

Israel now is accusing Iran of sending 100 special operation soldiers from the Iranian Republican Guards, to help Hezbollah, but Iran categorically denied that.


Iran said it, so it must be true.

Did you read the posted article?  For several months (maybe longer) soldiers on the northern border of Israel have known that Iran is aiding Hezbollah.

Out of curiousity, when was the last time you visited the Israel-Lebanon border? Or even spoke to members of the IDF stationed there?

Shark_M wrote:
The only way to release those is through diplomacy and through prisoner exchange.


I don't like your plan for dealing with terrorists.  By doing a prisoner exchange, you give terrorists an incentive to capture more Israeli soldiers.  If Israel did what you suggest, then all Hezbollah would need to do to get back prisoners is to capture as many IDF soldiers as possible.  That scenario would lead to more conflict and violence... not less.

Your ideas would probably be well accepted in France.
Larsenal wrote:

Shark_M wrote: 
Israel now is accusing Iran of sending 100 special operation soldiers from the Iranian Republican Guards, to help Hezbollah, but Iran categorically denied that.


Iran said it, so it must be true.

Did you read the posted article?  For several months (maybe longer) soldiers on the northern border of Israel have known that Iran is aiding Hezbollah.

Out of curiousity, when was the last time you visited the Israel-Lebanon border? Or even spoke to members of the IDF stationed there?



Yes.

Larsenal wrote:


Shark_M wrote: The only way to release those is through diplomacy and through prisoner exchange.


I don't like your plan for dealing with terrorists.  By doing a prisoner exchange, you give terrorists an incentive to capture more Israeli soldiers.  If Israel did what you suggest, then all Hezbollah would need to do to get back prisoners is to capture as many IDF soldiers as possible.  That scenario would lead to more conflict and violence... not less.



why do you call legitimate resistance to occupying imperial powers terrorist? Please educate yourself as to what terrorism is. This is funny because when iraqi's began resistance operations some called them terrorists. It is not a political aim to liberate your own country against forgein occupying powers.

Israel took prisoners too. Most of them are un-armed civilians picked up at IDF pleasure.

So These people abducted Military soldiers not civilians, so how can you say they are terrorists. On the contrary, those who target international civilian airports and electric power plants, and civilian roads as well as kill as many as 95 innocent Lebanese civilians including women and kids as young as 3 year old, are terrorists.

What do you expect these oppressed people to do? Wait like sheep for Israeli Terrorism to take them into jails or terrorize their families? for a change , lose the one-sided views of the world and look at what is happening from the shoes of both sides.

Some might claim that Israel withdrew from Gaza, but that is not true. They still controlled the border with Egypt , the sea ports and they commit acts of terror against the Palestinian people by daily assassination and humiliation of the average Palestinian at border crossings. So what would you do if you were in the shoes of these people?

Israel is a tyrannical government that was formed based on terror from the start some 50 years ago. They committed terror against the British who colonized it, and they used their financial influence to make the UN declare that part their own. Israel is based on religious fanaticism and they are no different in their thinking than the Taliban. only they do it in a westerly acceptable way.

So stop the hypocrisy and look un-bias at the world. Why would Palestinians fire rockets? Because Israel is carrying out daily assassinations and their military helicopters are terrifying the people there on-top of the oppression. Its a natural human response to state sponsored terrorism by the Zionist regime.

Israel showed today that it is not really serious about peace with its neighbors. They don't really believe in Mr. Bush's 2 state solution. They would do anything (like the beach terror-action against Palestinian family out to enjoy a day at the beach) to derail the peace process. The response to the abduction of 2 Israeli Military soldiers speaks volumes about this. They were willing to Kill the peace process for 2 Military soldiers.

Israel does and remains to be committed to establishing its state from the Euphrates to the Nile rivers. They are not interested in peace with the Arabs.

I don't know why the US is backing a terrorist and a tyrannical regime in the Middle east. Israel needs to be held accountable for its actions and Israel needs to be disarmed for there to be peace in the region. Iran would say why the hypocrisy. Iran would say to the US you are backing Israel militarily and giving it nuclear war heads and biological weapons and you don't want us to develop these too?

So there is a clear hypocrisy here. If Israel wants peace , why would it have one of the most destructive weapons in its arsenals? What does it hope to use them against? Naturally the Arabs feel threatened by this, and countries like Iran and Syria would develop their own weapons to defend against a threat.

One thing is clear. There is no interest by people to keep the peace. The total lack of responsibility on the part of Israel speaks to that end. The barbaric aggression into lebanon and the killing of its civilians and destruction of its civilian population speaks volumes about its intentions withregards to world peace and stability in the Middle East.

My 2 cents

Larsenal
Larsenal
ready to give an answer
Shark_M, we're talking about Lebanon and Hezbollah.  Tell me, who has oppressed the people of Lebanon for the past 20 years?  Israel or Hezbollah?

FYI, the IDF has a good relationship with the army of Lebanon.  They are not hostile toward the general Lebanese population.  Their enemy is Hezbollah.  In the past few days, they warned the Lebanese people to stay away from Hezbollah strongholds.  Why?  Because they don't  want to harm innocent civilians.

Please stay on topic, Shark_M.  Explain in your own words why Hezbollah should be considered a legitimate organization, defend them against the worldwide consensus that they are terrorists and explain what positive result you believe would follow if the IDF retreated immediately.  How would a stronger, established Hezbollah presence would help the cause of the Lebanese people in the long run?

Also, please establish Hezbollah's track record of responding well to diplomacy.  Give me concrete examples and you'll convince me.
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