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TommyCarlier
I want my scalps!

Define application. Define game. A game is an application. What types of development will be allowed? Could they prohibit one from writing a word processor or calculator with it?

phreaks

TommyCarlier wrote:
Define application. Define game. A game is an application. What types of development will be allowed? Could they prohibit one from writing a word processor or calculator with it?

That is basically my question.

Can I write an IM client or a media player and have it be distrubted on Xbox Live?

HumanCompiler
Compiling humans...and code

phreaks wrote:

TommyCarlier wrote: Define application. Define game. A game is an application. What types of development will be allowed? Could they prohibit one from writing a word processor or calculator with it?

That is basically my question.

Can I write an IM client or a media player and have it be distrubted on Xbox Live?

Like TommyCarlier said, you could write just about anything you like. That said, I believe Xbox Live is not part of this program at this time. Don't quote me on that as I need to do some more research myself, but I believe that to be the case. Discussing it in the hallway with some co-workers I believe I heard that the Xbox Live services are really paid for by the various game studios themselves so it wont' be available to someone paying $100.

neus
Freerider

phreaks wrote:

Since XNA uses some version of the .Net Framework, whose to say development should be limited to games?

My interest is more in homebrew apps. Media Players, Karaokee applications, perhaps even some IM or VoIP apps.

That will depend of how much of the standard .net runtime will be available in the 360 version of it, but even if the libs do exist, in the end its MS call, since they will be regulating what gets published of not.

phreaks wrote:

Can you even build a decent game using managed code?

On today's modern systems the difference is almost neglectible in most common tasks, and unless you're trying to build a .NET port of F.E.A.R you won't even feel the difference.

BryanF

They've published a FAQ: http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/xna/faq/

Minh
WOOH! WOOH!

neus wrote:

On today's modern systems the difference is almost neglectible in most common tasks, and unless you're trying to build a .NET port of F.E.A.R you won't even feel the difference.

I wouldn't say "negligible" (or neglectible Smiley

) Because I notice a 20% slower frame rate in Managed DirectX apps. That means a game that can pump out 200 FPS will now be going at 160 FPS. Slower, but who cares?

littleguru
<3 Seattle

Me is getting nervous. Very nervous. A new toy... play, want, fast, now...

I'M EXCITED!

Can't wait to get my hands dirty.

Is it available for everybody? How can I get it (once released)? - aah yes I'm signing up at connect right now...

phreaks

HumanCompiler wrote:

<snip>
Like TommyCarlier said, you could write just about anything you like. That said, I believe Xbox Live is not part of this program at this time. Don't quote me on that as I need to do some more research myself, but I believe that to be the case. Discussing it in the hallway with some co-workers I believe I heard that the Xbox Live services are really paid for by the various game studios themselves so it wont' be available to someone paying $100.</snip>

C'mon, they gotta throw us a bigger bone then that!
I mean, I am not ungrateful, especially after having fiddled with original Xbox XDK development.

I wouldn't even be able to create a multi-player XBL port of my favorite atari game, Combat!

Up the dev fee's by $50 for those interested in creating multiplayer games/apps and the additional fee's can go to a 'community sandbox XBL server' ?

neus
Freerider

Minh wrote:

neus wrote:
On today's modern systems the difference is almost neglectible in most common tasks, and unless you're trying to build a .NET port of F.E.A.R you won't even feel the difference.

I wouldn't say "negligible" (or neglectible ) Because I notice a 20% slower frame rate in Managed DirectX apps. That means a game that can pump out 200 FPS will now be going at 160 FPS. Slower, but who cares?

Well i was _trying_ to write a rather long post trying to explain that high frame rates are not SO important in most cases, but since Firefox already crashed like 4 times now ... i give up Expressionless

( I've used FF 2 alpha for ages and never crashed, switched to the newer beta version and already crashed 5 times in 10mins Mad

.... )

Summarizing:

Our eyes can differentiate images at a speed of up to 72fps, more than that is overkill;
A typical monitor ( 17'' CRT monitor being the norm ) will have a refresh of up to 85Hz, so anything over 85fps is discarded. Its even more common to see 75Hz or 60Hz;
Different game genres will have different fps needs. A FPS will need a higher constant fps rate while a MMORPG lower fps rates will suffice . That's why games like Vice City have their frame rates locked to 30fps, they don't need more.

Since most games won't be full featured first person shooters, even 60fps will be overkill for the most part of them.

What i'm trying to say is that in most cases the performance difference is negligible ( not neglectible like i said earlier- thanks for the correction Wink

-, not having english as my first language sometime causes this ) because you simply won't need it and the performance it gives is more than sufficient.

You won't need 100fps to play Pong .NET or a port of 3D Monster Maze, hell 60fps will be more than enough for 80% of the games to be created.

Escamillo

BryanF wrote:
They've published a FAQ: http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/xna/faq/

I like the last question in the FAQ:
Q: What does XNA stand for?
A: XNA’s Not Acronymed

Taking a que from the *nix guys. Wink