IE Market Share Drops to Lowest Level in Years | The Coffeehouse

jamie

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061010-7949.html

sorry - i know it's on slashdot - but then again - im no fan of the new locked - scattered UI in ie7

my favourite browser dying a slow death from sales guys, paranoia and security enema's

sad

in other news read Ballmers latest here:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2006/tc20061011_940241.htm?campaign_id=bier_tco.g3a.rss1011a

the comments are the best part...

Jack Poison
At what price, Freedom?

I think its quite simple. Microsoft has to give a reason for us to use IE 7 (or IE in general). And it hasn't.

Just ask yourself: why would I use IE? Maybe some sites require it. Maybe I don't know any better and think I have to use what comes with the computer.

It sure isn't the scattered UI (I agree Jamie): Why aren't the buttons together?

It isn't the FTP screen.. (I used to be able to type ftp://myurl.com and do what I need to from IE. Now, I get the directory listing, but in order to use the explorer, I have to find the Page button, which isn't just a button, but a menu button, and select to open up in explorer.

Microsoft should re-think IE. Tabula Rasa. Blank Slate. $crew the Marketing people. $crew older version compatibility. Find out what people need, not necessarily what they think they want. THEN go back and worry about compatibility with the older IE stuff.

Rowan
Look, no errors.

The release of Vista is the only thing that can save* IE7 in my opinion, most people who purchase Vista will be happy with the default applications and won't bother looking for alternatives.

Casual Windows users will realise how bad IE6 is when they recieve IE7 from the Windows update, if they're not satisfied with IE7 then I wouldn't be surprised if they started to look at existing alternatives.

*By 'save', I mean keep it above 80%. Wink

Ucsbguy

Can't really trust statistics, different studies with different results:
http://www.windowsitpro.com/Articles/ArticleID/93827/93827.html
Slashdot will just pick the ones that are most favorable to their opinions.

Jamie: Tabs on by default exposes it to people who may otherwise not notice.

You have probably seen this before, but if the file menu thing really bugs you, use this:
http://enhanceie.com/ie/tweaks.asp

jamie

its silly stuff too - like this from here:
http://shellrevealed.com/forums/post/3059.aspx

ok - say you dont ever want to see TABS in your LIFE

in firefox - turn them off you have a functioning thin UI
In IE - youve still got the bars - and file etc inst even showing..

(let me see what this actually looks like ....sec..)

here:

Removing links and file - sec...

ok - i will say it is not as bad as i thought. i just left tabs on all the time - i dont use them. i didnt know if you turned of tabs - the UI elements went back to the LEFT where they should be... even if they look ugly and akward - at least there's no more reaching / searching

hmm. but i need my links bar - and i prefer the file edit thats in all apps - so ill have to get used to the other screencap above..
bleaugh...

jamie

Ucsbguy wrote:

Tabs on by default exposes it to people who may otherwise not notice.

You have probably seen this before, but if the file menu thing really bugs you, use this:
http://enhanceie.com/ie/tweaks.asp

OMFG!!! THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!! no more search!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*now if i could just move "links" down - beside "home etc" ... like this...

..hope they add that ability

....that almost looks like....like... IE! Wink

edit* note to c9 guys - can we get the little ie icon in the address bar to be c9guys head?

Update - links top right - almost there....

JChung2006

What a silly article. Most businesses dream of the kind of market share that Internet Explorer has.

IE = the New York Yankees of Web browsers.

Jason Cox
Longtime C9 Lurker

It dropped? Paul Thurrott says it went up and is quoting OneStat.
http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/93827/93827.html

SecretSoftware
Code to live, but Live to code.

The New FireFox 2.0 RC1 , has an inline spell checker. So its going to work like word spell checker, it puts dotted redlines under incorrectly spelled words, and when you right click on top of it, it gives you suggestions and you can choose a suggestion and it corrects the words. Its handy for forums and other things.

Also, when you go to the search bar in the top right coner, it gives you suggestions as you type the words. ITs really cool.

I am going to stick with FireFOX, its open source, and its advancing more and more. IE7 is good, but its slow as hell and eats more memory, and is not as secure as FireFox.

The IE team tried to copy Firefox's features, but although its a nice try, its not like the FireFox experiance. Now with version 2.0, all the stuff in IE7, are in FireFox, with more compatiblity for websites that were broken before with firefox.

MS IE7 team need to make something drastically different, that capture the imaginations of people, yet is simple and fast and performant at the same time.

Now if only C9 is more compatible with FireFox so as to allow me to view the videos right of the website, rather than downloading them, that would be cool.For now I am using the firefox extension, called IE tab, to view C9 and view the videos on the website. Works for me.

Detroit Muscle
Wii!

JChung2006 wrote:

IE = the New York Yankees of Web browsers.

200 million dollar flop?

BruceMorgan

jamie wrote:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061010-7949.html

sorry - i know it's on slashdot - but then again - im no fan of the new locked - scattered UI in ie7

my favourite browser dying a slow death from sales guys, paranoia and security enema's

sad

I realize this isn't a constructive thing for me to be saying, but don't you ever get tired of grinding the same ax?

Isn't there something more productive, something that contributes more to the world and/or this forum, than the same repetitive complaints posted time and again?

Ucsbguy

"The IE team tried to copy Firefox's features" - SecretSoftware

Didn't Firefox just copy Opera's features, and I'm sure if IE did not include things that people demand, then you would be on this forum complaining that 'The IE team just doesn't GET IT, why won't just give the people what they want'

Complain, complain, complain

Custa1200
Havok13andaThird

BruceMorgan wrote:

jamie wrote:http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061010-7949.html

sorry - i know it's on slashdot - but then again - im no fan of the new locked - scattered UI in ie7

my favourite browser dying a slow death from sales guys, paranoia and security enema's

sad
I realize this isn't a constructive thing for me to be saying, but don't you ever get tired of grinding the same ax?

Isn't there something more productive, something that contributes more to the world and/or this forum, than the same repetitive complaints posted time and again?

Maybe if the axe was sharp enough not to need so much grinding on. Unfortunately it's lost a lot of metal.

IE has come along a long way with 7 but there is still so much to not like about it compared to other browsers (no browser is perfect)

Rossj

jamie wrote:

Why wasn't the file menu there in the first place? And why have to rely on an extension to put some consistency (with other apps) back into the UI?

I am probably alone in thinking this, but the only things I only really expected IE7 to do was improve the rendering, any security issues, and *maybe* Rss support (but not the one that borks my apps). Maybe tabs as well but 'off by default' like Safari.

AndyC

Rossj wrote:

Why wasn't the file menu there in the first place? And why have to rely on an extension to put some consistency (with other apps) back into the UI?

Do you ever actually use it? I mean, the only thing that annoys me about the menu bar is that in IE6 I can't turn it off, so it's just a pointless row of pixel wastage. I dunno, maybe I've been using IE7 for too long....

Rossj

AndyC wrote:

Rossj wrote:
Why wasn't the file menu there in the first place? And why have to rely on an extension to put some consistency (with other apps) back into the UI?

Do you ever actually use it? I mean, the only thing that annoys me about the menu bar is that in IE6 I can't turn it off, so it's just a pointless row of pixel wastage. I dunno, maybe I've been using IE7 for too long....

I don't my parents did (before I moved them to a Mac) and I see people every day who don't want to be shown shortcuts, and want to open a file or URL the hard way.

Rory
Free Tibet While Supplies Last

Rossj wrote:

jamie wrote:

Why wasn't the file menu there in the first place? And why have to rely on an extension to put some consistency (with other apps) back into the UI?

I am probably alone in thinking this, but the only things I only really expected IE7 to do was improve the rendering, any security issues, and *maybe* Rss support (but not the one that borks my apps). Maybe tabs as well but 'off by default' like Safari.

For the menu bar, just click on the Tools button (the one that looks like a gear) and click on "Menu Bar".

There. It's back.

Another way to get to it (temporarily) is by just pressing the alt key.

As for expectations - I think you very well may be alone in what you expected. Tabs, for me, were a must. I was using AvantGo years ago - long before working for MS - and it left me wondering why MS hadn't implemented tab support. I think we should have seen it much sooner (and I'm not talking about the tabs included with the MSN toolbar - that implementation was lacking).

And, I'm guessing the menu bar wasn't there "in the first place" because it's wasted real estate. Maybe I'm the odd one out here, but I hardly ever use the menu, and there really isn't much I need to do that I can't already do just by clicking on a button.

Seriously, this petty ragging on IE7 is crap. I understand that it's all the rage to like Firefox right now, but that doesn't mean having to slam IE.

I've never understood people who limit themselves to one answer or the other when there are actually many different options.

On Windows, I use both IE and Firefox. Neither one is perfect, and sometimes I need to use one instead of the other (although I prefer IE7 - and not just because I work for MS).

On my Macs, I use Camino mainly, but I prefer Safari. Safari provides a much nicer experience than the other choices, but KHTML kind of sucks for all these new AJAXifisized sites.

But, don't let me get in the way. Carry on with the petty, pointless battle...

Rory
Free Tibet While Supplies Last

Rossj wrote:

AndyC wrote:

Rossj wrote:
Why wasn't the file menu there in the first place? And why have to rely on an extension to put some consistency (with other apps) back into the UI?

Do you ever actually use it? I mean, the only thing that annoys me about the menu bar is that in IE6 I can't turn it off, so it's just a pointless row of pixel wastage. I dunno, maybe I've been using IE7 for too long....

I don't my parents did (before I moved them to a Mac) and I see people every day who don't want to be shown shortcuts, and want to open a file or URL the hard way.

What files are these non-power users trying to open using browsers?

And what's the "hard" way of entering a URL that involves the menu?

Are you trying to say that users you encounter go to File -> Open to get to a page?

Shouldn't those people just be left behind anyway? That's like dialing a telephone number by slamming your forehead into the keypad.

Cyonix
Me

I would love IE7 if they had just kept the refresh and stop buttons on the left.

Most non-tech people will be confused as they will not know how to stop a page from loading. Yes, this happened to me when i first started using IE7. The first this i said "what the hell they got rid of the stop and refresh buttons!!"

Maybe it's because i run a really high resolution or perhaps i'm just stupid, either way the format shouldn't have been changed.

WBurggraaf

Rory wrote:

What files are these non-power users trying to open using browsers?

And what's the "hard" way of entering a URL that involves the menu?

Are you trying to say that users you encounter go to File -> Open to get to a page?

Shouldn't those people just be left behind anyway? That's like dialing a telephone number by slamming your forehead into the keypad.

As you should know as a soldier of the Microsoft force that you will never leave no one behind. And trompets begins to shatter Smiley

.

Anyone who dares to say without the thougts about safety and fear for the big internet, that firefox render good looking controls. I mean it still look so damned ugly.

Thats why I believe Internet Explorer has an real advantage above the other key players. It just looks nice Cool

.

No for real, why Mozilla and others just mostley are safer, because they support alot less stuff. And they try to be compliant to each opensource w3c css protocoll. Well if thats what it makes it great, I think that realy stinks.

eagle

BruceMorgan wrote:

I realize this isn't a constructive thing for me to be saying, but don't you ever get tired of grinding the same ax?

Isn't there something more productive, something that contributes more to the world and/or this forum, than the same repetitive complaints posted time and again?

It's Groundhog's day everyday on C9....

- petty ragging on IE7, Rory the day is just begining....

KevinB

I admit I hated the IE7 UI at first, genuinely hated it.

But I have stuck with it, and I find myself now never really even thinking about where things are or how to do things, it is just another tool to get things down.

Quite the opposite of everyone elses experience it would seem, but I also find IE7 noticeably faster than Firefox on my machine.

I love protected mode, I think it is a great feature (on Vista only granted)

Printing has caught up with firefox.

Zoom is a million times better than firefox, and as my eyesight isn't so great I find myself using this a fair bit.

All in all I think this is a good release, and considering the sheer number of people that this is going out to, I think they have done a good job.

Kevin

One thing I can't work out though, and prob just me being an eejit, but why does the RSS feed download podcasts etc into my temporary net files? Is there anyone I can tell it to download files directly into my documents or something?

Also, downloading in general is nowhere near as good as firefox.

BlackTiger
If you stumbled and fell down, it doesn't mean yet, that you're going in the wrong direction.

Ok.

Just implement AdBlock for IE7 (FOR FREE!) and I will be with you forever (ok, almost). No problem. Until that IE is dead for me.

Also I want to see my bookmarks on the right side, NOT LEFT! I'm right-handed and this location is more suitable (I'm using TabletPC!).

PS: IE7 memory consumtion is "AMAZING"! 70-80 megs minimum. 200-300 after visiting several sites.

Jhaks

BlackTiger wrote:

PS: IE7 memory consumtion is "AMAZING"! 70-80 megs minimum. 200-300 after visiting several sites.

I gave it a test and opening 7 tabs with different pages brings me to 108 MBs in IE 7. This might seem high I guess but I also tried firefox with the same configuration of 7 pages and its memory usage came to 94 MBs. Not a big difference and it seems like most of the memory usage from both browsers comes from caching the pages in memory. This is the first version of IE 7 (not to mention it was redesigned internally and externally) so we are bound to see imporvements.

Oh yea... I really like IE 7. Very easy and stream lined. Not to mention protected mode is fantastic.

j0217995

Maybe I'm just stupid, but I guess I don't see all the need for the complaining over UI design. Can someone please explain that to me? The best part of IE7 to me is the speed. Browsing is just faster in IE7 then in IE6.
So what if I have to learn a "new" location for a menu or title bar, a majority of things I don't ever use. Heck I keep hardly anything in my favorite as the sites that I visit frequently are in my history and i don't ahve to type as much.