CNET news does not recommend IE7 for daily use | The Coffeehouse

prog_dotnet

In this video CNET News.com's Joris Evers and CNET.com's Robert Vamosi discuss IE7 security.

Their argumentation is utterly biased and filled with harsh criticism, on the point of loosing objectivity..

to bad...: Perplexed

http://news.com.com/1606-2-6128041.html?tag=ne.fd.mnbc

eagle

CNet is in San Francisco, the crazy thing is that Microsoft sponsored the video of a radio show and the Tech Guy is never seen….LOL

littleguru
<3 Seattle

Haha. It's funny. They are not explaining, why security isn't good in IE. Then they compare a companies update system to a single product of another company... Weird stuff.

It's true that Microsoft should do updates like: 7.1, 7.2 etc instead of only changing the build numbers. But it doesn't make any difference: 90% of the people even don't know if it's IE7, IE6 or IE5. They don't care. It's only important that the thing works.

ploe

The reporter from CNET that interviewed me this past summer totally missed the boat. Seems like these guys don't have a full understaning of things either. Expressionless

They use the word "better" alot but they don't explain what makes a browser "better".

Why do they say IE7 is less secure than firefox? Is IE7 less sucure than firefox? How do you quantify that? [C]

WBurggraaf

Didn' t expect it of thos guys, they realy need a course what are browsers :O.

Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me

Well I personally dont think that IE7 is ready either. Many pages that render fine in IE6 and FF dont with IE7.

There is also a slight learning curve with the new interface. I'm so used to seeing a menu bar that without one makes things more difficult.

I'm guessing this is very apparent in Office 2007 with the ribbon bar instead of a menu.

Regards,
Vincent

Red5
Systems Manager Curmudgen

Xaero_Vincent wrote:

Well I personally dont think that IE7 is ready either. Many pages that render fine in IE6 and FF dont with IE7.

Can you provide some public examples?
I would like to see this myself for educational purposes.

mawcc
Make it so

Xaero_Vincent wrote:

Well I personally dont think that IE7 is ready either. Many pages that render fine in IE6 and FF dont with IE7.

There is also a slight learning curve with the new interface. I'm so used to seeing a menu bar that without one makes things more difficult.

I'm guessing this is very apparent in Office 2007 with the ribbon bar instead of a menu.

Regards,
Vincent

Pages is IE7 sometimes render incorrectly because the sites treat IE7 as IE6. It has nothing to do with IE7 not beeing "ready".

Yes, the interface changed. Some people will like it, some people don't. That's always the case with interface changes, and it also doesn't have anything to do with IE7 not beeing "ready".

littleguru
<3 Seattle

Xaero_Vincent wrote:
Well I personally dont think that IE7 is ready either. Many pages that render fine in IE6 and FF dont with IE7.

There is also a slight learning curve with the new interface. I'm so used to seeing a menu bar that without one makes things more difficult.

I'm guessing this is very apparent in Office 2007 with the ribbon bar instead of a menu.

Regards,
Vincent

I would at least expect this from a developer... As an IT pro you should understand that things change. That's even in real life... Things change, that's how things are made.

I think the new UI is more mature and easier to use then the old was... I think the old UI was clumpsy and overdone with buttons and stuff. It took me always a few minutes to customize IE to have it simple and easy. Those days are gone: finally.

Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me

littleguru wrote:

I would at least expect this from a developer... As an IT pro you should understand that things change. That's even in real life... Things change, that's how things are made.

I think the new UI is more mature and easier to use then the old was... I think the old UI was clumpsy and overdone with buttons and stuff. It took me always a few minutes to customize IE to have it simple and easy. Those days are gone: finally.

I'm not an IT pro yet but thanks for the compliment. Smiley

Regards,
Vincent

Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me

Well here is one:

http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki/Forums

The forums dont show up at all and the there are no frames around the text.

There was some minor glitches like improper text positioning and line breaks with some other pages like RapidEuphoria.com:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:7QpKMeEXSW0J:www.rapideuphoria.com/reg.htm+euphoria+instant+registration&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

This is a cached because this pages recently changed and doesnt show this issue anymore.

It seems pages that dont render correctly on IE6 dont on IE7 as well.

IE still fails the Acid2 test:

http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test1-1.html#top

To be fair, Firefox has rendering problems too. It sometimes doesnt properly embed objects like shockwave player on certain sites like Myspace. It fails to render some IE optimized pages like Microsoft's Windows Vista site.

Regards,
Vincent

Mark Brown
Microsoft Web Platform

What a completely useless report that was. All they did was sit around and moan about bash Microsoft but provided no specifics. It was like an echo chamber in there with those two guys feeding off each other.

Robert: "IE7 sucks"
Joris: "It sucks?"
Robert: "Yes it does"
Joris: "Yes, IE7 DOES suck"

Robert: "Firefox is great"
Joris: "It's great?"
Robert: "Yes, great"
Joris: "Yes, Firefox IS great"

Robert: "Yesssss"
Joris: "Yessss"

Big Smile

borosen

Mark Brown wrote:
What a completely useless report that was. All they did was sit around and moan about bash Microsoft but provided no specifics. It was like an echo chamber in there with those two guys feeding off each other.

Robert: "IE7 sucks"
Joris: "It sucks?"
Robert: "Yes it does"
Joris: "Yes, IE7 DOES suck"

Robert: "Firefox is great"
Joris: "It's great?"
Robert: "Yes, great"
Joris: "Yes, Firefox IS great"

Robert: "Yesssss"
Joris: "Yessss"

Totally agree.

I also think you are very generous to label it a report.

Phostenix

More Microsoft haters with microphones. Very sad.

"We don't like the new look, we don't like the way MS does updates, we don't think it's more secure...."

I think the success of Firefox is great for PC users since it HAS forced MS to improve IE. It's pathetic that so many people are unwilling to admit that MS has improved IE.

The only thing that would make these guys happy is if IE7 had no ActiveX capabilities & matched the look of FF. Then they'd declare it to still be inferior to Firefox because it's not open source.

File these guys in the big "Whatever" folder. Tongue Out

Grace and peace,

Steve

littleguru
<3 Seattle

Xaero_Vincent wrote:
Well here is one:

http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki/Forums

The forums dont show up at all and the there are no frames around the text.

There was some minor glitches like improper text positioning and line breaks with some other pages like RapidEuphoria.com:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:7QpKMeEXSW0J:www.rapideuphoria.com/...
This is a cached because this pages recently changed and doesnt show this issue anymore.

It seems pages that dont render correctly on IE6 dont on IE7 as well.

IE still fails the Acid2 test:

http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test1-1.html#top

To be fair, Firefox has rendering problems too. It sometimes doesnt properly embed objects like shockwave player on certain sites like Myspace. It fails to render some IE optimized pages like Microsoft's Windows Vista site.

Regards,
Vincent

1) I can see the forums. They are rendered fine.
2) No improper text placement found.
3) Firefox fails Acid2 too, btw Wink

For the compliment: you are welcome Smiley

Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me

littleguru wrote:

1) I can see the forums. They are rendered fine.

Check again using Firefox and IE7.

IE7 doesnt render the page frame properly nor does it link me to phpbb forums when I click them. I have to manually type the URL.

littleguru wrote:

2) No improper text placement found.

Yes there is. There is no line breaks in the paragraphs after the bulleted items. It shows breaks on Firefox and others.

littleguru wrote:

3) Firefox fails Acid2 too, btw

Correct. I seems to only show the happy face on Konqueror and Opera. I thought IE7 was suppost to be standards compliant? No?

Regards,
Vincent

z33driver

CNET is having problems. I was reading somewhere, I think Fast Company or Business 2.0 or TechCrunch...somewhere out there there is an article about how CNET's page views have dropped almost in half from Sept 05 to Sept 06.

littleguru
<3 Seattle

Xaero_Vincent wrote:
There was some minor glitches like improper text positioning and line breaks with some other pages like RapidEuphoria.com:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:7QpKMeEXSW0J:www.rapideuphoria.com/reg.htm+euphoria+instant+registration&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

It is exactly the same in both browser... I have them nearby... And I have scrolled the whole page. I see the line breaks, I see the bullets, I see the highlighting... I see everything.

One thing is different. This line:

With your Visa, MasterCard, American Express, Discover or Diner's Club Card, you can

is a little bit smaller in Firefox then in IE7.

littleguru
<3 Seattle

Xaero_Vincent wrote:
Well here is one:

http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki/Forums

After investing the markup of: http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=9356996acebc681f746e31b898545a69 (I have clicked the first link to the forum) it seems to me that those pages are different.

This is the page's markup in FF (first few lines):

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html dir="ltr">
<head>

And this is the page's markup in IE:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>

Those are only the first lines. Afterwards the markup is completely different.

As you can see they are different. Could it be that the forums are only shown in Firefox properly, as the page does a different redirect (internal) when browsing with Firefox?

Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me

littleguru wrote:
It is exactly the same in both browser... I have them nearby... And I have scrolled the whole page. I see the line breaks, I see the bullets, I see the highlighting... I see everything.

One thing is different. This line:

With your Visa, MasterCard, American Express, Discover or Diner's Club Card, you can

is a little bit smaller in Firefox then in IE7.

Regards,
Vincent

Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me

littleguru wrote:
After investing the markup of: http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=9356996acebc681f746e31b898545a69 (I have clicked the first link to the forum) it seems to me that those pages are different.

This is the page's markup in FF (first few lines):
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html dir="ltr">
<head>
And this is the page's markup in IE:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>

Those are only the first lines. Afterwards the markup is completely different.

As you can see they are different. Could it be that the forums are only shown in Firefox properly, as the page does a different redirect (internal) when browsing with Firefox?

Interesting... Could it be that your using Vista rather than XP?

I get this on both FF and IE7:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>

littleguru
<3 Seattle

I'm running Vista. Yes.

Back to the cached version of this other page... This is a problem of Firefox not rendering the thing properly!

Let's have a look at the markup:

 <tr>
 <td></td>
 <td align=left valign=top><img src="ball.gif" width=4 height=12></td>
 <td>
 For all platforms: elimination of the delay and message
 when your compiled program starts.
 </td>
 <td></td>
 </tr>
 <tr><td colspan=4> </td></tr>
 <tr>
 <td></td>
 <td align=left valign=top><img src="ball.gif" width=4 height=12></td>
 <td>
 For the DOS platform: an additional translator library that
 lets you run floating-point intensive code up to
 twice as fast as normal (requires a Pentium-class machine or higher).
 </td>
 <td></td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
 <td></td>
 <td colspan=2>

 
 With the Translator, you can convert any Euphoria program into
 a single .exe file that runs the same as with the interpreter, but
 typically 2x to 5x faster. You can also create Windows .dll and
 Linux/FreeBSD .so files written in Euphoria.
 <a href=e2c.htm>more details...</a>
 </td></tr>

Kind of old style. But we are not focusing on that.

Well. There is no reason to add the empty line underneath the enumeration.

As you can see we have 4 rows. Between the second and thirth they put a little row with only a space ( ) in it. It is done to have one empty line between single points of the enumeration (very very old style).

Between the thirth and fourth row this thing is missing: means there is no, absolutely no need to add an empty line. I don't know why Firefox is doing that.

I downloaded even the markup and removed the included CSS file, but it still did...

This is clearly a problem of Firefox. It's not appropriate to add an empty line here!

littleguru
<3 Seattle

Xaero_Vincent wrote:
littleguru wrote:

After investing the markup of: http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=9356996acebc681f746e31b898545a69 (I have clicked the first link to the forum) it seems to me that those pages are different.

This is the page's markup in FF (first few lines):

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html dir="ltr"> <head>
And this is the page's markup in IE:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>

Those are only the first lines. Afterwards the markup is completely different.

As you can see they are different. Could it be that the forums are only shown in Firefox properly, as the page does a different redirect (internal) when browsing with Firefox?
Interesting... Could it be that your using Vista rather than XP?

I get this on both FF and IE7:
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>

But again. Let's take Line 50 of the markup and post the following 4 lines of markup:

FF:

/* Main table cell colours and backgrounds */
td.row1	{ background-color: #EFEFEF; }
td.row2	{ background-color: #DEE3E7; }
td.row3	{ background-color: #D1D7DC; }

IE:

function actionsMenuInit(title) {
// Initiliaze action menu
for (i = 0; i < document.forms.length; i++) {

Those are two different pages! That's why they look different in both browsers. You can't compare two pages with different sources and say one or the other browser fails to render something.

Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me

littleguru wrote:
But again. Let's take Line 50 of the markup and post the following 4 lines of markup:

FF:
/* Main table cell colours and backgrounds */
td.row1	{ background-color: #EFEFEF; }
td.row2	{ background-color: #DEE3E7; }
td.row3	{ background-color: #D1D7DC; }
IE:

function actionsMenuInit(title) {
// Initiliaze action menu
for (i = 0; i < document.forms.length; i++) {

Those are two different pages! That's why they look different in both browsers. You can't compare two pages with different sources and say one or the other browser fails to render something.

I dont khow your getting that but I'm getting the same line 51 for both FF and IE:

"function actionsMenuInit(title) {"

Regards,
Vincent

Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me

littleguru wrote:

This is clearly a problem of Firefox. It's not appropriate to add an empty line here!

Hmm.. you might be right.

I'll go check Konqueror because it uses a different layout engine (KHTML) than Firefox (Gecko) and IE (Trident).

Regards,
Vincent