Whats bad with the Zune list | The Coffeehouse

prog_dotnet

I was considering buying a zune device, but you (ms) has really missed the target this time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/09/technology/09pogue.html?8dpc

1. You cant use Zune as an external hard drive
2. You cant subscribe or download podcasts at the zune store
3. Stripped down device, no games, alarm clock, stopwatch, world clock, password-protected volume limiter, equalizer, calendar, address book or notes module.
4. Miss out on the 3,000 iPod accessories
5. Over 80 percent of 2007 cars will have an iPod connector option, none have zune
6 . regid copy protection and drm. I dont mind paying for music, but it has to be flexible. Like half play of a song counts as "one play", not resend a song.
7 . wi-fi mess, Zunes can connect only to each other. Who’d build a Wi-Fi device that can’t connect to a wireless network — to sync with your PC, for example? Nor to an Internet hot spot, to download music directly?
8. the zune store doesn’t sell TV shows, movies or audio books
9. the zune store are much smaller than itunes, 2 mill vs 3-5 mill
10. the Zune store is also missing gift certificates, allowances, user-submitted playlists and so on
11. can’t use Windows Media Player to load the Zune with music ?? ( this must be wrong )
12. thicker (0.6 inch vs. 0.4), taller (4.4 inches vs. 4.1) and heavier (5.6 ounces vs. 4.8) (zune vs 30 gb ipod)
13. fm radio has week reception and you cant make recordings.

"

Competition is good and all. But what, exactly, is the point of the Zune? It seems like an awful lot of duplication — in a bigger, heavier form with fewer features — just to indulge Microsoft’s “we want some o’ that” envy. Wireless sharing is the one big new idea — and if the public seems to respond, Apple could always add that to the iPod."

So the question is..why should anyone buy a zune player ??

Xaero_Vincent
Sexy me

Zune is unlikely to gain anymore marketshare than all other iPod competitors. Although I don't have or endorse expensive music players, I do know that the iPod is fabricated in American and European pop culture. That penetration will prove difficult to break. Besides, Apple could very easily rival any offerings Microsoft might add to Zune and Urge.

I think Apple will do whatever it takes to fend off Microsoft and all other competitors. Afterall, the iPod and iTunes are Apple's biggest source of "bread & butter"; far more significant than their computer and software buisness.

Regards,
Vincent

jb43081

prog_dotnet wrote:
1. You cant use Zune as an external hard drive
2. You cant subscribe or download podcasts at the zune store
3. Stripped down device, no games, alarm clock, stopwatch, world clock, password-protected volume limiter, equalizer, calendar, address book or notes module.
4. Miss out on the 3,000 iPod accessories
5. Over 80 percent of 2007 cars will have an iPod connector option, none have zune
6 . regid copy protection and drm. I dont mind paying for music, but it has to be flexible. Like half play of a song counts as "one play", not resend a song.
7 . wi-fi mess, Zunes can connect only to each other. Who’d build a Wi-Fi device that can’t connect to a wireless network — to sync with your PC, for example? Nor to an Internet hot spot, to download music directly?
8. the zune store doesn’t sell TV shows, movies or audio books
9. the zune store are much smaller than itunes, 2 mill vs 3-5 mill
10. the Zune store is also missing gift certificates, allowances, user-submitted playlists and so on
11. can’t use Windows Media Player to load the Zune with music ?? ( this must be wrong )
12. thicker (0.6 inch vs. 0.4), taller (4.4 inches vs. 4.1) and heavier (5.6 ounces vs. 4.8) (zune vs 30 gb ipod)
13. fm radio has week reception and you cant make recordings.

Points 1, 3, 7, 11 and maybe 13 can be handled via firmware updates from Microsoft, which is my understanding they are planning to do. According to Gizmodo (I'm too lazy to find the specific link) they puposly "front-loaded" the hardware so that as they want to add new features all the have to do is update the software, the hardware is already set to go.

Points 2, 4, 5, 8, 9 and 10 are just silly considering it's a version one of a highly upgradeable product, and the iPod faced these same challenges when it came out.

Point 6 is something that can be addressed through software updates if it become an issue that stunts the Zune's growth.

And point 12 is kind of splitting hairs. I use my nano for running, and it's great. Yeah, a Zune is bigger, but I can't imagine it would make a huge difference when I run, let alone something less active.

My big knock agains the Zune, and it may come out in another version of it, is no flash memory. Again, I use my nano for running, so the flash memory is critical to avoid skips.

prog_dotnet wrote:
Competition is good and all. But what, exactly, is the point of the Zune? It seems like an awful lot of duplication — in a bigger, heavier form with fewer features — just to indulge Microsoft’s “we want some o’ that” envy. Wireless sharing is the one big new idea — and if the public seems to respond, Apple could always add that to the iPod."

What is the point of any competing product? To get some market share. And frankly, new competition breathes life into an otherwise stale market. As much as I love my nano, I do find some of the new Zune features attractive, and yeah, Apple can adopt them. But if there were no Zune, would they? Let's face it, pre-Zune there hasn't been much new and exciting in iPod land, save video and new colors. And until I see something offical from Apple, I don't count the iPhone. So, I think this is good for both companies.

prog_dotnet wrote:
So the question is..why should anyone buy a zune player ??

If the features offered by Zune that are not available on an iPod are important to someone, they should buy a Zune. It all comes down to the consumer and where they see value.

And don't take everythign you read in the NYT as gospel, they have their axes to grind just like everyone else...

Jorgie
Jorgie

1. - This really sucks. Hopefully they will change it
2. - True of V1.0, rumor says it will be in early 2007
3. - Except for the equalizer, why would I want those things on my music player? BTW, heard of XBox-live? I expect to see lots of downloads for the Zune over the next year. (When will Apple officially open the iPod to 3rd party developers? NEVER.)
4. - Duh. That is a stupid comment.
5. - I bet there will be a 3rd party adapter befor Xmas
6. - Yea, almost as restrictive as the iPod wich cannot share music AT ALL.
7. - Read their blog, this is just 'at launch'.
8. - Yet. iTMS didn't at launch either
9. - Again, so was iTMS at launch.
10. - Hello, let them get it up and running smoothly before they pile on features.
11. - Yep, seems stupid to me too.
12. - The size does not bother me, it is worth it for the bigger screen, WiFi and FM.
13. - Here is hoping they have FM recording soon! (As for the headphones acting as the antenna, that is normal.) And it is much better at pulling in FM than the iPod Tongue Out

Jorgie

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

It is David Pogue, after all...

Rossj

PaoloM wrote:
It is David Pogue, after all...

Hmm - what difference does that make? Are the points he made blatant lies? Or is it just the fact that he is giving it bad press that you object to?

phreaks

Apple controls too much of the Digital Music player market already.

It's going to be tough for competitors to compete without adding alot of innovation and value-added.

hmmm, maybe the DOJ will harp on apple now, that would be something, wouldn't it.

Not that I agree with it, but hey, what's good for the goose...

Harlequin
http://twitter.com/TrueHarlequin

Can't remember if the Zune has Bluetooth or not. Bad thing in my book if it doesn't, then I can't sync the Zune with my Tablet via Bluetooth.

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

Rossj wrote:

PaoloM wrote: It is David Pogue, after all...

Hmm - what difference does that make? Are the points he made blatant lies? Or is it just the fact that he is giving it bad press that you object to?

Some of his points are valid, but others are just misrepresentations.

For example, "5. Over 80 percent of 2007 cars will have an iPod connector option, none have zune". 80% is a nice round number that, however, has very little evidence to be real. Of all this 80%, how many have an iPod connector option and how many will just have a line in jack? Because the ones with a line connector jack are *gasp* "Zune-enabled"! Smiley

That said, I don't like the 3x3 limits on unprotected music transfers. That will have to be fixed ASAP.

PaoloM
Hypermediocrity

Harlequin wrote:
Can't remember if the Zune has Bluetooth or not. Bad thing in my book if it doesn't, then I can't sync the Zune with my Tablet via Bluetooth.

No bluetooth.

Detroit Muscle
Wii!

Did Microsoft learn from their Xbox 360 failures and hire thermal engineers for the Zune?

Detroit Muscle
Wii!

PaoloM wrote:
For example, "5. Over 80 percent of 2007 cars will have an iPod connector option, none have zune". 80% is a nice round number that, however, has very little evidence to be real. Of all this 80%, how many have an iPod connector option and how many will just have a line in jack? Because the ones with a line connector jack are *gasp* "Zune-enabled"!

That said, I don't like the 3x3 limits on unprotected music transfers. That will have to be fixed ASAP.

I work 20 feet from a bunch of the Siemens engineers and Harman-Becker engineers. They make the radios/in car entertainment systems/touch screen navigation systems. Their mp3 player holders are designed for the various Ipod form factors. Their mp3 docks are designed for that proprietary connector on the ipod. Their hard drive based car stereos are designed to sync music with an ipod.

Today, I asked them if the Zune would would be compatible with their docks. The answer I got from 100% of those I asked was "What is a Zune?"

Harlequin
http://twitter.com/TrueHarlequin

Detroit Muscle wrote:
Today, I asked them if the Zune would would be compatible with their docks. The answer I got from 100% of those I asked was "What is a Zune?"

I don't think Microsoft has been spending much of any money on the Zune right now. Haven't seen a TV commercial yet. Has anyone?

The "viral" websites only work if there are ads to them from everywhere. A link from Channel 9 will only do so much for a product Smiley

JKelley
Is it sad that my badge picture is one of the best ones I have of myself?

Harlequin wrote:

Detroit Muscle wrote: Today, I asked them if the Zune would would be compatible with their docks. The answer I got from 100% of those I asked was "What is a Zune?"

I don't think Microsoft has been spending much of any money on the Zune right now. Haven't seen a TV commercial yet. Has anyone?

The "viral" websites only work if there are ads to them from everywhere. A link from Channel 9 will only do so much for a product

I saw two different TV ads over the weekend for Zune, I think they were both on MTV but I don't remember. They weren't bad I thought. In fact, I thought considering our advertising track record they were VERY good. Smiley

jamie

Forbes: Zune Stinks

http://blogs.forbes.com/digitaldownload/2006/11/zune_stinks.html

blowdart
Peek-a-boo

jamie wrote:
Forbes: Zune Stinks

http://blogs.forbes.com/digitaldownload/2006/11/zune_stinks.html

You have to love someone that writes a review without having used it, by just rehashing what has been written about in blogs.

jamie

true but it is forbes ... and they arnt saying its not too good - they are saying it stinks!

id be worried if it was my product is the reason i posted the link

blowdart
Peek-a-boo

jamie wrote:
true but it is forbes ... and they arnt saying its not too good - they are saying it stinks!

Yea, without actually having seen it.

The NYC review is perhaps fairer.

As it turns out, the player is excellent. It can’t touch the iPod’s looks or coolness, but it’s certainly more practical. It’s coated in slightly rubberized plastic, available in white, black or brown — yes, brown. It won’t turn heads, but it won’t get fingerprinty and scratched, either. It sounds just as good as the iPod.

....

The big, whomping Zune news, though, is wireless sharing. The Zune has a built-in Wi-Fi antenna. (Turning it on costs you one hour of battery life.)
....

During the playback of any photo or song, you can view a list of Zunes within 30 feet. Sending a song takes about 15 seconds, a photo 2 seconds; you can’t send videos at all.
....

It all works well enough, but it’s just so weird that Zunes can connect only to each other. Who’d build a Wi-Fi device that can’t connect to a wireless network — to sync with your PC, for example? Nor to an Internet hot spot, to download music directly?

....

This copy protection is as strict as a 19th-century schoolmarm. Just playing half the song (or one minute, whichever comes first) counts as one “play.” You can never resend a song to the same friend. A beamed song can’t be passed along to a third person, either.

BryanF

jamie wrote:
true but it is forbes ... and they arnt saying its not too good - they are saying it stinks!

id be worried if it was my product is the reason i posted the link

Forbes is good for business analysis, but I wouldn't trust them for product reviews. The fact that the author's never even held the product makes me wonder why they'd even bother.

OTOH, I totally agree about with the criticism against Microsoft Points (dare I call it Monopoly Money? Big Smile

) It might be a nice alternative--especially for things like gift certificates--but why the hell shouldn't I be able to simply pay with a credit card?

staceyw
Before C# there was darkness...

jamie wrote:
Forbes: Zune Stinks

http://blogs.forbes.com/digitaldownload/2006/11/zune_stinks.html

I would not even repost such links when the author says " Zune

I say this having never actually used a Zune" How does that even get passed the editor?

staceyw
Before C# there was darkness...

Is it CE OS?

jamie

..i was only pointing out "forbes says zune stinks"

- yes its under blogs - not news
- yes the guy didnt use it

but he's based his opinion on the nyt article - and there is a blog headline out there now saying zune stinks

where is scoble when you need him Wink

martmart

I think you're correct. The Zune doesn't even match the features of the Store/iTunes/iPod triumvirate and the few differentiated features aren't compelling enough. Here's a somewhat longer list I've put together (with a few of your points added).

Pros:
- WiFi music sharing (though 50% of songs purchased by money.cnn.com reviewer on Zune store had sharing disabled)
- DJ mode for broadcasting what you're playing to other Zune users (actually, MS has dropped this feature - it could have been good)
- 3" screen vs 2.5" on iPod (though same 320 x 240 resolution so album art looks more blocky on Zune in portrait mode)
- Integration with Xbox 360 (iPod only works on Xbox with non-DRM music)
- FM Radio built-in ($49 option for iPod)
- Rubber-feel plastic case doesn't scratch as easily as Face of iPod Video
- Subscription option for music ($180 per year pretty expensive though for music that is deleted if offline for a month or cease subscription)
- Guest Synchronisation option to copy songs from other PC (but not back up to your PC)
- Attractive customisable background pictures and transparent menus

Cons:
- 46% larger volume than the 30GB iPod (13% larger than even the 80GB iPod)
- 35% thicker and 8% taller than the 30GB iPod
- 17% heavier than the 30GB iPod (1% heavier than the 80GB iPod)
- Zune Chunky vs slim and elegant iPod according to Wall Street Journal
- 2hrs less battery life than the 30GB iPod (in real-world tests)
- 12-14hrs battery life for Zune vs 20hrs for 80GB iPod or 24hrs for iPod Nano
- WiFi reduces battery life by 2hrs+ in real-world tests
- no WiFi to Computer or Internet only other Zune Players
- 5 buttons on imitation click-wheel instead of scroll wheel for navigation
- 2 million songs in Zune Marketplace vs 3.5 million on iTunes Store
- No TV shows in Zune Marketplace
- No Podcasts in Zune Marketplace
- No Music Videos in Zune Marketplace
- No Movies in Zune Marketplace
- No Audiobooks in Zune Marketplace
- No Games in Zune Marketplace
- No unlimited streaming music library sharing between computers on same subnet or wifi network unlike iTunes software
- Confusing points system for music purchase - $5 minimum purchase
- No Calendar on Zune so no calendar synching
- No Address Book on Zune so no contacts synching
- No Note viewing or synching on Zune
- No pre-installed games on Zune
- No Alarm Clock, No Stopwatch, no World Clock, No password-protected volume-limiter, No Equalizer,
- only ~100 accessories for Zune vs 3,000+ for iPod
- No auto integration for Zune vs 80% of new cars iPod dock connector compatible (not just audio connector)
- Zune adds yet another DRM standard to crowded field
- Zune not compatible with Plays For Sure so can't play music bought from Microsoft's own MSN music or other MS licensees (MS has knifed it's partners)
- Zune not compatible with Windows media player, the MS standard for MP3 player integration
- Zune Windows-only vs Windows and Mac compatible iPod
- half the songs ripped from CDs by money.cnn.com reviewer would not transfer to Zune Player
- 3 models (colours) of Zune vs Shuffle, 6 Nano models, 30GB Video iPod and 80GB Video iPod (plus Red and U2 versions of Nano and larger iPods)
- Fewer supported audio formats:
Zune: WMA, MP3, non-protected AAC
iPod: AAC, AIFF, Apple Lossless, MP3, WAV, Audible
- No USB Disk mode so can't use for file transfer/storage on PC
- plastic case on Zune vs metal case back for iPod or all-metal for Nano
- 3-day or 3 play limit on DRM and non-DRM shared music (even 1 second counts)
- No passing on shared music to a second Zune player
- no synching of purchased music from Zune up to other computer (new iPod feature)
- No equivalent to iTunes Gift certificates
- No equivalent to iTunes Allowances (monthly store credit for kids)
- No user-submitted playlists
- Weak FM radio reception
- No Recording
- Zune player and Zune Marketplace USA-only

-Mart

brian.shapiro
things go on as always

Even if the reviewer didn't use a product, as long as their facts were right, I would still treat their review seriously--that is, until they started to use hyperbolic statements like "it stinks". Stinks? what does that mean? What an emotional way of reviewing something you haven't used.

I like how people who do review it like to dredge up any points against Zune even if it really doesn't matter for marketability...

...like 'no podcasts'. You may use podcasts, and they do have an audience. But do you realize how many average iPod owners really care about podcasts? Very few.

If I bought it I wouldn't care so much about using it as a hard drive, either, except specifically for media files. I would want to be able to store all my images, videos, and music on it. But for anything else, why not be content with memory cards, or a real external hard drive? Its a misuse of the device, and it isn't inconvenient to use something else. The important thing about being able to use it as a hard drive, I guess, is the fact that the Zune software could always be updated to support more formats. I don't know how file transfers to the Zune are currently managed and restricted though.

Not that there aren't flaws with the Zune model. It would be better if it could connect to computers using wifi, if you could transfer non-copy protected songs without restrictions, if the transfer policy for protected songs weren't so stupid...

Kryptos
Backup People!

JKelley wrote:

Harlequin wrote:

Detroit Muscle wrote: Today, I asked them if the Zune would would be compatible with their docks. The answer I got from 100% of those I asked was "What is a Zune?"

I don't think Microsoft has been spending much of any money on the Zune right now. Haven't seen a TV commercial yet. Has anyone?

The "viral" websites only work if there are ads to them from everywhere. A link from Channel 9 will only do so much for a product

I saw two different TV ads over the weekend for Zune, I think they were both on MTV but I don't remember. They weren't bad I thought. In fact, I thought considering our advertising track record they were VERY good.

http://www.zune.net/en-us/mediaviewer/20061101-social-ads.htm