Slightly depressing day. | The Coffeehouse

Jack Poison
At what price, Freedom?

I just met up with a fairly large number of friends socially that I haven't seen in a while.. One is a dev type, the rest aren't. One thing they all had in common (at least over the last few years) were them all being PC users.

Interestingly enough, all of them are getting Macs this Christmas. Everyone of them.

I found this a bit depressing.. I guess it's a pride thing, being a windows user (since my contracts all require Windows work and will be for the foreseeable future) and all that.

It just had me thinking.

If this is in anyway indicative of the future, does Microsoft care about losing all of these customers to Apple (no one I know is switching to Linux, that I know of)? I came up with these scenarios. I'm sure there are more. I refer to these non-geek, non-business users as "family users".

1) Microsoft doesn't really care about the family users; the real money is made in businesses, which is where they will continue to focus. While Microsoft won't simply give up that marketshare, they're not willing to heavily invest in winning them back / keeping what they got.

2) Microsoft does care about the family users, but does not have the resources yet (due to everyone working on IE 7 / Vista / Longhorn Server / etc.) to win them back / keep what they have. Maybe we'll start seeing some neat things in the future on this.

3) Microsoft cares about the family users, and truely believes that Windows Vista will win the hearts and minds of the home users. (Homies?) If this is the case, they have done little to no marketing on this aimed towards this crowd. Ive said this before, has anyone seen or heard of a Marketing campaign aimed towards this crowd? I haven't.

4) Microsoft doesn't realize what's going on. They're too busy doing what they're doing to see this. Or they are choosing not to see it.

Regardless whether or not any of this is true, it seems that Microsoft, in general, is in a "reactive" state, not a "proactive" state. Internet Explorer is a great example of this: Microsoft pretty much wrote off IE (all the workers were assigned to be in other places) until Firefox came around and became popular. This is what I remembered reading. Maybe some Microsoft Employees can elaborate more on this. The Zune is another example.. The Zune is --mostly-- based upon an iPod, admit it or not. Vista as a whole was begun in response to emerging operating systems, namely OS X. Sure, there are things in Vista that were announced prior to OS X including them, but the need to re-do a lot of the OS is in response to something, not being proactive.

I think there are exceptions, like the X-Box 360, but I think in general, Microsoft is re-acting.

So, am I just being a 'downer'? Or do I actually make some points in this rant?

Jackson

jamie

for what it's worth - im going back to xp
ive had it with vista (ill spare the rant)

Cybermagellan
Live for nothing, or die for everything

Me on my Mac and Vista Ultimate on the desktop behind me to the left, to the right my girlfriends XP machine with her 23inch monitor.

CannotResolveSymbol
{insert caption here}

And how many of them are switching to Mac because they can finally dual boot/run windows in Parallels at native speed? Microsoft loses no sales or customers when people are still using Windows on their Macs.

It's Dell, HP, etc. that are the losers here.

JChung2006

It wouldn't be a bad thing if more users switched to Apple or other operating systems. Competition is a good thing -- which is why it also wouldn't be bad if more people bought Zunes either.

eagle

A good friend of mine broke my heart and got a Mac, then she went off to Collage.

A week later She sent me a note saying that iPhoto SSSUCKSSSASSS her word not mine, she also wanted to kick her Mac in it’s porthole!

Every time I’ve been in an Apple Store there is a long line of people waiting to get something fixed.

Jack Poison
At what price, Freedom?

CannotResolveSymbol wrote:
And how many of them are switching to Mac because they can finally dual boot/run windows in Parallels at native speed? Microsoft loses no sales or customers when people are still using Windows on their Macs.

It's Dell, HP, etc. that are the losers here.

I think it is the geeks that want to dual boot / run in Parallels, personally. Maybe not geeks, but the "power users" (no pun intended). Most people that I know (minus the dev) will not likely run in parallels / boot camp (what a sucky name).

But, the point remains, what is Microsoft's thinking with this, assuming my experience (and, I know of a few other people who have seen this trend independently) is indicative of the current state of affairs? Do they care or not? Do you think they have a plan that has some chance of success?

One last thought I had (and I'm not terribly serious): Maybe Microsoft wants Apple to increase marketshare, so the world might see a sizable amount of OS X "Exploits in the wild" (note, I'm not saying the word Virus here...).

SecretSoftware
Code to live, but Live to code.

jamie wrote:
for what it's worth - im going back to xp
ive had it with vista (ill spare the rant)

Care to Explain?

CannotResolveSymbol
{insert caption here}

JChung2006 wrote:
It wouldn't be a bad thing if more users switched to Apple or other operating systems. Competition is a good thing -- which is why it also wouldn't be bad if more people bought Zunes either.

Hmmm... maybe if Mac and Linux started gaining marketshare, Microsoft could actually start doing useful without fear of getting sued off the face of the earth for being a "monopoly". Tongue Out

jamie

SecretSoftware wrote:

jamie wrote: for what it's worth - im going back to xp
ive had it with vista (ill spare the rant)

Care to Explain?

laptop - no internet. didnt use it for a longtime - go to install xp on it today - "you need to activate - reduced functionality bla bla -" locked out - lost xp2 cd - have on drive - need to burn off laptop - vista wont burn image properly - laptop wont pick it up on boot - tried ultimate boot cd (downloaded it) ran it - no drive c: - cant figure it out - boot to safe mode w/command prompt.. cd i386/winnt - error ok - winnt32 - error - but goes through ..starts copying - misses some files - skip skip - restart - files missing - looping setup boot - go to tory xp machine with burner - go to copy nero - log into (c9)vista - you cant have no password - arg - go to c9 vista (me) - copy stuff to server - go back to tory - copy from server...

thats where im at
i - just - want - to - load - xp

SecretSoftware
Code to live, but Live to code.

jamie wrote:

SecretSoftware wrote:

jamie wrote: for what it's worth - im going back to xp
ive had it with vista (ill spare the rant)

Care to Explain?

laptop - no internet. didnt use it for a longtime - go to install xp on it today - "you need to activate - reduced functionality bla bla -" locked out - lost xp2 cd - have on drive - need to burn off laptop - vista wont burn image properly - laptop wont pick it up on boot - tried ultimate boot cd (downloaded it) ran it - no drive c: - cant figure it out - boot to safe mode w/command prompt.. cd i386/winnt - error ok - winnt32 - error - but goes through ..starts copying - misses some files - skip skip - restart - files missing - looping setup boot - go to tory xp machine with burner - go to copy nero - log into (c9)vista - you cant have no password - arg - go to c9 vista (me) - copy stuff to server - go back to tory - copy from server...

thats where im at
i - just - want - to - load - xp

Here is a tip that might help you.

When ever it says missing file xyz.sys or something eject the CD and insert it again. most of the time it will find the file and resume.

This happen because the error rate in writing data is not reduced. Use slow speeds when writing files.

Angus
.

I don't think all that many average users will move to Apple Macs, or Linux in the near future. Currently Windows operating systems are the most popular by a long way, and thus, people know them, and know how to work them a lot better; I doubt you will see many people deciding that using Mac OS X, or a distribution of Linux will be eqaul to using Windows XP for example.

The majority of people who buy computers from Dell, HP, etc. will continue to get Windows XP, Windows Vista, etc. pre-installed, and they are unlikely to reinstall the operating system. People who play games will use Windows operating systems, and people who need to run specific applications will probably run a Windows operating system due to compatibility.

I don't think Microsoft has anything to worry about, advertising Windows Vista doesn't have to be done too much, the computer manufacturers do that when they try to sell people the most expensive system they can (make most money), which in a few months time will run Windows Vista.

Angus Higgins

Dr Herbie
Horses for courses

I guess it's the home versus work markets.
Home users will like Macs because they appear to be easier to user (I haven't used a Mac since 1988, so I'm somewhat out of date). Frankly, if my mother came to me to ask what computer to buy, I'd probably tell her to get a Mac.
Business, on the other hand, uses Windows. They won't change because it would cost too much. They've already invested a lot of infrastructure and training. MS would have to screw-up Windows very badly to make business change.

If Macs got very popular, MS would start shipping more apps for them. I'd be happy to write Mac code if MS made a version of Visual Studio for OS X Big Smile

Herbie

Bas
It finds lightbulbs.

CannotResolveSymbol wrote:

Hmmm... maybe if Mac and Linux started gaining marketshare, Microsoft could actually start doing useful without fear of getting sued off the face of the earth for being a "monopoly".

I've been thinking that too. I think we could be seeing some amazing things if MS wasn't crippled by antitrust issues anymore.

Jack Poison
At what price, Freedom?

Bas wrote:

CannotResolveSymbol wrote:
Hmmm... maybe if Mac and Linux started gaining marketshare, Microsoft could actually start doing useful without fear of getting sued off the face of the earth for being a "monopoly".

I've been thinking that too. I think we could be seeing some amazing things if MS wasn't crippled by antitrust issues anymore.

I think that MS is crippled not because they are a monopoly, rather, they supposedly abused their monopoly to an unfair advantage.

Back to my original issue, I think it will be interesting to see at Christmas time how well PC sales do in comparison to Mac sales.

And whether or not Microsoft / Dell / HP / Sony do anything about it.

CodeMonkey666
Cylons.. Why debugging matters

Jack you have some very valid points that have crossed my mind more than a few times. The guy in the next cube to me just got a Mac laptop for music and writing plays. His grandson had a Mac and he liked the "percieved" ease of use and creative cache(sp) that goes with it.

One of my friends and I were talking (both of us .net programmers) about how there should be a tablet type device just for web surfing at home. I want a TPC for work but he only wants a cheap tablet to surf from his couch. The Mira was looking to be this but It was expensive and got axed.

I think simple web appliances with less functionality are the untapped frontier. How about a simple spreadsheet and word processor in your linksys router for home to use with that browser tablet?

My bread and butter comes from working with Windows apps. But a rethink of things may be in order. If you try to please everyone you end up with a monster app.

The old saying is “A camel is a horse designed by commite”.

Don't get me wrong innovation and more features are great but some market segments may need a different approach.

eagle

It’s always darkest before the dawn…..

I predict Apple’s Market share will begin to drop by Q2 ’07.

Jack Poison
At what price, Freedom?

eagle wrote:
It’s always darkest before the dawn…..

I predict Apple’s Market share will begin to drop by Q2 ’07.

I'm curious, why do you say this? I haven't heard anything that would make me think this and This Person hasn't said anything about it, either.

Jackson

eagle

Once Intel releases the new mobile chipset in Q1 ’07 PC laptops will be lighter, faster and much cheaper then Macs.

These new machines will all be preloaded with Windows Vista and new GPU’s that support DirectX 10.

Harlequin
http://twitter.com/TrueHarlequin

eagle wrote:
Once Intel releases the new mobile chipset in Q1 ’07 PC laptops will be lighter, faster and much cheaper then Macs.

These new machines will all be preloaded with Windows Vista and new GPU’s that support DirectX 10.

I thought Apple uses Intel now. Why couldn't they use Intel in their own laptops?

Nitz Walsh

eagle wrote:
Once Intel releases the new mobile chipset in Q1 ’07 PC laptops will be lighter, faster and much cheaper then Macs.

These new machines will all be preloaded with Windows Vista and new GPU’s that support DirectX 10.

Uh...you do know Apple desktops and laptops use Intel chipsets and CPU's and have for some time...right?

eagle

Yes we all know that Apple now uses Intel and pigs are flying, but tell me how much do they charge?

Will Apple now ship with Windows Vista?

KosherCoder

jamie wrote:
thats where im at
i - just - want - to - load - xp

I feel the pain.

I migrated two of my machines to Vista: a desktop and my tablet. Both fairly high end machines. Both are back with XP after months of fighting Vista RC1 through RTM.

I'm sure to get Vista preloaded on my next new machines. Hopefully, the experience will be better.

Cornelius Ellsonpeter

eagle wrote:
Once Intel releases the new mobile chipset in Q1 ’07 PC laptops will be lighter, faster and much cheaper then Macs.

By "lighter, faster" are you saying that if each model is thrown thrown like a Frisbee®, the PC laptop will fly farther? Are you willing to test this and post the results here?

Jack Poison
At what price, Freedom?

eagle wrote:
Once Intel releases the new mobile chipset in Q1 ’07 PC laptops will be lighter, faster and much cheaper then Macs.

These new machines will all be preloaded with Windows Vista and new GPU’s that support DirectX 10.

I'm afraid that I agree with the others: why can't Apple use the new mobile chip set?

And, probably more important, why would a chipset be a 'deciding factor' in what mom, pop, and the other family members buying a PC vs. Mac?